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Author Topic: Another R1b1 from Italy  (Read 799 times)
Maliclavelli
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« on: May 03, 2014, 01:37:36 AM »

I'll write about the last paper of Sarno et al. 2014, but I want to signal this R1b1*:
  Pop.   DYS393   DYS390   DYS19   DYS391   DYS385a   DYS385b   DYS439   DYS389I   DYS392   DYS389II  DYS458  DYS437  DYS448  GATAH4  DYS456  DYS438  DYS635  HG-SNP

  EN   13   23   14   11   14   16   11   13   13   30   16   14   19   12   15   11   23   R-M343(xM269,M18)

I have spoken a lot about the Italian R1b1/L389*, I'd say against all. Only recently Mangino has been verified R1b1/L389* through a Geno 2.0, even though not yet put amongst them.
I'll write about the paper and the presumed link with Balkans (the other places are in line with geography) if taken for very old, but they should taken into account the Arbereshe presence, documented in a little percentage of the autosome in some places of South Italy.
I let you note that Enna is an isolate place in central Sicily, which probably maintains the most ancient pool of Sicily and of Italy.
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Maliclavelli


YDNA: R-S12460


MtDNA: K1a1b1e

Maliclavelli
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« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2014, 01:48:04 AM »

Of course for DYS385=14-16, DYS437=14, DYS448=19 and DYS635=23 it is very likely that this sample is an R-V88+. I see that they tested M18, but not V88. Work of hobbyists.
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Maliclavelli


YDNA: R-S12460


MtDNA: K1a1b1e

Maliclavelli
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« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2014, 04:05:15 AM »

Of course 16 haplotypes from P (probably one Q hg.) to R-P312 out of 119 aren't a few in places believed different from Central-North Italy:
 
SSI014   CS*    12   24   15   11   11   14   14   13   13   29   18   14   19   12   15   12   24   R1b1b2-M269 (xP311)                                                                                                                                      
SSI017   CS   12   24   14   11   10   14   12   13   13   29   18   15   19   12   15   12   23   R-M269(xP311)                                                                                                                                      
SSI036   CS   13   24   14   10   11   14   12   15   12   31   18   14   18   11   16   12   24   R-P312(xU152,L21,SRY2627)                                                                                                                                      
SSI038   CS   13   24   14   11   11   14   12   13   13   29   16   15   19   11   15   12   24   R-P312(xU152,L21,SRY2627)                                                                                                                                      
SSI043   CS   12   23   14   11   11   14   12   13   13   29   17   15   19   12   16   12   23   R-M269(xP311)                                                                                                                                      
SSI052   EN   13   22   13   10   15   17   11   13   15   28   18   14   19   10   15   11   22   P-M45(xM173)                                                                                                                                      
SSI058   EN   14   24   14   10   11   14   12   13   13   30   16   15   19   12   15   12   24   R-P312(xU152,L21,SRY2627)                                                                                                                                      
SSI059   EN   13   23   14   11   14   16   11   13   13   30   16   14   19   12   15   11   23   R-M343(xM269,M18)                                                                                                                                      
SSI068   EN   13   23   14   11   12   14   12   13   13   29   17   15   19   12   16   12   23   R-P312(xU152,L21,SRY2627)                                                                                                                                      
SSI080   EN   13   25   14   11   12   15   12   13   13   29   16   15   19   12   17   12   23   R-M269(xP311)                                                                                                                                      
SSI082   EN   13   24   15   11   11   17   12   12   13   28   17   15   19   11   16   12   23   R-P312(xU152,L21,SRY2627)                                                                                                                                      
SSI087   TP   14   24   14   11   11   12   12   14   13   30   17   15   19   12   14   11   23   R-P312(xU152,L21,SRY2627)                                                                                                                                      
SSI093   TP   12   23   14   11   11   14   13   13   13   29   16   15   19   12   15   12   23   R-M269(xP311)                                                                                                                                      
SSI107   TP   12   23   14   11   11   14   12   14   15   29   17   15   19   12   15   12   23   R-M269(xP311)                                                                                                                                      
SSI115   TP   14   25   14   10   11   14   13   14   13   30   18   15   19   12   16   13   23   R-P312(xU152,L21,SRY2627)                                                                                                                                      
SSI116   TP   13   24   15   11   11   14   13   13   13   29   18   14   18   11   15   12   23   R-P312(xU152,L21,SRY2627)                                                                                                                                    

Beyond these:
5 R1a-M17
3 R-U106
1 R-SRY2627
1 R-L21
3 R-U152
14 R-L2
i.e. 42 hg. R out of 119 =  35.29%

« Last Edit: May 03, 2014, 04:09:19 AM by Maliclavelli » Logged

Maliclavelli


YDNA: R-S12460


MtDNA: K1a1b1e

Maliclavelli
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« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2014, 08:20:51 AM »

There is also a crushing case of R-L277:

SSI107 TP 12 23 14 11 11 14 12 14 15 29 17 15 19 12 15 12 23 R-M269(xP311)
 
like those of Mattoli (I am waiting for his result from FTDNA I paid 49$ for from 1.17.2014, but I know it is that also without the FTDNA's labs: see the Marks' result) and all the other linked Italians.
I have spoken a lot about these Italian R-L277 on Anthrogenica.
1 sample out of 119 is astonishingly.
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Maliclavelli


YDNA: R-S12460


MtDNA: K1a1b1e

Maliclavelli
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« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2014, 08:38:59 AM »

This is a comparison:
SSI107 TP 12 23 14 11 11 14 12 14 15 29 17 15 19 12 15 12 23 R-M269(xP311)
Mattoli     12 26 14 11 11 15 13 12 15 27 15 15 19 11 16 12 na R-L277
B5QG9   Mattoli   Bevagna, Umbria, Italy    
12   26   14   11   11   15   12   12   13   12   15   27   15   9   10   11   11   26   15   19   29   15   16   16   18   11   11   19   23   16   15   19   18   35   37   13   12
So to the other clusters of R-L277 found in Italy:
13 14 28
12 14 27
14 14 29
12 15 27
13 15 28
we may add
14 15 29
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Maliclavelli


YDNA: R-S12460


MtDNA: K1a1b1e

Maliclavelli
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« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2014, 08:52:18 AM »

This hg. Q is in line with other Italian Q:
SSI052   EN   13   22   13   10   15   17   11   13   15   28   18   14   19   10   15   11   22   P-M45(xM173)     

237760    Luigi D'Orazio, b.a. 1770 Serramonacesca, Italy    Italy    Q-L245    
13    21    13    10    13-16    12    12    12    13    15    30    17    9-10    11    11    25    14    19    29    14-15-15-16    10    9    19-19    15    14    17    16    34-37    12    11    11    8    15-17    8    10    10    8    9    11    0    22-22    17    11    12    12    17    9    12    22    16    14    12    11    13    10    12    13    12                                            
N97445  Italy    -    
13    22    13    10    14-16    12    12    13    13    15    29          
95307    Biondo (Sicily, Italy)    Italy    Q-L245    
13    22    13    10    15-17    12    12    12    13    15    29    16    9-9    11    11    25    14    19    30    14-15-16-16    10    9    19-19    16    14    17    15    33-38    12    11    11    8    15-17    8    10    10    8    12    11    0    22-22    16    11    12    12    18    8    12    23    16    14    12    11    13    10    12    13    13                                            
N20234  Coccoluto; ; Gaeta, Italy Italy    Q-M143    
13    22    14    10    16-18    12    10    11    14    17    31          
136212    Italy    -    
13    22    14    10    17-18    12    10    12    13    16    29                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      
           
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Maliclavelli


YDNA: R-S12460


MtDNA: K1a1b1e

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