World Families Forums - L21/S145 About 24% in Val Gardena in the South Tyrol

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Author Topic: L21/S145 About 24% in Val Gardena in the South Tyrol  (Read 476 times)
rms2
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« on: December 14, 2013, 11:10:57 AM »

Here's something interesting that just caught my eye. In a new paper on the genetic structure of Alpine linguistic groups, the sample from the Gardena Valley (Val Gardena) in the South Tyrol in northern Italy was 23.5% L21+ (S145+). The sample size was 51, so that's nothing to sneeze at. These folks are Ladin speakers. Ladin is a Romance language, so it seems likely they are descendants of Romanized Celts.

Here's the link to the paper:

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0081704#pone.0081704.s012
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rms2
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« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2013, 11:42:05 AM »

Interestingly, L21 is the most frequent y haplogroup in Val Gardena, followed by R1b-L51* (S167) at 17.6% and J2a-M410 at 15.7%. U152, generally the most common y haplogroup in the Alpine region, is relatively low in Val Gardena, at 8% (combining the paper's L2/S139 frequency to its U152/S28 frequency for Val Gardena).
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SEJJ
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« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2013, 02:59:44 PM »

Interestingly, L21 is the most frequent y haplogroup in Val Gardena, followed by R1b-L51* (S167) at 17.6% and J2a-M410 at 15.7%. U152, generally the most common y haplogroup in the Alpine region, is relatively low in Val Gardena, at 8% (combining the paper's L2/S139 frequency to its U152/S28 frequency for Val Gardena).

Interesting. So it's more just a general Italo-Celtic group that for some reason became massively over-represented in parts of NW Europe (of course the British Isles and parts of northern France).
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Y-DNA: I1*
MT-DNA: U5a1b4
       
rms2
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« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2013, 03:04:15 PM »

Interestingly, L21 is the most frequent y haplogroup in Val Gardena, followed by R1b-L51* (S167) at 17.6% and J2a-M410 at 15.7%. U152, generally the most common y haplogroup in the Alpine region, is relatively low in Val Gardena, at 8% (combining the paper's L2/S139 frequency to its U152/S28 frequency for Val Gardena).

Interesting. So it's more just a general Italo-Celtic group that for some reason became massively over-represented in parts of NW Europe (of course the British Isles and parts of northern France).

I suspect P312 is mostly Celtic, with certain subclades prevalent in some areas. L21 tends to prevail in NW Europe, while U152 prevails in Central Europe.

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OConnor
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« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2014, 12:39:59 AM »

The Green Hills of Tyrol

There was a soldier, a Scottish soldier
Who wandered far away and soldiered far away
There was none bolder with good broad shoulder
He fought many affray, and fought and won

He’d seen the glory, he’d told the story
Of battles glorious and deeds victorious
But now he’s sighing, his heart is crying
To leave those green hills of Tyrol

(Chorus)Because those green hills are not highland hills
Or the island hills, they’re not my land’s hills
And fair as these green foreign hills may be
They are not the hills of home

And now this soldier, this Scottish soldier
Who wandered far away and soldiered far away
Sees leaves are falling, and death is calling
And he will fade away in that far land

He called his piper, his trusty piper
And bade him sound a lay
A pibroch sad to play
Upon a hillside, a Scottish hillside
Not on those green hills of Tyrol

(Chorus)

And now this soldier, this Scottish soldier
Will wander far no more and soldier far no more
And on a hillside, a Scottish hillside
You’ll see a piper play his soldier home

He’s seen the glory, he’s told the story
Of battles glorious and deeds victorious
The bugle’s ceased now, he is at peace now
Far from those green hills of Tyrol

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R1b1a2a1a1b4


R-DF13**(L21>DF13)
M42+, M45+, M526+, M74+, M89+, M9+, M94+, P108+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, P311+, P312+, P316+, M173+, M269+, M343+, P312+, L21+, DF13+, M207+, P25+, L11+, L138+, L141+, L15+, L150+, L16+, L23+, L51+, L52+, M168+, M173+, M207+, M213+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M343+, P69+, P9.1+, P97+, PK1+, SRY10831.1+, L21+, L226-, M37-, M222-, L96-, L193-, L144-, P66-, SRY2627-, M222-, DF49-, L371-, DF41-, L513-, L555-, L1335-, L1406-, Z251-, L526-, L130-, L144-, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195-, L96-, DF21-, Z255-, DF23-, DF1-, Z253-, M37-, M65-, M73-, M18-, M126-, M153-, M160-, P66-

12 24 14 10 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29 18


rms2
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« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2014, 09:07:54 PM »

There is an interesting new L21+ DF13- result today: Bigazzi, kit 267719, whose y-dna mdka was born in Certignano, Italy. He has no matches at 67 or 37 markers.

Of course, Bigazzi has not yet been tested for DF63 (he has it on order, though).
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