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Author Topic: Why Romitti  (Read 661 times)
Maliclavelli
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« on: October 23, 2013, 09:04:45 AM »

Why Romitti has nothing to do with the cluster where he has been put? This cluster should be R-L23/Z2103/Z2105+ with a back mutation in L150, i.e. L150-, but only he and Seymour are tested L150-. The others are L150+. If they are put together for similar values which should be a cluster, whereas the others are very close, Romitti has:
DYS389II=30 against 29
DYS458=16 against 17
DYS459b=10 against 9
DYS447=25 against 24
DYS437=15 against 16
DYS464=14-15-16-18 against 14-15-17-17
H4=12 against 11
DYS576=16 against 17
DYS534=15 against 14
DYS481 =21 against 23
DYS572=11 against 12

One of them (Ware: 247019) has been tested for Geno 2.0 and has resulted CTS7822+, i.e. Z2110+.

That they all have a Gypsy origin is possible, but certainly this haplotype has introgressed in the Balkans, but the haplotype of Romitti is certainly more ancient than the hypothesized time of introgression. Then the MRCA should be different and we don't understand why they are put together.
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Maliclavelli


YDNA: R-S12460


MtDNA: K1a1b1e

dseymour
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« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2013, 02:59:12 PM »

My 23&Me (v2) results are L150 TT.  My Geno2 results are L150 TT.  I ordered FTDNA's specific SNP test for L150 and it came back as L150-. 

As I understand it, C is ancestral for L150.  It is interesting to me that Romitti's 23&me result for L150 is reported as CC.

Perhaps  Geno2 results are not reliable for L150 similar to 23&me's v2 warning for L150.

Both my 23&me and Geno2 results are posted (refer below) and my Geno2 results have been transferred to FTDNA.  I have listed my FTDNA tested SNP's prior to my Geno2 below.  (My deep clade testing was dated Jan 2008.)

Based on my DYS GD's most of the individuals in my Ht35 project group suggest a common ancestor in the general range of 1000 to 1500 AD, while  Romitti's DYS GD is
likely closer to the 0 / 400 AD period. Since most are tested L150+ it seems logical to me that if I am in fact L150- then it's most likely because my L150 result is a back mutation.

My Geno2 results says I am CTS7822+ (Z2110+).  Is the game still on?
Confused. 

As a side issue why don't more people make use of Krahn's yMatch ( http://www.dna-fingerprint.com ).

Regards,
Denny Seymour
ySearch RAQ2J

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http://daver.info/ysub/
http://itai.perez.free.fr/GenoCompare/
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Y_DNA-Forums_R-RM269.xls (selected portion)
R-M269   
rs9785831      L150 (R1b1a2a1) [WARNING: v2/v3 inconsistent results]
Position   10618791
Status   v2 only
Ancestral   C
----------   ---
Romitti   CC
Seymour   TT
*****
L138+;L23+;L405+;L49+;M173+;M207+;M269+;M343+;P25+;P297+;Z2103+;Z2105+;L11-;L150-;L151-;L176.2-;L189-;L216-;L277-;L50-;L51-;L52-;L584-;M126-;M153-;M160-;M18-;M222-;M335-;M37-;M65-;M73-;P107-;P310-;P311-;P312-;P66-;SRY2627-;U106-;U152-;U198-;V88-;[FTDNA as of 2013Sep15]
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John( -1605)*, Robert (1573-1637)**, Richard-1 (1604-1655)***, John-2, John-3,Timothy-4, Allyn-5, Allyn-6, Rodney-7, Alphonso Hannibal-8, Alphonso Sherwood-9, Allyn Henry-10, Denny Richard-11 Seymour   * of Sawbridgeworth, England  ** Sawbridgeworth, England *** died  Norwalk, CT USA.
Maliclavelli
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« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2013, 09:51:02 AM »

It seems clear to me that amongst the people comprised in this L150- cluster in the "ht 35 FTDNA Project" and I have many times declared has no reason to be there are at least three groups:
N37658 Romitti, who retains the ancestral modals ( I give them in series),:
8 10 10 8 10 10
11 13 11 11 12 12
16 10 12 12 14
One first subclade is that which comprises 47778, 107114, 237225:
8 10 10 8 10 10
11 13 12 11 12 12
16 10 12 12 15
and lastly these samples: 247019, 16910, 64409, 108347:
8 11 10 8 10 11
11 13 12 11 12 12
16 10 12 12 15.
It is clear that Ware and Seymour belong to the same cluster, in fact they have been  found by Geno 2.0 to be R-CTS7822/Z2110+. It will be interesting to test the other clusters to ascertain till is deepen the mutation Z2110. It is possible that they all belong to the R-L23 East European cluster and are all Z2110+. It is possible that they belong to a Gypsy ancestry introgressed from East Europe.
Anyway the L150- of Seymour and Romitti aren't on the same plane. They could be independent, because anyone of the intermediate cluster gets it. It is also possible that Romitti doesn't belong to this cluster and that his L150- is ancient and original, like I hoped when it was found for the first time, linking it to an origin in Italy of the haplogroup. Of course only next exams (Geno 2.0 or others) will be able to respond these questions.
These are samples of Z2110+ to exam:

What in formation is needed for a project manager to push the SNP request button for CTS7822/Z2110?
    A total of ten kits have tested CTS7822+ and seven of those nine tested CTS9219+.
    CTS7822*
    247019 CTS7822+ N. Carolina, USA str111
    N29277 CTS7822+ Italy
    N115176/N98739 CTS7822+, L584- Greece**

    CTS7822>CTS9219*
    257843 CTS7822+, CTS9219+, Z2103+, Z2105+ Unknown/Jewish Project str111
    N115142 CTS7822+, CTS9219+ Germany
    N114393 CTS7822+, CTS9219+ Unknown/White Surname Project
    N112689 CTS7822+, CTS9219+ Russia
    N115870 CTS7822+, CTS9219+ France
    N116170 CTS7822+, CTS9219+ Greece
    278024 CTS7822+, CTS9219+ Poland

« Last Edit: November 17, 2013, 12:32:24 PM by Maliclavelli » Logged

Maliclavelli


YDNA: R-S12460


MtDNA: K1a1b1e

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