World Families Forums - P310* - (U106- P312-) New Sub Clades

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Author Topic: P310* - (U106- P312-) New Sub Clades  (Read 1294 times)
Adrian Ballard
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« on: September 30, 2013, 05:34:50 PM »

R1b1a2a1a1 R-L11* (P310*) or L11+ U106- P312-

Great progress is being made with origins and discovery of new sub clades to this rare group by current members

If you are in this tested group and would like to join us you would be very welcome to participate

https://www.facebook.com/groups/R1b1a2a1a1

http://www.worldfamilies.net/surnames/r1b1a2a1a
« Last Edit: October 28, 2013, 06:33:05 PM by Adrian Ballard » Logged

R1b1a2a1a1*   R1b-L11*    P310+ U106- P312-
Ancestry - John Ballard b. abt 1480 Herefordshire, England, Uk.
rms2
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« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2013, 07:46:27 PM »

I just heard of a new one: DF100, which is L11+ and parallel to both P312 and U106. In other words, it is a third division of L11.

It was found in a sample from Kent, England, two from the USA, and in 12 from the Genome of the Netherlands Project.

Richard Rocca announced this news over at Anthrogenica.
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Maliclavelli
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« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2013, 09:50:09 PM »

I just heard of a new one: DF100, which is L11+ and parallel to both P312 and U106. In other words, it is a third division of L11.

It was found in a sample from Kent, England, two from the USA, and in 12 from the Genome of the Netherlands Project.

Richard Rocca announced this news over at Anthrogenica.

This could be very interesting. I agreed with ballardgen's hypothesis that his R-L11* was of Italian origin but from a Langobard descent and this could explain the rarity of R-L11* in Italy and this was a lack in my theory of the Italian Refugium, but I have posted some posts also about very varied Italian R-L11*, and my hypothesis was that these samples were the witness of the most ancient R-L11* from the Italian Refugium. If these "German" R-L11* were actually" R-DF100* and the Italian R-L11+/DF100-, this could be good for me.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2013, 10:31:59 PM by Maliclavelli » Logged

Maliclavelli


YDNA: R-S12460


MtDNA: K1a1b1e

Adrian Ballard
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« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2013, 02:43:12 PM »

Over at Adrians P310*/L11* site we are exploring possibilities of probable movements between the three main hot-spots identified in the N.Myres et al study from 2010. We are using it because we have not found anything else we could start with.

The 3 hot spots are

#1 with ests of up to 10% - the Sth Baltic (eastern Denmark, sth Sweden (Skaane), and old Pomerania/ Prussia (to what is now Kalingrad). We note that they also show small %s in Jutland (old Jutland/Slesvig).

#2 the sth alps (Switzerland/Italy) in what was old Burgundy and Old Lombardy, and

#3 what may be the most recent hot-spot of the Midlands in England ( centered clearly on the old Danelaw).

We have been able to match historical migration records from Skaane to Lomabardy by the Langobardi and similar migration from Sth Baltic of the Burgundians where one group remained behind on the Sth Baltic Danish island of Bornholm (Burgenda Holme). We also have some pretty potent information showing the Danish incursions into England between 950AD and 1035AD and in particular how King Canute (Knut) assembled his 1015 invasion army in Skaane. That event postdates the establishment of the Danelaw but serves to reinforce the possibilities for Sth Baltic P310*/L11* movement from Scandanavia into England. We have some interesting family name possibilities that further reinforce this.

Because there is so little data available on P310*/L11* we had begun to build our own apparent sub-clades as we are finding a range of variations.

We accept the current pathway from Anatolia/Armenia that places the evolved P310*/L11* peoples in the area of Germany and Sth Baltic. So We think we can show quite a good story for later movement from the Sth Baltic to the other 2 hotspots.

It does seem possible that we could be starting with a hypothetical Sth Baltic Modal Haplotype (our conjecture based on current research).

Posted on behalf of Douglas Stuart Marker - one of our group members
https://www.facebook.com/groups/R1b1a2a1a1/
« Last Edit: October 02, 2013, 06:58:48 PM by ballardgen » Logged

R1b1a2a1a1*   R1b-L11*    P310+ U106- P312-
Ancestry - John Ballard b. abt 1480 Herefordshire, England, Uk.
Adrian Ballard
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« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2013, 06:56:44 PM »

We are currently waiting for FTDNA to get back to us so we can start our specific project where we can begin to share our findings -

The ht35 project that was supposed to represent us - has many areas of incorrect data due to Geno 2. results not being studied closely and realization that FTDNA transferred data is wrongly translated and many of us entered there as P310* are not truly so -

In the meantime you are welcome to join us at

https://www.facebook.com/groups/R1b1a2a1a1/
« Last Edit: October 02, 2013, 06:57:28 PM by ballardgen » Logged

R1b1a2a1a1*   R1b-L11*    P310+ U106- P312-
Ancestry - John Ballard b. abt 1480 Herefordshire, England, Uk.
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« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2013, 07:46:47 PM »

To our P310*/L11* friends (and other interested parties).

One designator we are seeing is the R-CTS4528 one from natgeo2.  If anyone can relate this to DF100 that would be very helpful.  FtDNA don't appear to recognise R-CTS4528. I tried to contact Chris Tyler Smith to get clarification from him but never heard back.

Also, does anyone have any thoughts on the Morely predictor program (Chris Morley's experimental program that we have been using to look at natgeo2 data). Thus far it seems to be ok but it did appear to place R-CTS4528 under P312 rather than P310* in the PDF copy of his experimental tree.

DSM
« Last Edit: October 02, 2013, 07:53:36 PM by dsm » Logged

dsm - Sydney Australia
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« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2013, 11:15:40 PM »

We accept the current pathway from Anatolia/Armenia that places the evolved P310*/L11* peoples in the area of Germany and Sth Baltic.


I remember to you all what I wrote here (thread: R-L11 in Italy):

Now the few Italian R-L11 (and some could be amongst the Italians tested by SMGF I put on ySearch, but about them there isn’t the certitude of the SNP test) are just outliers amongst the R-L11 known.

This sample from Boattini’s:

DYS390=25
DYS391=12
DYS388=14
DYS389I=12
DYS448=20
H4=12
DYS438=13
DYS635=24

And here are the Zohrab's values from Armenia:
N9165    Zohrab b Erevan, Armenia ca 1580 d New Julfa 1620    Armenia    R1b1a2a1a1
14    24    15    10    10-14    12    12    12    13    13    30    16    9-10    11    11    24    14    19    27    15-15-17-17    11    11    19-23    15    15    16    17    36-39    12    12    11    9    15-16    8    10    10    8    10    10    12    23-23    17    10    12    12    16    8    12    22    20    13    12    11    13    11    11    12    12
 
In the "ht 35 FTDNA Project" there is this only R-L11 and no R-L51, whereas Italy had probably the highest percentage of this haplogroup. I agree that probably R-L11 (but there is the possibility that they are all R-DF100) is linked with Germans, but not that R-L51 and R-L11 came from Armenia. All this could be the witness that the Armenian R-L23 came from the Balkans (and before from Italy) with the first migrations of Indo-Europeans, but the subclades didn't reach the Caucasus.                                                                                                                                                                                                                          
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Maliclavelli


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MtDNA: K1a1b1e

Adrian Ballard
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« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2013, 04:57:54 PM »

R-P310* L11* (negative - P312 & U106-) South Baltic Modal Haplotype

This is a closed genealogy group for those who are interested in tracing there family origins further back and have taken a Ydna deep clade test and have tested R1b1a2a1a R-L11* (P310*) or L11+ (negative P312- & U106) - Family members or representatives of those tested may also be welcome if participation will help further our research - Please fell free to share any information, pictures, thoughts or stories that you may feel relevant - We are here for a common goal so please don't be afraid to ask questions. - can you confirm your test results by return message or web link before your membership is approved.

In support of the purpose of the group, we are especially interested in anyone who is P 310*/L11* who knows their ancestral lineage in Europe. This information helps us identify historical movements of people from areas considered 'hot-spots' for P310*/L11* DNA.

Our current starting point is evolving as the Sth Baltic region and we have been able to gather from multiple sources, evidence of tribal/group movements from the Sth Baltic to the other 2 best known P310*/L11* hot-spots of Sth Alps (Switzerland/Nth Italy) and the Midlands of England. Our primary source for these hot-spots is a major study done by N.Myres et al in 2010.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/R1b1a2a1a1/
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R1b1a2a1a1*   R1b-L11*    P310+ U106- P312-
Ancestry - John Ballard b. abt 1480 Herefordshire, England, Uk.
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« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2013, 02:58:05 AM »

I agreed with ballardgen's hypothesis that his R-L11* was of Italian origin but from a Langobard descent and this could explain the rarity of R-L11* in Italy and this was a lack in my theory of the Italian Refugium, but I have posted some posts also about very varied Italian R-L11*, and my hypothesis was that these samples were the witness of the most ancient R-L11* from the Italian Refugium.
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Adrian Ballard
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« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2013, 06:53:02 AM »

New FTDNA project


http://www.worldfamilies.net/surnames/r1b1a2a1a
« Last Edit: October 28, 2013, 06:26:06 PM by Adrian Ballard » Logged

R1b1a2a1a1*   R1b-L11*    P310+ U106- P312-
Ancestry - John Ballard b. abt 1480 Herefordshire, England, Uk.
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« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2013, 09:03:35 AM »

That may morph into the DF100 Project once enough of you are tested for it.
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Adrian Ballard
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« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2013, 06:29:00 PM »

Dear Moderator

How can we transfer the current thread and obtain a Forum Group for our project?

http://www.worldfamilies.net/surnames/r1b1a2a1a

Best Wishes
Adrian
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R1b1a2a1a1*   R1b-L11*    P310+ U106- P312-
Ancestry - John Ballard b. abt 1480 Herefordshire, England, Uk.
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