World Families Forums - New P312+ SNP: DF99 (P312>DF99)

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November 27, 2014, 01:27:41 AM
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Author Topic: New P312+ SNP: DF99 (P312>DF99)  (Read 8204 times)
GoldenHind
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« Reply #25 on: November 23, 2013, 03:53:33 PM »

Further developments: after four DF negative results, the first positive one came in this morning. He and I appear to be a GD of 34 @ 66 markers, which reinforces the idea that this is an old subclade. I don't like to name him publicly without getting his permission first. I will contact him to see if he minds.
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GoldenHind
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« Reply #26 on: November 24, 2013, 03:57:02 AM »

There are now two DF99+ results, versus five negative results. I can now identify the first as Fimbres. His ancestry is from Spain by way of Mexico, but he says his ancestor was a Flemish silk merchant who settled in Bilboa, Spain in the 17th century. He has found a legal record which describes his ancestor Juan de Fimbres as a "Flamenco," and he believes he is the same as a Johannes Fimbres who was born near Liege in 1635. Since we know there are four DF99 samples in the Netherlands study, it is not surprising that it should be found in Flanders as well.

The second DF99+ result is no surprise. It is Barreldriver, who matches me on six rare to unusual off modals. Our ancestors come from neighboring counties in England. However we are a GD of 28 at 76 markers, so obviously the connection is not particularly close.

Fimbres results appear to establish that there is no STR signature common to DF99.

The five negative results show that there is at least one, and probably more than one subclade within P312 that hasn't been identified yet. Two of the negative samples are members of a fairly large variety, almost all of whom have Welsh or English surnames. This variety is distinguished by nine different off modals. When this subclade is finally identified, it will be important to our knowledge of Ydna in England.
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Castlebob
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« Reply #27 on: November 24, 2013, 04:19:30 AM »

Thanks for that info, Goldenhind. Very illuminating. I was fascinated to see the R1b-S116 group distribution map supplied by BritainsDNA. It shows a mere 5% in Wales as opposed to 10% across Central & East England. S W England is shown as 13%, S E as 11%. Yorkshire is 8%, while Northern England is the highest at 14%, with Central Scotland at 12%. Ireland averages 7%.
Had Wales, S W England and the north had far higher percentages than the rest of Britain & the Isles, then I'd have thought that a strong  Brythonic Celt influence existed for this HG. However, the map shows Wales as the lowest percentage for R1b-S116. Has anyone with obvious Welsh ancestry been supplied with a map?
My research via medieval docs suggests a Flemish link for my Anglo-Scottish border surname, so I'd like to see more DNA info regarding north east France & Belgium. However, I do appreciate we're dealing with extremely distant timescales, thus making surname links extremely  problematic!
« Last Edit: November 24, 2013, 12:37:13 PM by Castlebob » Logged

Y-DNA: R1b1b2a1b P312+ Z245- Z2247- Z2245- Z196-  U152-  U106-  P66-  M65-  M37-  M222-  M153-  L459-  L21-  L176.2-  DF27-  DF19- L624+ (S389+)
mtDNA: U5b2b3
rms2
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« Reply #28 on: November 24, 2013, 10:38:42 AM »

Interesting, especially the information on Fimbres.

I look forward to hearing about more DF99+ results.
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GoldenHind
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« Reply #29 on: December 05, 2013, 09:55:13 PM »

I am very pleased to report that DF99 has finally been placed on the ISOGG R1b as a new subclade under P312 with the designation R1b1a2a1a2f. Previously it was merely listed as an SNP under investigation.
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rms2
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« Reply #30 on: December 06, 2013, 07:44:24 AM »

I am very pleased to report that DF99 has finally been placed on the ISOGG R1b as a new subclade under P312 with the designation R1b1a2a1a2f. Previously it was merely listed as an SNP under investigation.

That's good to hear. The coming new year should witness a lot of learning about DF99 (and other heretofore unknown SNPs).

Continued Big Y, Geno 2.0, and Chromo2 testing should uncover some more DF99+ men, as will a la carte testing.

Should be an interesting year.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2013, 07:44:41 AM by rms2 » Logged

GoldenHind
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« Reply #31 on: December 08, 2013, 12:30:57 AM »


Two more DF99 results posted today, both positive. One is from northern Italy. We already had knew there was a DF99+ from Tuscany in the 1KG Project, so this is now two.

The second is from Scotland, the first from there.
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Maliclavelli
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« Reply #32 on: December 08, 2013, 04:26:37 AM »


Two more DF99 results posted today, both positive. One is from northern Italy. We already had knew there was a DF99+ from Tuscany in the 1KG Project, so this is now two.

The second is from Scotland, the first from there.

Of  course it is by chance, but 1 Tuscan out about 50 it is 2%. The case of Penna from Liguria strengthens this trend.
Netherlands with 4 cases out of 500 is at 0.8%.
The origin of R-P312* from the Italian Refugium has been theorized by me from many years besides R1b1*, R-M269*, R-L51*, R-U152*.
About the scarcity of R-L11* I spoke a lot: it is above all from German people (see my friend Ballard positions), but Italy (Tuscany) has the most varied sample known so far (Pistoia province).
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Maliclavelli


YDNA: R-S12460


MtDNA: K1a1b1e

fyrmanStu
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« Reply #33 on: April 20, 2014, 01:31:49 PM »

Just tested positive for DF99.  Biddenden, Kent, England is farthest I go back with paternal ancestor. B6530 is my kit on familytreeDNA.
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palamede
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« Reply #34 on: April 23, 2014, 07:16:07 AM »

Just tested positive for DF99.  Biddenden, Kent, England is farthest I go back with paternal ancestor. B6530 is my kit on familytreeDNA.

See the thread  http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?1210-DF99-(P312-gt-DF99)/page20
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Y=G2a3b1a2-L497 Wallony-Charleroi; Mt=H2a2a1 Normandy-Bray
Dodecad-DiY: E Eur 9,25% W Eur 48,48% Med 28,46% W Asia 11,70%
World9: Atl-Balt 67,61% Southern 13,23% Cauc-Gedr 12,73%
K12a: North-E 39,71% Med 37,9% Cauc 12,55% Gedr 5,78% SW Asia 2,13%
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