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Author Topic: R1b Ht35, DYS393=11 ?  (Read 1637 times)
Kost
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« on: August 11, 2013, 10:10:28 AM »

Hi everyone

Ever since I got my fist results from FTDNA, I've been somewhat puzzled by my (apparently rare) value of DYS393=11. I understand that random mutations sometimes occur with out any statistical significance, on the other hand based on what I have read so far, DYS393 has an extremely slow mutation rate.

I have found this source http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~gallgaedhil/haplo_r1b_ht35.htm listing many haplotypes under ht35, but still none mentions "11" as a DYS393 value.

If anyone could point out any source with additional/or updated info that mentions this specific DYS value, it would be much appreciated!
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Athens Gr, YDNA: R1b (R-L150/Z2110, L584-), MtDNA: H28a
Joe B
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« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2013, 06:17:50 PM »

Hey Kost,
Here is a list of DYS393=11 kits.
102481 Willing DNA Project
134236 Willing DNA Project Z2103+, Z2105+, L277-, L584-
134450 Willing DNA Project
137947 Willing DNA Project
146527 Willing DNA Project
154127 Willing DNA Project
161233 Willing DNA Project
259018 Georgia DNA Project
N98739 Greek DNA Project CTS7822+, Geno2.0, L150+, L23+, L584-
215158 Armenian DNA Project
149197 Armenian DNA Project L150+
184387 Armenian DNA Project
255343 Armenian DNA Project
255352 Armenian DNA Project
N57912 Armenian DNA Project L23+
To complicate the matter a little more, maybe your DYS393 changed to 11 relatively recently and the others independently to 11.  DYS392=12 is pretty rare too.
Seems like everybody that is in the L150+ clade has some really wacky strs that are supposed to be very slow to mutate.  
Does anybody have a good way to sort when markers like DYS393 or DYS392 are off modal?


« Last Edit: August 11, 2013, 07:01:45 PM by Joe B » Logged
Maliclavelli
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« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2013, 11:24:02 PM »

Also slow mutating markers sometime mutate. I wouldn't pay any attention to this. I have too DYS392=12 (and it is a very slow mutating marker), but my relative Giancarlo Tognoni (MRCA Antonio del Badia, born on 1449) has the modal 13, then my mutation is very recent. Of course it may last thousands of years in my descendants if I will have some.
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Maliclavelli


YDNA: R-S12460


MtDNA: K1a1b1e

Kost
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« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2013, 08:53:33 AM »

Thank you both.

As you both mention, from now on I will consider this a random occurrence and stop looking for my phantom Ht. :-)
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Athens Gr, YDNA: R1b (R-L150/Z2110, L584-), MtDNA: H28a
gtc
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« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2013, 10:56:25 AM »

Athens Gr, R1b (R-L150/Z2110)

Where does Z2110 sit on the tree?

It doesn't seem to be recognized by ISOGG yet.
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Y-DNA: R1b-Z12* (R1b1a2a1a1a3b2b1a1a1) GGG-GF Ireland (roots reportedly Anglo-Norman)
mtDNA: I3b (FMS) Maternal lines Irish
Kost
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« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2013, 03:24:23 AM »

From what others have told me, Z2110 is 3 levels down from Z2103/Z2105.
I also could not find it on ISOGG. Geno 2 mentions CTS7822 as my terminal SNP, without testing Z2103/Z2105, if my understanding is correct.
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Athens Gr, YDNA: R1b (R-L150/Z2110, L584-), MtDNA: H28a
Maliclavelli
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« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2013, 04:15:03 AM »

From what others have told me, Z2110 is 3 levels down from Z2103/Z2105.
I also could not find it on ISOGG. Geno 2 mentions CTS7822 as my terminal SNP, without testing Z2103/Z2105, if my understanding is correct.

This is what Richard Rocca says, because he has individuated a new SNP in 1KGP intermediate between Z2103/Z2105 and Z2110, then who is Z2110 is also Z2103/Z2105+. He communicated the primers to Thomas Krahn c/o FTDNA, but I don't know if they will test it. Anyway this demonstrates that L277+, L584+, Z2110+ and other subclades descend from R-Z2103/Z2105*.
We are waiting to know if the PF7580 of Carnevali is ancestor of L584+ and subclades and is intermediate it too between Z2103/Z2105+ and L584+.
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Maliclavelli


YDNA: R-S12460


MtDNA: K1a1b1e

gtc
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« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2013, 08:16:32 AM »

From what others have told me, Z2110 is 3 levels down from Z2103/Z2105.
I also could not find it on ISOGG. Geno 2 mentions CTS7822 as my terminal SNP, without testing Z2103/Z2105, if my understanding is correct.

Thanks.
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Y-DNA: R1b-Z12* (R1b1a2a1a1a3b2b1a1a1) GGG-GF Ireland (roots reportedly Anglo-Norman)
mtDNA: I3b (FMS) Maternal lines Irish
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