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Author Topic: Morley spreadsheet and the origin of R1b1 subclades  (Read 534 times)
Maliclavelli
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« on: July 23, 2013, 07:07:20 PM »

A good work, but to use with knowledge of the matter. It is a useful tool for demonstrating (or deny) my hypothesis.
To come to the node of R1b1* (the ancestor of all subclade), Morley puts Savage (Shpritz), the unique of this group tested so far. He belongs to the Jewish group of R1b1 (I have always supported introgressed from European people), that with YCAII=18-23. We don't know a Geno 2.0 of someone of the Eastern Group (that with YCAII=21-23 or 23-23). We will see.
The Jewish R1b1a2/M269*, with those three Sardinian SNPs (PF7558,PF7562,PF7563), are already excluded from the line which brings to L23*, and they too are probably introgressed from European people.
These are the people L23* (but Geno 2.0 doesn't test for Z2103 and following, except Z2110 (CTS7822)):
!26483, N10795, N112959, N113118, N114022, N53795, N79525, N81217, N9475
Amongst them the Italian Carnevali (N10795), who has the SNP PF7580, which is the ancestor of the line which brings to Silver (Z2103/Z2105, L584 plus four SNPs and other two from Geno 2.0 I have signaled in other threads), then Carnevali cannot be the ancestor of R-L51.

P.S. Amongst R-L23 and R-L51 there are  these SNPs now:
!!1R1b1a2a L150/PF6274 (775/775), L23/PF6534/S141 (771/775), L49/S349 (37/775)
1279 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1R1b1a2a–1 L478 (764/771), PF6404 (770/771)
1280 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!126483, N10795, N112959, N113118, N114022, N53795, N79525, N81217, N9475
1281 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1R1b1a2a1 M412/L51/PF6536/S167 (751/752
« Last Edit: July 23, 2013, 07:12:43 PM by Maliclavelli » Logged

Maliclavelli


YDNA: R-S12460


MtDNA: K1a1b1e

Maliclavelli
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« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2013, 03:44:25 AM »

Hi Morley. I don't understand why your spreadsheet put 208954 as he were the most ancient R1a. Actually he, Grigorij Baev, belongs to a cluster found in Belarus and Russian Federation of R1a1. He has been tested by FTDNA like "R-SRY10831.2 L457+, L566+, SRY10831.2+, Z85+, L449-, M198-" and these are their markers values:

195436    Bazyl Shpakovsky 1800-unknown    Poland    R1a1    
13    25    15    10    12-12    12    13    12    13    13    31    16    9-9    11    11    25    16    20    34    13-16-16-16    10    11    19-23    15    16    20    18    35-38    11    11                                            
N86494    Bazyl Shpakovsky 1800-unknown, Bokinichi, Belarus    Belarus    R1a1    
13    25    15    10    12-12    12    13    12    13    13    31    16    9-9    11    11    25    16    20    34    13-16-16-16    10    11    19-23    15    16    20    18    35-38    11    11    11    8    15-17    8    11    10    8    12    10    12    22-22    17    10    12    12    15    8    12    22    23    13    12    11    14    11    11    12    13    36    13    9    15    12    25    27    19    12    11    12    12    10    9    11    10    10    11    11    29    12    14    23    13    9    10    22    15    18    12    23    13    12    15    24    12    24    18    11    14    18    9    11    11
208954    Grigorij Baev    Russian Federation    R1a1    
13    26    15    10    12-13    12    13    12    13    13    31    16    9-9    11    11    26    16    20    33    12-16-16-16    10    11    19-23    15    16    20    17    35-37    11    11    11    8    15-17    8    11    10    8    12    10    12    22-22    18    10    12    12    15    8    12    22    23    13    12    11    13    11    11    12    13
        
They have DYS392=13, but aren't R1a*, i.e. R-M420*, found so far in Western Europe (Isles, Italy, Central Europe). We are waiting to know the markers values of some R-M420* that some scholars would have found in Iran. For what I know no one has been found so far In India.

About N114240 (Abdulla) we can say that he belongs to a subclade out of the line of descent of R1a-M420, then not ancestor of the subclades, as in hg. R1b is Raza  (267597) and to an upper line Guralsky (114281) and now also (N26020, Segarra), but he is an R1b1-L388/L389+ and there he should be put.

« Last Edit: September 17, 2013, 05:12:54 AM by Maliclavelli » Logged

Maliclavelli


YDNA: R-S12460


MtDNA: K1a1b1e

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