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Author Topic: Is distinctive DNA marker proof of ancient genocide?  (Read 1607 times)
Bren123
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« on: July 03, 2013, 11:42:27 AM »

I thought I would post this here, hopefully it hasn't already been posted!

A controversial theory holds invaders from Iberia may have massacred much of Ireland’s male population




http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/is-distinctive-dna-marker-proof-of-ancient-genocide-1.1426197
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LDJ
gtc
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« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2013, 01:49:35 AM »

Alastair Moffat is gaining a reputation for wild speculative claims like this one.

He is on my ignore list.
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Y-DNA: R1b-Z12* (R1b1a2a1a1a3b2b1a1a1) GGG-GF Ireland (roots reportedly Anglo-Norman)
mtDNA: I3b (FMS) Maternal lines Irish
rms2
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« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2013, 03:49:51 PM »

I take what he says with more than one grain of salt, but I still find it interesting and worth checking out, if only to see how people react to what he has to say.
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Bren123
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« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2013, 06:56:08 AM »

I take what he says with more than one grain of salt, but I still find it interesting and worth checking out, if only to see how people react to what he has to say.

I found what he said interesting and the reaction of people as well!   :D
« Last Edit: October 14, 2013, 10:22:16 AM by Bren123 » Logged

LDJ
Bren123
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« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2013, 07:04:18 AM »

Alastair Moffat is gaining a reputation for wild speculative claims like this one.

He is on my ignore list.

Is that any different to any of the other wild spec?
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LDJ
rms2
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« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2013, 06:51:31 AM »

Moffat might be wrong, but it is kind of refreshing to see something other than the old "Ice Age Basques" malarkey appearing in the news. At least people are now willing to consider other possibilities.
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A.D.
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« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2013, 09:15:26 PM »

there was a period of 20 years of rain around 2500 BC, I think, according to the dendro guys that could have lead to mass abandonment by the G-men.   
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Bren123
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« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2013, 02:34:20 PM »

there was a period of 20 years of rain around 2500 BC, I think, according to the dendro guys that could have lead to mass abandonment by the G-men.   

There was also climatic problems during the late bronze age!
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LDJ
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« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2013, 02:14:55 PM »


I am adding this as an observation:  It is unusual that there are a very large cluster of Terminal SNP L-165 in south central England and a large cluster in Scotlands Hebrides in the MacNeils, MacLeods and MacDonalds howevér none of the SNP L-165 is found in Ireland which would be a natural migratory path between these two clusters.  This strange distribution of L-165 has been unexplaned.  Some alternate explanations to answer this strange situation are that some of the L165 migrated up from Iberia to Germany and then on to the Norse areas in Scandinavia and then south to the Hebrides.  However the L-165 in these Norse areas have been been found to be very sparce.  Could it be that this unusual distribution confirms the ancient genocide in Ireland being discussed in this Form.
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Scotsman
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« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2013, 09:35:09 PM »


I am adding this as an observation:  It is unusual that there are a very large cluster of Terminal SNP L-165 in south central England and a large cluster in Scotlands Hebrides in the MacNeils, MacLeods and MacDonalds howevér none of the SNP L-165 is found in Ireland which would be a natural migratory path between these two clusters.  This strange distribution of L-165 has been unexplaned.  Some alternate explanations to answer this strange situation are that some of the L165 migrated up from Iberia to Germany and then on to the Norse areas in Scandinavia and then south to the Hebrides.  However the L-165 in these Norse areas have been been found to be very sparce.  Could it be that this unusual distribution confirms the ancient genocide in Ireland being discussed in this Form.

This is a very interesting subject for me as I'm on a parallel branch of Z196.  I would like to start a new thread on this.
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William B. Webb
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Bren123
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« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2013, 02:15:27 PM »

Moffat might be wrong, but it is kind of refreshing to see something other than the old "Ice Age Basques" malarkey appearing in the news. At least people are now willing to consider other possibilities.

No one seems to think that is wild spec!
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LDJ
RickA
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« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2013, 08:39:25 PM »

I don't know if it applies in this case, but I think we usually underestimate man's capacity for conquest, slaughter, and even genocide. The good book sure has plenty of examples.  We have plenty of recent examples, too.

Perhaps the reason "genetic Adam" seems to be younger than "genetic Eve" is that much of the male line variance has been eliminated along the way.  Perhaps the reason skull shapes seem to change with cultural movements is due not to "cultural diffusion", but to the introduction of significant numbers of new local female population members. Human nature isn't always pretty.  Again, no opinion about this Irish case, but I think this sort of possibility should always be considered.  Seems it rarely is.
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Bren123
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« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2013, 02:28:15 PM »

I don't know if it applies in this case, but I think we usually underestimate man's capacity for conquest, slaughter, and even genocide. The good book sure has plenty of examples.  We have plenty of recent examples, too.

Perhaps the reason "genetic Adam" seems to be younger than "genetic Eve" is that much of the male line variance has been eliminated along the way.  Perhaps the reason skull shapes seem to change with cultural movements is due not to "cultural diffusion", but to the introduction of significant numbers of new local female population members. Human nature isn't always pretty.  Again, no opinion about this Irish case, but I think this sort of possibility should always be considered.  Seems it rarely is.

I think the reason is due to a dogmatic position!
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LDJ
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