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seferhabahir
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« Reply #50 on: July 05, 2013, 10:18:17 PM »

At this point I think the claims about the connections to Joseph are aimed at getting someone's goose.

I sort of like this thread. Maybe we could change it around a little to discuss what kind of Y-DNA the Hyksos might have. Some people (even scholars) think the rise of Joseph story is associated with the Hyksos era in Egypt. The Hyksos interlude was indelibly etched into the collective Egyptian memory, however the origin of the Hyksos is not necessarily well understood (Hurrian, Hittite, Semite?).

See for example

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origins_of_the_Hyksos#Modern_scholarship

« Last Edit: July 05, 2013, 10:37:28 PM by seferhabahir » Logged

Y-DNA: R-L21 (Z251+ L583+)

mtDNA: J1c7a

seferhabahir
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« Reply #51 on: July 05, 2013, 10:32:42 PM »

Some people (even scholars) think the rise of Joseph story is associated with the Hyksos era in Egypt. The Hyksos interlude was indelibly etched into the collective Egyptian memory, however the origin of the Hyksos is not necessarily well understood (Hittite, Semite?).

Here's a quote from Baruch Halpern, a well-known professor of Jewish studies and also an archeologist (admittedly this is sort of old, being from a 1991 symposium at the Smithsonian Institution on Ancient Israel):

"Overall, the Joseph story is a reinterpretation of the Hyksos period from an Israelite perspective. Admitting a relationship between Israel and the Hyksos, it affirms that the episode was part of a divine plan to preserve both the Asiatics and the Egyptians. The framework of the Joseph story, then, is plainly apologetic: It offers up the perspective of the despised “Asiatics” against centuries of Egyptian opprobrium. The tradition’s date is uncertain, but its most probable time of origin is in the tenth century, under, or just after, Solomon."

Clearly, the Joseph story is based on something historical, but whether Joseph himself was a real person capable of giving rise to a modern haplogroup (R1b something or other) is a different matter entirely.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2013, 10:38:51 PM by seferhabahir » Logged

Y-DNA: R-L21 (Z251+ L583+)

mtDNA: J1c7a

rms2
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« Reply #52 on: July 06, 2013, 03:45:39 PM »

L226 is Jewish. It comes from Mileisus who is from Jewish Khazaria. Its the royal line of Joseph (Ephraim). If you look you'll find it.

The burden of proof is with the person making such claims. Why should we look for evidence of your assertions? You are obligated to prove them or at least provide some evidence of them. You have not done any of that.

We have been through all this already. L226 most certainly is NOT Jewish and has no connection to Khazaria or the royal line of Joseph. The Khazars themselves were Turkic converts to Judaism and would have had no genetic connection to Joseph.

The evidence is overwhelming that L226 is Irish and connected to the Dál gCais families of Munster.

At this point I think the claims about the connections to Joseph are aimed at getting someone's goose.

I kind of wish that were so, but I think instead that he really believes it (but without any good reasons).
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pcusack1
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« Reply #53 on: July 10, 2013, 07:28:51 PM »

Some people (even scholars) think the rise of Joseph story is associated with the Hyksos era in Egypt. The Hyksos interlude was indelibly etched into the collective Egyptian memory, however the origin of the Hyksos is not necessarily well understood (Hittite, Semite?).

Here's a quote from Baruch Halpern, a well-known professor of Jewish studies and also an archeologist (admittedly this is sort of old, being from a 1991 symposium at the Smithsonian Institution on Ancient Israel):

"Overall, the Joseph story is a reinterpretation of the Hyksos period from an Israelite perspective. Admitting a relationship between Israel and the Hyksos, it affirms that the episode was part of a divine plan to preserve both the Asiatics and the Egyptians. The framework of the Joseph story, then, is plainly apologetic: It offers up the perspective of the despised “Asiatics” against centuries of Egyptian opprobrium. The tradition’s date is uncertain, but its most probable time of origin is in the tenth century, under, or just after, Solomon."

Clearly, the Joseph story is based on something historical, but whether Joseph himself was a real person capable of giving rise to a modern haplogroup (R1b something or other) is a different matter entirely.


This is the common error scientist make about the Truth of Scripture.  Joseph and Judah were real people and so was Jesus.  The Bible is a true story of the ancestors of Jesus.  Genetic will eventually prove that. It proved their was one man Adam and one woman Eve. 

If you want to know the solution to Darwinian problem, its as simple as God left a phrase out. Genesis should read: " The universe is made of dust (dark matter); Man is made from the Universe (Darwin); therefore Man is made from dust." He simply gave us the last phrase, Man is made from dust.
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pcusack1
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« Reply #54 on: July 10, 2013, 07:40:40 PM »

L226 is Jewish. It comes from Mileisus who is from Jewish Khazaria. Its the royal line of Joseph (Ephraim). If you look you'll find it.

The burden of proof is with the person making such claims. Why should we look for evidence of your assertions? You are obligated to prove them or at least provide some evidence of them. You have not done any of that.

We have been through all this already. L226 most certainly is NOT Jewish and has no connection to Khazaria or the royal line of Joseph. The Khazars themselves were Turkic converts to Judaism and would have had no genetic connection to Joseph.

The evidence is overwhelming that L226 is Irish and connected to the Dál gCais families of Munster.

At this point I think the claims about the connections to Joseph are aimed at getting someone's goose.

I kind of wish that were so, but I think instead that he really believes it (but without any good reasons).

Who would have believed the Scots were Jewish?  Now their are books on it. How about Rouen France?  Book also.

The Jews teach that there is two Messiahs: Moshiach Ben David and Moshhiach Ben Joseph.  These people certainly did exist and their descendants do too.

Joseph riles over his brothers (Genesis) including Judah.  It was the twin Ephraim (Edward) who got the better blessing from his grandfather Jacob.(Genesis)

It all ties together, but you need to know more than just genetics.
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pcusack1
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« Reply #55 on: July 10, 2013, 08:49:10 PM »

:23 And the children of the half tribe of Manasseh dwelt in the land: they increased from Bashan unto Baalhermon and Senir, and unto Mount Hermon.
5:24 And these were the heads of the house of their fathers, even Epher, and Ishi, and Eliel, and Azriel, and Jeremiah, and Hodaviah, and Jahdiel, mighty men of valour, famous men, and heads of the house of their fathers. 5:25 And they transgressed against the God of their fathers, and went a whoring after the gods of the people of the land, whom God destroyed before them.

5:26 And the God of Israel stirred up the spirit of Pul king of Assyria, and the spirit of Tilgathpilneser king of Assyria, and he carried them away, even the Reubenites, and the Gadites, and the half tribe of Manasseh, and brought them unto Halah, and Habor, and Hara, and to the river Gozan, unto this day." (1 Chronicles 5:23-26 KJV)

The O'Hara's are related to Mileisus and the Kings of Ir-land.
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pcusack1
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« Reply #56 on: July 10, 2013, 09:44:10 PM »

The Bourbon Throne of France is L226 as well. Machir of Narbonne was sent for when the French wanted a King. The Israelites sent Machir.  That's why Bourbon DNA matches the Irish royal House L226. 


No insults please!  If you can build on this please do so. It's up to you.
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pcusack1
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« Reply #57 on: July 10, 2013, 10:43:42 PM »

The Cusacks in Co Clare Co descend from Dermod III God Clusach Mccarthy of Carbery.  The O'Haras of Northern Ireland do too.  The O'Hara's made their way to rural Limerick. The O'Hara's  split from the Cusacks in 1487.  The O'Haras are likely from Mt Hara in 1 chronicles 5:24.  They are from the tribe of Manessah, twin brother of Ephraim, sons of Joseph. L226 could be Jewish.
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pcusack1
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« Reply #58 on: July 10, 2013, 11:37:33 PM »

The Cusacks descend likely from King Ollium Olum 2nd c who had 3 boys who lived. One was Cormac Cas- another was Eoghan.   In 1641 there is born an Eoghan Clusack.  So that's why I have Dalcassian DNA.
 
We are not Dalcassians but are from the line of Irish Kings.  The next one is King Dermod iii God Clusack. (Cusack)
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pcusack1
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« Reply #59 on: July 10, 2013, 11:54:43 PM »

Mileisus is an ancestor of King Olium Oilil Olum.  He had 3 sons one Cormac Cas, the other Eogan.   Eogan is a son of Agnoman of Sythia (Khazachstan).  He descends from the Royal Jews. There is a Eogan Clusach b1641. 

Summary: L226 is the Royal Jewish Line.
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pcusack1
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« Reply #60 on: July 11, 2013, 12:48:33 AM »

The L226 Cusack or Clusachs descend from Mileisus and before him Agnoman of Sythia. These were the Khazars.  they traced their lineage from the royal line of the 10 lost tribes of Israel in the 9 th century- particularly  the tribe of Joseph.

So we show Dalcassian DNA but are not of Cas but are his brother Eoghan, sons of Oilill Olum.

So L226 is Jewish after all and I have given you the path to find it.
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pcusack1
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« Reply #61 on: July 11, 2013, 12:55:16 AM »

You'll find traces of L226 in Kuwait (Ur); Khazachstan (Sythia) ; Egypt; Northern Spain (and perhaps Aragon) and of course Ireland and North America.
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inver2b1
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« Reply #62 on: July 11, 2013, 08:12:46 AM »


Summary: L226 is the Royal Jewish Line.

None of that is a summary, you fall under a certain haplogroup and you have a wish to be attached to royalty and the bible so 2+2=22
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I-L126
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« Reply #63 on: July 11, 2013, 10:27:23 AM »

My friend responded as follows:

The Irish pedigrees are in error and were written by much later generations to increase their standing and importance.

 It was said in the Pedigrees, that  Cormac Cas was the second son of Olioll Olum, King of Muster and was the younger brother of Owen Mór.  The third son was Cian.  Owen Mór was killed in the battle of Magh Mucromha but had by a Druid's daughter a son named Feach (Fiacha Maolleathan as he was called).

 "From these three sons of Olioll Olum are descended the Hiberian nobility and gentry of Munster and other parts of Ireland; viz., from Owen Mór are descended M'Carthy, O'Sullivan, O'Keeffe, and the rest of the ancient nobility of Desmond; from Cormac-Cas are descended O'Brien, MacMahon, O'Kennedy, and the rest of the nobility and gentry of Thomond; and from Cian [Kian] are descended O'Carroll (of Ely-O'Carroll), O'Meagher, O'Hara, O'Gara, etc."

 This must be fabricated as Irish Type III are L226+ while the Eoghanachts are not!

 If we go further back in the pedigrees we find that all the tribes go back to Mil, including the O'Neills who are shown to be M222+.

 We cannot have three lines with a common ancestor, one M222+, one L226+ and one both M222- and L226-.

 The Eoghanachts ARE NOT Irish Type III, they ARE NOT L226+.

I'll leave it to the experts.
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Mark Jost
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« Reply #64 on: July 11, 2013, 04:44:34 PM »

There are a couple of different opinions.

Paul D emailed me this info a couple of years ago.

Quote"{"Cormac Cas" obviously is the purported ancestor of the "Dál gCais" who are connected with L226 (and now Z253 -- Irish Type III.)

It's generally agreed that the Dál gCais genealogy is falsified product of the 9th/early 10th century. "Cormac Cas" is written in as a brother of "Éoghain Mór" from whom the Eoghanacht (South Irish) are descended. Obviously the disconnect in haplotypes as well as SNP's proves this falisfication. Of course Éoghain was the grandson of "Mug Nuadhat" -- of "Leath Mogh" fame (the southern half of Ireland), been the great foe of Conn (of 100 battles -- ancestor of Connachta/Uí Néill) of "Leath Cuinn".

In this whole realm of "pseudo-history" the Eóghanacht via their ancestor Mug Nuadhat were suppose to have arrived in Munster from abroad (continent -- some have said perhaps Gaulish in origin), they came to dominate Munster in 7th-8th century. Before that the Coru Loígde were dominant. Ye thus looking at perhaps a very old population that was first supplanted by the Eóghanacht in early medieval period who were then supplanted by Dál gCais in the late 10th/11th century. Of course the Éoghanacht retained controll of Desmond (south munster) until the 16th century.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E%C3%B3ganachta

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corcu_Lo%C3%ADgde

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%A1l_gCais

It has been suggested that before they modified their lineage the Dál gCais were a branch of the Déise of Waterford

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%A9isi

In general any genealogy purported from before the 8th century is highly suspect, as it was want to modify things. Some historians have argued that there was a process "History Synthesis" which occurred during this time. The "Synthetic historians" rewrote the history so as to tie in with biblical narrative as well as to give a unified history to entire island. The crowning example of this is the whole myth of "Míl Espáine".}UnQuote


MJost
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148326
Pos: Z245 L459 L21 DF13**
Neg: DF23 L513 L96 L144 Z255 Z253 DF21 DF41 (Z254 P66 P314.2 M37 M222  L563 L526 L226 L195 L193 L192.1 L159.2 L130 DF63 DF5 DF49)
WTYNeg: L555 L371 (L9/L10 L370 L302/L319.1 L554 L564 L577 P69 L626 L627 L643 L679)
Webb
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« Reply #65 on: July 11, 2013, 07:01:01 PM »

Of all the genetic lineages in Ireland, the one that would most likely represent the Milesians, supposing there really was a Mil, would be DF27.  This is based on the fact that the ROXX cluster is DF27** and DF27 is heavy in Iberia.  This is a small excerpt from the "History of Ireland" by Webb.
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William B. Webb
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rms2
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« Reply #66 on: July 12, 2013, 02:50:33 PM »

You'll find traces of L226 in Kuwait (Ur); Khazachstan (Sythia) ; Egypt; Northern Spain (and perhaps Aragon) . . .

No, you won't.

This is ridiculous, I mean utterly, incredibly ridiculous and preposterous.

There is no genetic or historical evidence connecting Irish Type III/L226 with the Jews, the line of Joseph, the Khazars, the Bourbons, and so on (and on and on).

What is the point of continuing to participate in a Twilight Zone discussion like this?
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Maliclavelli
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« Reply #67 on: July 12, 2013, 03:22:33 PM »


This is ridiculous, I mean utterly, incredibly ridiculous and preposterous.

I was reproached for having used the word "ridiculous" and what I criticized (and that made me ban from some forum) wasn't less "ridiculous" than this.
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Maliclavelli


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rms2
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« Reply #68 on: July 12, 2013, 05:33:38 PM »


This is ridiculous, I mean utterly, incredibly ridiculous and preposterous.

I was reproached for having used the word "ridiculous" and what I criticized (and that made me ban from some forum) wasn't less "ridiculous" than this.

I don't see anything wrong with calling an argument or an entire thread ridiculous. That is not an ad hominem attack. It is an attack on a preposterous argument and not on a person.

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pcusack1
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« Reply #69 on: July 13, 2013, 10:37:17 PM »

You'll find traces of L226 in Kuwait (Ur); Khazachstan (Sythia) ; Egypt; Northern Spain (and perhaps Aragon) . . .

No, you won't.

This is ridiculous, I mean utterly, incredibly ridiculous and preposterous.

There is no genetic or historical evidence connecting Irish Type III/L226 with the Jews, the line of Joseph, the Khazars, the Bourbons, and so on (and on and on).

What is the point of continuing to participate in a Twilight Zone discussion like this?

People thought it was ridiculous when it was claimed the Earth was round. Where are they now? They are all dead!
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pcusack1
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« Reply #70 on: July 13, 2013, 10:51:27 PM »

You'll eventually figure out that L226 is Jewish and Bourbon. Its a matter of months. Someone - an expert - will figure it out, soon.
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pcusack1
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« Reply #71 on: July 13, 2013, 11:01:41 PM »

Not all of the Irish are Jewish - just the Royal throne - the L226 O'Brien's. Did you know there were O'Brien's from Normandy? LeBrien
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pcusack1
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« Reply #72 on: July 13, 2013, 11:07:39 PM »

Who knew there Jews in Rouen? Who knew there were Jews in Scotland?  You need to have an open mind in genetics, especially when there is unexplained evidence.  I have an advantage: I already know the answer. It's up to the experts to fill in the blanks.
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Dubhthach
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« Reply #73 on: July 14, 2013, 05:45:21 AM »

Not all of the Irish are Jewish - just the Royal throne - the L226 O'Brien's. Did you know there were O'Brien's from Normandy? LeBrien

That makes no sense at all. If any SNP arose in Ireland it's L226.
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rms2
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« Reply #74 on: July 14, 2013, 07:19:15 AM »

You'll eventually figure out that L226 is Jewish and Bourbon. Its a matter of months. Someone - an expert - will figure it out, soon.

No, because it's not, but a little bourbon sounds good.

By the way, there was never a time when most educated people believed the earth was flat, just as there never was a time when sensible people believed L226 was Jewish, and there never will be.
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