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Author Topic: Jewish roots for L226?  (Read 7766 times)
Webb
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« Reply #25 on: June 23, 2013, 08:34:18 PM »

L226 going on men who have tested positive for it is at most 1200-1400 years old. It's heavily tied to men belonging to "Irish Type III" str cluster and bearing surnames linked to the Dál gCais dynastical grouping.

Cusack itself is an Irish name with at least one form of the name coming from North Munster specifically the area ruled by the Dál gCais. I think it's fairly evident that it's not connected to either Galatians in "Asia Minor" or to Khazaria.

-Paul
(DF41+)

Sorry, I assumed there were L226 in the Middle East and was just giving a broad example of possibilities.  I didn't realize the clade was that recent.
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William B. Webb
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pcusack1
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« Reply #26 on: June 23, 2013, 08:40:40 PM »

I've never learned one thing from a forum. They are a waste of time.  Always quick to insult. 

And yes name were important centuries ago. It meant something to the ancients. 
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Webb
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« Reply #27 on: June 23, 2013, 09:03:10 PM »

I've never learned one thing from a forum. They are a waste of time.  Always quick to insult. 

And yes name were important centuries ago. It meant something to the ancients. 

I can't speak for everyone, but there are a lot of experts on here.  L21 is a very Western European haplotype.  Not every clade under it is represented in the isles, but a large amount is and some, if not most has been there a long time.  It is possible if this particular clade is found in the Middle East, it was brought there sporadically.  Paul corrected me and I didn't lose any sleep over it.  He knows a lot about L21 and Irish history.  If someone is quick to pounce on you, then stay calm and explain that you are just looking for answers and a facts reply will suffice.
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William B. Webb
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pcusack1
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« Reply #28 on: June 23, 2013, 09:05:44 PM »

Thank you.

The next step is to find out where L226 originated.  I'll leave in the hands of geneticists, or anyone else so inclined.
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pcusack1
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« Reply #29 on: June 23, 2013, 10:00:45 PM »

It may be interesting that I have a perfect match to 5 DeLongs  on Y search for 12 markers, but a GD of 1 for the Irish for 12 markers.  My matches are in England and Scotland, not Ireland.  The de Longs were  Kings of France. I'm an L226.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2013, 10:01:23 PM by pcusack1 » Logged
pcusack1
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« Reply #30 on: June 23, 2013, 11:49:27 PM »

The TMRCA for me and an O'Brien is 1277 AD. this coincides with Robert of Scotland.  We now know the Scots are Jews.  this explains why the next king was David II - a Jewish name. 

I think L226 has Jewish origins from the royal line of David or Joseph.

Time will prove me right or wrong. Go to it.
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Dubhthach
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« Reply #31 on: June 24, 2013, 04:11:34 AM »

I'm sorry but 12 markers just don't cut it. At 12 markers you could match with a man who is U106+. L21 (specifically it's parent P312) last shared a common ancestor with U106 on the order of over 4,000 years ago. If you are going to go comparing STR's test to at least 67 markers if not to 111.

I fail to see also what the O'Brien's have to do with David II of Scotland. The O'Brien's are specifically the male line descendants of Brian Bóroimhe (Brian Boru) who died in 1014.

Brian like all Irish kings had their own personal genealogist, no where in his genealogy does he claim a connection to David.
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rms2
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« Reply #32 on: June 24, 2013, 07:26:24 AM »

. . . We now know the Scots are Jews.  
this explains why the next king was David II . . .

We don't know any such thing, because it's not true, and all sorts of people in Christian Europe gave their sons and daughters names from the Bible, like David (and, yes, even Isaac).

L226 is the defining SNP of those in the Irish Type III cluster. Anyone who wants to can take a look at the R-L226 Project and come to his or her own conclusions.

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/R-L226_Project/default.aspx?section=yresults

If one is going to start making startling claims of exotic - even regal - y-dna ancestry, it is customary to have some actual evidence beyond shared popular biblical names and references to Nostradamus.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2013, 07:34:34 AM by rms2 » Logged

samIsaack
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« Reply #33 on: June 24, 2013, 04:11:52 PM »

BTW Cusack is MacIsog or MacIssac as any keychain will tell you as in Abraham, Issac, and Jacob was  Jews.

God Luck!

Actually, Cusack was brought in with the Normans and isn't related to the Gaelic forms of the Isaac surname. The variant forms of MacIsog or MacIosog  are Gaelisations of the Norman name 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cusack

Since you belong to a specific type of L21 that is accepted as Irish, I'd say your family was Native Irish and simply adopted the name. Or your y-line was the result of an illegitimacy. Or your y-line could have been adopted. Also there's the possibility that your Irish family adopted the name in order to acquire land or something of that sort.

Hope this helps.
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Y-Dna: R1b-SRY2627

Mtdna: J1c8
Dubhthach
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« Reply #34 on: June 24, 2013, 04:30:58 PM »

BTW Cusack is MacIsog or MacIssac as any keychain will tell you as in Abraham, Issac, and Jacob was  Jews.

God Luck!

Actually, Cusack was brought in with the Normans and isn't related to the Gaelic forms of the Isaac surname. The variant forms of MacIsog or MacIosog  are Gaelisations of the Norman name 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cusack

Since you belong to a specific type of L21 that is accepted as Irish, I'd say your family was Native Irish and simply adopted the name. Or your y-line was the result of an illegitimacy. Or your y-line could have been adopted. Also there's the possibility that your Irish family adopted the name in order to acquire land or something of that sort.

Hope this helps.

There is also a native name that has been anglisced as Cusack. Which comes from Thomond, the land of the L226 ;)
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rms2
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« Reply #35 on: June 24, 2013, 08:10:05 PM »

Well, that was kind of a fun thread. Things have been too dull around here, anyway.
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samIsaack
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« Reply #36 on: June 24, 2013, 11:33:38 PM »

BTW Cusack is MacIsog or MacIssac as any keychain will tell you as in Abraham, Issac, and Jacob was  Jews.

God Luck!

Actually, Cusack was brought in with the Normans and isn't related to the Gaelic forms of the Isaac surname. The variant forms of MacIsog or MacIosog  are Gaelisations of the Norman name 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cusack

Since you belong to a specific type of L21 that is accepted as Irish, I'd say your family was Native Irish and simply adopted the name. Or your y-line was the result of an illegitimacy. Or your y-line could have been adopted. Also there's the possibility that your Irish family adopted the name in order to acquire land or something of that sort.

Hope this helps.

There is also a native name that has been anglisced as Cusack. Which comes from Thomond, the land of the L226 ;)

Interesting. I'm guessing some form of Isaac in the Gaelic?
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Y-Dna: R1b-SRY2627

Mtdna: J1c8
pcusack1
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« Reply #37 on: June 25, 2013, 12:46:51 AM »

BTW Cusack is MacIsog or MacIssac as any keychain will tell you as in Abraham, Issac, and Jacob was  Jews.

God Luck!

Actually, Cusack was brought in with the Normans and isn't related to the Gaelic forms of the Isaac surname. The variant forms of MacIsog or MacIosog  are Gaelisations of the Norman name 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cusack

Since you belong to a specific type of L21 that is accepted as Irish, I'd say your family was Native Irish and simply adopted the name. Or your y-line was the result of an illegitimacy. Or your y-line could have been adopted. Also there's the possibility that your Irish family adopted the name in order to acquire land or something of that sort.

Hope this helps.

Thank you, but there are two Cusack families in Ireland - one from Dublin the Norman variety; the other from Clare co - ancient Irish.  Confusing I realize.  I always thought I was a Norman.  Not!.  But I still think L226 is not just Irish Royalty but European Royalty (House of Bourbon)
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rms2
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« Reply #38 on: June 25, 2013, 11:05:15 AM »

The question is why you think that.

Where is the L226 and the Irish Type III haplotype on the Continent? Among the French?

Where is there any real, hard, objective evidence of L226 among the Jews or the Khazars?

Why is it so overwhelmingly and obviously Munster Irish in our databases?

Why are the Jews and the Khazars and the French so overwhelmingly NOT L226+?
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seferhabahir
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« Reply #39 on: June 25, 2013, 11:51:16 AM »

The one obvious Jewish cluster (Baltic/1111EE) in L21 is under Z251, but even I have difficulty saying Z251 had ancient Jewish roots (much as I would like to believe it). I'm sure I have some ancient Israelite roots somewhere in my ancestry, but it sure doesn't look like it came out of my DF13 paternal line. It is likely this Jewish line came from the Speyer, Worms, Mainz area of the Rhineland or nearby, and this area was probably full of L21 and Z251 types. I just don't have any real evidence that my L21 ancestors came from ancient Israel. Even Bennett Greenspan would have a hard time saying L21 (or Z251 or L226) had ancient Jewish roots.

Here is a summary for an upcoming talk he will be giving at IAJGS 2013 in Boston in August.

"Haplogroups - What They Are and What They Mean for Jews"  

Haplogroups ... can tell us a lot about our most distant ancestors and even give us an idea of 'when' our ancestors became Jews. As romantic as it is to presume that all of our ancestors stood at Mt. Sinai waiting for Moses to reappear, in truth only some of our ancestors were Jews 3200 years ago--Haplogroups can give us instant clues of when and perhaps where our ancestors joined the Jewish people. The lecture will deal primarily on Ashkenazim, both males and females.

Don't know about you guys, but I'll be in Boston listening to this talk and others.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2013, 11:52:13 AM by seferhabahir » Logged

Y-DNA: R-L21 (Z251+ L583+)

mtDNA: J1c7a

pcusack1
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« Reply #40 on: June 26, 2013, 04:54:13 AM »

Can we say for sure that L226 originated in Ireland?  Couldn't it be possible that L226 is the royal house of Europe - not just Ireland? Capet's came from Aragon, Spain and Machir of Narbonne came from Israel's throne supposedly. Milieus was Royal Jewish  lineage perhaps.
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rms2
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« Reply #41 on: June 26, 2013, 08:26:23 AM »

There wasn't a single "royal house" of Europe. There were a number of them. A few of them have y-dna results already, and none is L226+, except for the line of Brian Boru.

It certainly seems that L226 originated in Ireland. It's believed to be only about 1200 years old or so.

The immediate predecessor SNP of L226, Z253, probably originated on the Continent, but it is much older than L226 and actually has a continental presence. L226 lacks that continental presence and is overwhelmingly Irish.

Irish Type III
« Last Edit: June 26, 2013, 08:35:03 AM by rms2 » Logged

pcusack1
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« Reply #42 on: June 29, 2013, 01:14:51 AM »

The one obvious Jewish cluster (Baltic/1111EE) in L21 is under Z251, but even I have difficulty saying Z251 had ancient Jewish roots (much as I would like to believe it). I'm sure I have some ancient Israelite roots somewhere in my ancestry, but it sure doesn't look like it came out of my DF13 paternal line. It is likely this Jewish line came from the Speyer, Worms, Mainz area of the Rhineland or nearby, and this area was probably full of L21 and Z251 types. I just don't have any real evidence that my L21 ancestors came from ancient Israel. Even Bennett Greenspan would have a hard time saying L21 (or Z251 or L226) had ancient Jewish roots.

Here is a summary for an upcoming talk he will be giving at IAJGS 2013 in Boston in August.

"Haplogroups - What They Are and What They Mean for Jews"  

Haplogroups ... can tell us a lot about our most distant ancestors and even give us an idea of 'when' our ancestors became Jews. As romantic as it is to presume that all of our ancestors stood at Mt. Sinai waiting for Moses to reappear, in truth only some of our ancestors were Jews 3200 years ago--Haplogroups can give us instant clues of when and perhaps where our ancestors joined the Jewish people. The lecture will deal primarily on Ashkenazim, both males and females.

Don't know about you guys, but I'll be in Boston listening to this talk and others.
[/quot

Hugh Capet comes from Tongern Belgium , and before that Stuttgart. 
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pcusack1
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« Reply #43 on: June 29, 2013, 01:18:07 AM »

There wasn't a single "royal house" of Europe. There were a number of them. A few of them have y-dna results already, and none is L226+, except for the line of Brian Boru.

It certainly seems that L226 originated in Ireland. It's believed to be only about 1200 years old or so.

The immediate predecessor SNP of L226, Z253, probably originated on the Continent, but it is much older than L226 and actually has a continental presence. L226 lacks that continental presence and is overwhelmingly Irish.

Irish Type III


I ACCEPT THIS AS THE MOST COMMON ANSWER. I PROBABLY AM IRISH, WHICH IS WHAT I ALWAYS GREW UP BELIEVING.  WE NEED MORE EVIDENCE ON THE ROYAL HOUSES OF EUROPE.  L226 MIGHHT BE MORE THAN JUST IRISH.  IT COULD BE A JACOBS DESCENT.  I'M NO EXPERT. STILL LEARNING...
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rms2
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« Reply #44 on: June 29, 2013, 05:07:40 PM »

Does that seem likely to you? Really?
« Last Edit: June 29, 2013, 05:08:03 PM by rms2 » Logged

inver2b1
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« Reply #45 on: July 01, 2013, 07:12:17 PM »

Well, that was kind of a fun thread. Things have been too dull around here, anyway.

I thought I was in Eupedia for a while.
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« Reply #46 on: July 04, 2013, 10:22:43 PM »

L226 is Jewish. It comes from Mileisus who is from Jewish Khazaria. Its the royal line of Joseph (Ephraim). If you look you'll find it.
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OConnor
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« Reply #47 on: July 04, 2013, 10:26:38 PM »

If R-L21 is the Father of L226, and if L21 was born in Western Europe 4000+/- years ago (in Western Europe) that should say something.

I suspect early L226 people had a different religion altogether from the Jewish faith.

I thought the Mileisus story had him pegged as Scythian.

« Last Edit: July 04, 2013, 10:27:57 PM by OConnor » Logged

R1b1a2a1a1b4


R-DF13**(L21>DF13)
M42+, M45+, M526+, M74+, M89+, M9+, M94+, P108+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, P311+, P312+, P316+, M173+, M269+, M343+, P312+, L21+, DF13+, M207+, P25+, L11+, L138+, L141+, L15+, L150+, L16+, L23+, L51+, L52+, M168+, M173+, M207+, M213+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M343+, P69+, P9.1+, P97+, PK1+, SRY10831.1+, L21+, L226-, M37-, M222-, L96-, L193-, L144-, P66-, SRY2627-, M222-, DF49-, L371-, DF41-, L513-, L555-, L1335-, L1406-, Z251-, L526-, L130-, L144-, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195-, L96-, DF21-, Z255-, DF23-, DF1-, Z253-, M37-, M65-, M73-, M18-, M126-, M153-, M160-, P66-

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rms2
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« Reply #48 on: July 05, 2013, 07:36:32 AM »

L226 is Jewish. It comes from Mileisus who is from Jewish Khazaria. Its the royal line of Joseph (Ephraim). If you look you'll find it.

The burden of proof is with the person making such claims. Why should we look for evidence of your assertions? You are obligated to prove them or at least provide some evidence of them. You have not done any of that.

We have been through all this already. L226 most certainly is NOT Jewish and has no connection to Khazaria or the royal line of Joseph. The Khazars themselves were Turkic converts to Judaism and would have had no genetic connection to Joseph.

The evidence is overwhelming that L226 is Irish and connected to the Dál gCais families of Munster.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2013, 07:37:12 AM by rms2 » Logged

Webb
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« Reply #49 on: July 05, 2013, 02:17:54 PM »

L226 is Jewish. It comes from Mileisus who is from Jewish Khazaria. Its the royal line of Joseph (Ephraim). If you look you'll find it.

The burden of proof is with the person making such claims. Why should we look for evidence of your assertions? You are obligated to prove them or at least provide some evidence of them. You have not done any of that.

We have been through all this already. L226 most certainly is NOT Jewish and has no connection to Khazaria or the royal line of Joseph. The Khazars themselves were Turkic converts to Judaism and would have had no genetic connection to Joseph.

The evidence is overwhelming that L226 is Irish and connected to the Dál gCais families of Munster.

At this point I think the claims about the connections to Joseph are aimed at getting someone's goose.
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William B. Webb
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