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Author Topic: Next steps? L23+ but L51-  (Read 1638 times)
Soulbreaths
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« on: December 01, 2014, 05:20:31 PM »

Our family recently did further testing and learned we are R-L23 (but negative for L51). We understand that is the Armenian Haplotype Modal. However, our heritage is Sicilian. We want to go further in our research to explore the other ethnicities/cultures that may have meshed into our family's Sicilian DNA. Could anyone guide us on our next level of testing or other resources, etc.? In the past, we tested 37 STRs:
DYS393: 12
DYS390: 24
DYS19: 14
DYS391: 11
DYS385: 11-14
DYS426: 12
DYS388: 12
DYS439: 11
DYS3891: 13
DYS392: 13
DYS389II: 29
DYS458: 14
DYS459: 9-10
DYS455: 11
DYS454: 11
DYS447: 26
DYS437: 15
DYS448: 19
DYS449: 29
DYS464: 14-15-16-17
DYS460: 11
Y-GATA-H4: 10
YCAII: 19-23
DYS456: 15
DYS607: 15
DYS576: 18
DYS570: 17
CDY: 37-37
DYS442: 12
DYS438:12

Thank you.
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Maliclavelli
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« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2014, 11:04:47 AM »

Who did say you that yours is the "Armenian Modal Haplotype"? I have your haplotype and am Tuscan from thousands of years. Armenians have pretty only this hapogroup (a few R1b1, a few R-M269), whereas Italy has all these haplotypes from R-V88, to R1b1-L389+, R-M269, R-L23 till R-L51 to all the subclades, above all R-U152. Armenians may have these haplotypes from their origin from the Balkans. Anyway you should know something more about your subclade by testing Z2110/CTS7822. I'd exclude that you are L277 and L584. For understanding if you belong to the subclade of Z2110, i.e. CTS9219, you should have DYS446: if = 14 or more you could belong to the subclade CTS9219, but Italians are above all  Z2110* like me.
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Maliclavelli


YDNA: R-S12460


MtDNA: K1a1b1e

Maliclavelli
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« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2014, 11:55:32 AM »

It seems that your haplotype is common, but it isn't:
D3PG4   Sicul   Unknown    
12   24   14   11   11   14   12   12   11   13   13   29   14   9   10   11   11   26   15   19   29   14   15   16   17   11   10   19   23   15   15   18   17   37   37   12   12
The closest seem these:                                                                                   
3WNZV   Enloe   Unknown    
12   24   14   11   12   15   12   12   12   13   13   29   17   9   10   11   11   26   15   19   29   15   15   15   17   11   10   19   23   15   15   18   17   37   38   12   12                                                                                   
62D6D   Albright   Albany, New York, USA    
12   24   14   11   11   14   12   12   11   13   13   29   15   9   10   11   11   26   14   19   29   14   15   16   16   10   11   19   23   16   15   19   17   36   37   12   12   12   11   13   11   9   15   16   8   10   10   8   10   11   23   24   16   10   12   12   16   8   22   20   12   11   13   11   11   12   12
7K376   Weizman Taznaght, Morocco    
12   24   14   11   11   13   12   12   12   13   13   29   16   9   10   11   11   26   15   20   28   15   15   17   20   11   10   19   19   15   15   18   17   36   37   12   12
but this Jew is very different in some values                                                                           
8PY5M   Villier   Unknown    
12   24   14   11   11   14   12   12   12   14   13   30   15   9   10   11   11   25   15   19   29   14   15   16   16   11   10   19   23   15   16   19   17   37   37   12   12                                                                                   
But another Enloe with DYS393=2 seems to be R-P312:                        WXJ8G   Enloe   York Co., South Carolina, South Carolina, USA    
12   24   14   11   12   15   12   12   12   13   13   29   17   9   10   11   11   26   15   19   29   15   15   15   17   11   10   19   23   15   15   18   17   37   38   12   12   12   12   13   11   9   15   16   8   10   10   8   11   10   23   23   16   10   12   12   15   8   22   19   12   12   13   11   11   12   12
thus we cannot exclude that you too, in spite of DYS393=12, could be not R-L23 but R-P312. Only a SNP test could say that.

Albright: Additional information about Paternal Line: Believe from Stadel, Switzerland
Enloe: Enoch may have immigrated from Scotland or he may have been born in the Maryland Colonies. This DNA project is trying to determine the true facts.

I think that you are R-L23 above all for your low value in DYS458=14.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2014, 12:00:07 PM by Maliclavelli » Logged

Maliclavelli


YDNA: R-S12460


MtDNA: K1a1b1e

Maliclavelli
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« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2014, 12:07:47 PM »

But for the high value in Enoch of DYS446=16 it could be that the test of FTDNA which would demonstrate that he is R-P312 is wrong like in many other cases and that Enoch is R-CTS9219.
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Maliclavelli


YDNA: R-S12460


MtDNA: K1a1b1e

Soulbreaths
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« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2014, 03:58:04 AM »

Thank you, Maliciavelli, for your comments. I'm new to this and appreciate your help, expertise and suggestions.

For various reasons, I had expected some type of Middle Eastern or related to be in our DNA at some point, however far back that may be.

However, to answer your question: Based on an FTDNA online article, I got the idea that being L23+ and L51- put us in the Armenian Haplotype vs. the Atlantic Modal. See snippet below:

R1b1b2a (L23+ L51- L11-): this group is called the Armenian Modal Haplotype and is most common in and around Armenia, but can be seen in significant numbers all-over the Middle East (including Jews) and Greece. It is rare in Central Europe and almost absent from Western Europe.
R1b1b2a1 (L23+ L51+ L11+): this is the basic West Atlantic Modal Haplotype (WAMH). It is the most common haplogroup in Western and Central Europe up to 80% among Irish, Welsh, Scottish and Basque peoples.

Copied from: https://www.familytreedna.com/public/germansinhungary/default.aspx?section=results

Thanks again.
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