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Author Topic: Another proof (but does it need?) of the Italian Refugium?  (Read 955 times)
Maliclavelli
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« on: May 30, 2013, 11:52:43 AM »

When I began to speak of an Italian Refugium (probably during 2007 on Rootsweb, before my banishment), nobody thought it was possible. The refugia in South Europe were three (Franco-Cantabrian, Balkan, Ukrainian). After some years, some Italian researchers hypothesized that perhaps mtDNA U5b3 could have come from here. Meanwhile I have carried tons of letters about many Y and mtDNA haplogroups which seemed rooted in Italy before their expansion, but above all my interest has been concentrated upon Y-hg. R.
Now this interesting paper of Boattini et al., even though still shy in its pretensions, speaks openly of an Italian Refugium.
The Italians tested carry many proofs to all my theories.
For instance these 5 R-M343, which probably are R1b1 (both L389+ and perhaps -):

172   Vicenza   13   25   14   11   12   14   12   12   NA   13   13   30   18   15   19   12   17   12   23   R1b-M343 (xM18,P297,M335)   
409   Macerata   13   24   16   10   12   14   12   13   12   14   12   31   14   15   18   12   16   11   25   R1b-M343 (xM18,P297,M335)   
743   Catania   13   23   15   11   13   14   12   12   14   13   13   31   17   14   18   13   16   12   23   R1b-M343 (xM18,P297,M335)   
745   Catania   13   23   15   10   13   14   12   13   12   13   13   29   14   15   18   12   15   11   24   R1b-M343 (xM18,P297,M335)   
804   OlbiaTempio/Nuoro   13   24   15   11   14   14   12   12   11   13   13   29   16   14   19   13   15   11   23   R1b-M343 (xM18,P297,M335)   

Their variance leaves no doubt that this haplogroup stood in Italy.
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Maliclavelli


YDNA: R-S12460


MtDNA: K1a1b1e

Adrian Ballard
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« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2013, 08:36:34 AM »

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0065441
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Mark Jost
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« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2013, 09:05:49 AM »

When I began to speak of an Italian Refugium (probably during 2007 on Rootsweb, before my banishment), nobody thought it was possible. The refugia in South Europe were three (Franco-Cantabrian, Balkan, Ukrainian). After some years, some Italian researchers hypothesized that perhaps mtDNA U5b3 could have come from here. Meanwhile I have carried tons of letters about many Y and mtDNA haplogroups which seemed rooted in Italy before their expansion, but above all my interest has been concentrated upon Y-hg. R.
Now this interesting paper of Boattini et al., even though still shy in its pretensions, speaks openly of an Italian Refugium.
The Italians tested carry many proofs to all my theories.
For instance these 5 R-M343, which probably are R1b1 (both L389+ and perhaps -):

172   Vicenza   13   25   14   11   12   14   12   12   NA   13   13   30   18   15   19   12   17   12   23   R1b-M343 (xM18,P297,M335)   
409   Macerata   13   24   16   10   12   14   12   13   12   14   12   31   14   15   18   12   16   11   25   R1b-M343 (xM18,P297,M335)   
743   Catania   13   23   15   11   13   14   12   12   14   13   13   31   17   14   18   13   16   12   23   R1b-M343 (xM18,P297,M335)   
745   Catania   13   23   15   10   13   14   12   13   12   13   13   29   14   15   18   12   15   11   24   R1b-M343 (xM18,P297,M335)   
804   OlbiaTempio/Nuoro   13   24   15   11   14   14   12   12   11   13   13   29   16   14   19   13   15   11   23   R1b-M343 (xM18,P297,M335)   

Their variance leaves no doubt that this haplogroup stood in Italy.


What is the STR name in order?

MJost
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148326
Pos: Z245 L459 L21 DF13**
Neg: DF23 L513 L96 L144 Z255 Z253 DF21 DF41 (Z254 P66 P314.2 M37 M222  L563 L526 L226 L195 L193 L192.1 L159.2 L130 DF63 DF5 DF49)
WTYNeg: L555 L371 (L9/L10 L370 L302/L319.1 L554 L564 L577 P69 L626 L627 L643 L679)
Maliclavelli
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« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2013, 12:53:25 PM »

When I began to speak of an Italian Refugium (probably during 2007 on Rootsweb, before my banishment), nobody thought it was possible. The refugia in South Europe were three (Franco-Cantabrian, Balkan, Ukrainian). After some years, some Italian researchers hypothesized that perhaps mtDNA U5b3 could have come from here. Meanwhile I have carried tons of letters about many Y and mtDNA haplogroups which seemed rooted in Italy before their expansion, but above all my interest has been concentrated upon Y-hg. R.
Now this interesting paper of Boattini et al., even though still shy in its pretensions, speaks openly of an Italian Refugium.
The Italians tested carry many proofs to all my theories.
For instance these 5 R-M343, which probably are R1b1 (both L389+ and perhaps -):

172   Vicenza   13   25   14   11   12   14   12   12   NA   13   13   30   18   15   19   12   17   12   23   R1b-M343 (xM18,P297,M335)   
409   Macerata   13   24   16   10   12   14   12   13   12   14   12   31   14   15   18   12   16   11   25   R1b-M343 (xM18,P297,M335)   
743   Catania   13   23   15   11   13   14   12   12   14   13   13   31   17   14   18   13   16   12   23   R1b-M343 (xM18,P297,M335)   
745   Catania   13   23   15   10   13   14   12   13   12   13   13   29   14   15   18   12   15   11   24   R1b-M343 (xM18,P297,M335)   
804   OlbiaTempio/Nuoro   13   24   15   11   14   14   12   12   11   13   13   29   16   14   19   13   15   11   23   R1b-M343 (xM18,P297,M335)   

Their variance leaves no doubt that this haplogroup stood in Italy.


What is the STR name in order?

MJost

Unfortunately my PC is out and I am working with a new one and I haven't all my data. Anyway the paper is for free and also the attachments. I try to reconstruct the markers by memory:
the first twelve are that of ySearch and FTDNA, after we have DYS458, DYS437, DYS448, H4, DYS456, DYS438, DYS635.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2013, 12:54:59 PM by Maliclavelli » Logged

Maliclavelli


YDNA: R-S12460


MtDNA: K1a1b1e

Mark Jost
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« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2013, 06:46:58 PM »


What is the STR name in order?

MJost

Unfortunately my PC is out and I am working with a new one and I haven't all my data. Anyway the paper is for free and also the attachments. I try to reconstruct the markers by memory:
the first twelve are that of ySearch and FTDNA, after we have DYS458, DYS437, DYS448, H4, DYS456, DYS438, DYS635.

Thanks, those STRs appeared correct. I ran the set of R1b*   M343(xM269) from the Balanovsky 2011 study and your set of HTs and then combined them, and posted the TMRCA estimates for all three over on Anthrogenica on a M343 thread.

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?1005-M343*-has-an-elevated-presence-in-northern-Iran-among-several-Iranian-speaking-groups&p=7780&viewfull=1#post7780


MJost
« Last Edit: June 12, 2013, 06:50:49 PM by Mark Jost » Logged

148326
Pos: Z245 L459 L21 DF13**
Neg: DF23 L513 L96 L144 Z255 Z253 DF21 DF41 (Z254 P66 P314.2 M37 M222  L563 L526 L226 L195 L193 L192.1 L159.2 L130 DF63 DF5 DF49)
WTYNeg: L555 L371 (L9/L10 L370 L302/L319.1 L554 L564 L577 P69 L626 L627 L643 L679)
sharongboyd
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« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2013, 06:20:24 PM »

This is totally bizarre perhaps, but are u related to Mark Lee Jost, because I don't think you are the Mark Jost I was married to once upon a time. Haha  His grandfather was from Germany...just stumbled across your name on this forum.  I am a novice working on the McCaleb/McCalip project sort of at this point...And have no clue really what I am doing.  Just weird...coincidence....his mother from Chicago area....his father John Adolf Jost---any comments email to 4states@sbcglobal.net
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Sharon Boyd
Mark Jost
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« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2013, 09:20:51 PM »

This is totally bizarre perhaps, but are u related to Mark Lee Jost, because I don't think you are the Mark Jost I was married to once upon a time. Haha 

No, I think I would have remembered that fact. LOL. No relation. Jost is not my biological surname.

MJost
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148326
Pos: Z245 L459 L21 DF13**
Neg: DF23 L513 L96 L144 Z255 Z253 DF21 DF41 (Z254 P66 P314.2 M37 M222  L563 L526 L226 L195 L193 L192.1 L159.2 L130 DF63 DF5 DF49)
WTYNeg: L555 L371 (L9/L10 L370 L302/L319.1 L554 L564 L577 P69 L626 L627 L643 L679)
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