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Author Topic: News: A Member of the Baltic Cluster Tests Z251+!  (Read 956 times)
rms2
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« on: May 15, 2013, 06:44:49 PM »

Hey! A representative of the Baltic Cluster, whose members, thus far, are all Ashkenazim, tested Z251+ today: ancestral surname Yurzditsky, kit 193834.

That seems pretty big news to me.
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seferhabahir
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« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2013, 01:36:38 AM »

Hey! A representative of the Baltic Cluster, whose members, thus far, are all Ashkenazim, tested Z251+ today: ancestral surname Yurzditsky, kit 193834.

That seems pretty big news to me.

Hey! That is big news (especially for me) since that's my kit!!!

L583+ would now be underneath Z251. At least that is my learned assumption, because there is not really any possibility that the other Z251+  tested people would be L583+ since only three of the Baltic Cluster are L583+ and the rest that have tested are L583-
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Y-DNA: R-L21 (Z251+ L583+)

mtDNA: J1c7a

seferhabahir
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« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2013, 01:46:07 AM »

L583+ would now be underneath Z251. At least that is my learned assumption, because there is not really any possibility that the other Z251+  tested people would be L583+ since only three of the Baltic Cluster are L583+ and the rest that have tested are L583-

Well, certainly Godwin and McNaught are Z251+ L583- based on their recent Geno 2.0 results, and I'll take bets that all the other non-Baltic Cluster Z251+ are L583- as well.
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Y-DNA: R-L21 (Z251+ L583+)

mtDNA: J1c7a

rms2
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« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2013, 03:56:12 AM »

I agree.

I would like to see more continentals test for Z251 now that we have discovered that the Baltic Cluster is Z251+.

I must admit I was totally surprised when I saw that positive result, but it is cool.
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Maliclavelli
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« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2013, 08:31:50 AM »

I was totally surprised...

Why? I have written a lot, and from many years, about the possible origin of this "Balkan cluster" from some introgression in the Jewish pool probably in France or in the Rhine region. Also recently I have written something, and the spread and the ancientness of this subclade of R-L21 makes me curious about that Italian guy from Ravenna, linked to this cluster, I excluded to be R-L21, given its extreme rarity in my country.
Probably that American found comes from the Isles, due to his two mutations.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2013, 11:51:24 AM by Maliclavelli » Logged

Maliclavelli


YDNA: R-S12460


MtDNA: K1a1b1e

Jdean
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« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2013, 09:04:04 AM »

Hey! That is big news (especially for me) since that's my kit!!!


Great news, congrats !!!  :)
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Y-DNA R-DF49*
MtDNA J1c2e
Kit No. 117897
Ysearch 3BMC9

seferhabahir
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« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2013, 11:09:40 AM »

Hey! That is big news (especially for me) since that's my kit!!!


Great news, congrats !!!  :)

I think we will see that Z251 is almost as old as DF13 when more tests come in.
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Y-DNA: R-L21 (Z251+ L583+)

mtDNA: J1c7a

seferhabahir
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« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2013, 11:48:02 AM »

Thomas Krahn has now put L583 underneath Z251 in his draft L21 tree.
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Y-DNA: R-L21 (Z251+ L583+)

mtDNA: J1c7a

seferhabahir
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« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2013, 11:52:41 AM »

Yowee!! What a week...

282013    Judel Zakon, b. 1843 (Ashkenazi Levite)

has just come back as the fourth known L583+ (I asked him to test for it because of the Levite designation). Unfortunately, there are only 12 markers but this kit is in the L21 project. Pretty much proves my point about Baltic Cluster Levites being L583+
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Y-DNA: R-L21 (Z251+ L583+)

mtDNA: J1c7a

Jdean
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« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2013, 11:55:38 AM »

Hey! That is big news (especially for me) since that's my kit!!!


Great news, congrats !!!  :)

I think we will see that Z251 is almost as old as DF13 when more tests come in.

And widespread, looks like it could suck up a good proportion of DF13 question mark too !!
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Y-DNA R-DF49*
MtDNA J1c2e
Kit No. 117897
Ysearch 3BMC9

rms2
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« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2013, 06:58:05 PM »

Okay, many of you no doubt know that Irvine, kit 22874, who is L555+, got a Z251+ result a few days ago. That brings both L583 and L555 under Z251.

We have just two tests outstanding before Z251 can be added to ISOGG's R Tree:

CTS4466+: Carroll, kit N59178

L144+: Prosser, kit 57993


I am looking forward to adding a Z251+ category to the R-L21 Plus project, but I want to wait for those two test results in case one or both of them also ends up under Z251.

It's also just a good idea, I think, to wait for ISOGG before creating new SNP categories for the project's Y-DNA Results pages.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2013, 06:58:44 PM by rms2 » Logged

seferhabahir
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« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2013, 07:46:01 PM »

Okay, many of you no doubt know that Irvine, kit 22874, who is L555+, got a Z251+ result a few days ago. That brings both L583 and L555 under Z251.

We have just two tests outstanding before Z251 can be added to ISOGG's R Tree:

CTS4466+: Carroll, kit N59178

L144+: Prosser, kit 57993


I am looking forward to adding a Z251+ category to the R-L21 Plus project, but I want to wait for those two test results in case one or both of them also ends up under Z251.


I'm going to donate funds to the R-L21 Plus Project for testing two Baltic Cluster candidates that are far enough from me at 67 markers to meet the newly relaxed ISOGG diversity requirements. One of them is already a project member, but I will have to get the other one to join before we can ask if they would allow a test for L583. These two don't look to me like they would test positive, but maybe they might and it's worth trying, because at least I have had some email interactions with both of them in the past.
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Y-DNA: R-L21 (Z251+ L583+)

mtDNA: J1c7a

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