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rms2
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« on: May 12, 2013, 07:44:29 AM »

This forum seems to be really slow moving these days, so I figure there is no harm in posting some personal genetic genealogy stuff. Feel free to talk about yours, as well.

Stephens, kit 208061, who not only has a variant of my surname but is one of my closest matches at 67 markers (64/67), has ordered an upgrade to 111 markers. I'm happy about that. I hope the match holds up!

Our three differences come on two fast-mutating markers: CDYa,b and 557. We are two off at CDY, where I have an apparent RecLoH, 38-38, and he has 37-39. At 557 we are one off. I have 17 there, and he has 16. If our difference at CDY is indeed due to a RecLoH, then it may really be only a single step and not the two it appears to be.

Both of us have tested DF41+.

So you see, the match is a pretty good one, especially given the surnames, which are essentially the same (mine is Stevens).

He can trace his mdka to Caswell County, North Carolina, 1789. Mine was born in 1804 in Wheeling, Ohio County, West Virginia (part of Virginia back then). We can't connect our lines yet, but every piece of the puzzle helps.
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« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2013, 08:42:27 AM »

You know, awhile back a lady emailed me about our Family Finder match (I forget how many cm's it was). The only possible surname connection she could see was Stevens, and for her the connection came via a female traced to a male Stevens mdka who lived in Spotsylvania County, Virginia, in the 17th century but who had emigrated from Gloucester in England. I don't even remember the lady's name. We exchanged emails briefly but then lost touch because we weren't really able to confirm the connection, since I can't get my y line past my 3rd great grandfather, who was born in 1804.

I live in Spotsylvania County, Virginia, so the possibility that my immigrant y ancestor lived here is intriguing. I know there are a bunch of old Stevenses and Stephenses from the 17th and 18th centuries buried at various places around here. It would be weird indeed if my immigrant ancestor were buried 5 or 10 minutes from my house.

An immigrant ancestor arriving in Virginia in the 17th century makes sense, though. One branch of his descendants could have gone to Caswell County, North Carolina, which is not far from the Virginia border, while another (my line) could have gone north, up to the Wheeling area. Wheeling is on the old National Road and on the Ohio River, both of which were important for the movement of goods and people west and south.
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« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2013, 10:36:42 AM »

RMS2
Your Stevens/Stephens TMRCA is 262 ybp plus or minus 135 years.  That would be around 9/10 generations depending on the Stephens generation average.  I have found from 25 years experience that a productive approach is to go to the courthouses of the counties of interest to conduct genealogy research.  There are some surprises to be found in old records.
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« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2013, 12:17:48 PM »

This forum seems to be really slow moving these days, so I figure there is no harm in posting some personal genetic genealogy stuff. Feel free to talk about yours, as well.

Stephens, kit 208061, who not only has a variant of my surname but is one of my closest matches at 67 markers (64/67), has ordered an upgrade to 111 markers. I'm happy about that. I hope the match holds up!

Our three differences come on two fast-mutating markers: CDYa,b and 557. We are two off at CDY, where I have an apparent RecLoH, 38-38, and he has 37-39. At 557 we are one off. I have 17 there, and he has 16. If our difference at CDY is indeed due to a RecLoH, then it may really be only a single step and not the two it appears to be.

Both of us have tested DF41+.

So you see, the match is a pretty good one, especially given the surnames, which are essentially the same (mine is Stevens).

He can trace his mdka to Caswell County, North Carolina, 1789. Mine was born in 1804 in Wheeling, Ohio County, West Virginia (part of Virginia back then). We can't connect our lines yet, but every piece of the puzzle helps.

This is quite a small sample so may or may not be that relevant but we have two lots of two in my group in the Stedman surname project that have tested up to 67 loci and have common MDKAs.

The first two share a common ancestor born about 1777  and have one mutation between them, there are jointly 12 generations back to the common ancestor.

Second lot includes me and there are two mutations (both in my line) back to the common ancestor who was born 1733, there are a combined 14 generations back to the common ancestor.

This gives 3 mutations in 26 generations or an average of 1 mutation in just under 9 generations on average.
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« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2013, 02:56:54 PM »

"This forum seems to be really slow moving these days, so I figure there is no harm in posting some personal genetic genealogy stuff. Feel free to talk about yours, as well."

Since RMS2 has broken the ice in this forum thread I will relate my unusual and probably unique Genealogy/DNA story.  My direct paternal line 7th great-grandparents are Jacques Miville-dit-Deschenes and Catherine Baillon who were married on 12 November 1669 in Quebec City, Canada. They had four sons, in order of birth, being Charles, Jean, Jean-Charles and Robert.  A number of years ago myself and two distant cousins took the 46 marker DNA test offered by Relative Genetics, since acquired by Ancestry.com.  We knew that each of us descended from  a different son (the 3 elder sons) with my ancestor being Jean-Charles.  Consequently, our  MRCA is Jacques Miville, with each of the three of us being 9 generations removed.  However, we already had solid genealogy paper trails for each line with all births, marriages and deaths duly recorded.  The 46 marker DNA tests showed two mutations between the three of us thereby validating DNA testing as a complement to genealogy research.  It is not often that three documented parallel 9-generation ascendancy lines to an MRCA  can be correlated with DNA tests.
The story does not end here.  Catherine Baillon is an unusual individual who is the subject of a research project presented in the following dedicated website:  http://habitant.org/baillon/index.htm The descendants of Jacques and his brother Francois are now identified by over 50 different surname variants. Many of these descendants are not aware of their true ascendancy and lack the paper trail we had.  Consequently, DNA testing can be used to confirm their ascendancy to Jacques Miville-dit-Deschenes.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2013, 06:52:25 PM by rocketman » Logged

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« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2013, 04:37:21 PM »

This is quite a small sample so may or may not be that relevant but we have two lots of two in my group in the Stedman surname project that have tested up to 67 loci and have common MDKAs.

The first two share a common ancestor born about 1777  and have one mutation between them, there are jointly 12 generations back to the common ancestor.

Second lot includes me and there are two mutations (both in my line) back to the common ancestor who was born 1733, there are a combined 14 generations back to the common ancestor.

This gives 3 mutations in 26 generations or an average of 1 mutation in just under 9 generations on average.

As a quick method to check your data, I used MarkoH's 2012 Rates and at 67 markers to calculated a factor number of 5.8. So what ever your number is of the average years per generation in your line you can multiply that number by my factor. Example 5.8 x 30 is 173 years per mutation.

MJost
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« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2013, 06:44:51 PM »


As a quick method to check your data, I used MarkoH's 2012 Rates and at 67 markers to calculated a factor number of 5.8. So what ever your number is of the average years per generation in your line you can multiply that number by my factor. Example 5.8 x 30 is 173 years per mutation.

MJost

But you can't 'check my data', they're real examples.

Though you could use them to check Marko's : )

However This is a small sample.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2013, 06:47:32 PM by Jdean » Logged

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« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2013, 07:49:30 PM »

RMS2
Your Stevens/Stephens TMRCA is 262 ybp plus or minus 135 years.  That would be around 9/10 generations depending on the Stephens generation average.  I have found from 25 years experience that a productive approach is to go to the courthouses of the counties of interest to conduct genealogy research.  There are some surprises to be found in old records.

That makes sense. I figured about 300 years, give or take, which would mean a common y-dna ancestor in the mid-17th century.

We've both had FTDNA's Family Finder test and don't match each other, so our common ancestor has to be back a ways so that the common autosomal stuff (if there is any left) is scanty enough not to show up on Family Finder.
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« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2013, 09:11:47 PM »

But you can't 'check my data', they're real examples.

Though you could use them to check Marko's : )

However This is a small sample.
Ha, Marko could and would run circles around most of us.

It's all probabilties, less for some, more for others.  For you 117897  & 65763 from the 49*-1017 variety, only two Haplotypes at 30 years per generation:

IntraClade Coalescence Age

Gen      +-Gen       YBP     +OR-YBP
5.3       +-7.5       158.4   +-224.0

Your CI @ 99.73% your range would be +-11.2 SD Generations that max's at 16.5 generations.

Just thoughts.
MJost
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« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2013, 06:12:50 AM »

But you can't 'check my data', they're real examples.

Though you could use them to check Marko's : )

However This is a small sample.
Ha, Marko could and would run circles around most of us.

It's all probabilties, less for some, more for others.  For you 117897  & 65763 from the 49*-1017 variety, only two Haplotypes at 30 years per generation:

IntraClade Coalescence Age

Gen      +-Gen       YBP     +OR-YBP
5.3       +-7.5       158.4   +-224.0

Your CI @ 99.73% your range would be +-11.2 SD Generations that max's at 16.5 generations.

Just thoughts.
MJost

hmmm, I don't think I'd fancy taking Marko head on in a discussion about maths, hiding to nothing springs to mind :)

Nevertheless I still think the numbers that come out when you use his mutation rates aren't quite right, which makes me think either the numbers or they way they are being used needs tinkering.

Of course the two examples I gave could be unrepresentative but again I don't think so, in most of the cases I know of (not many) where there is a good paper trail between two people stretching into the 18th C. the genetic distance is in the order of 1 or 2 @ 67 loci.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2013, 06:18:01 AM by Jdean » Logged

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« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2013, 12:02:20 AM »

. . .

Stephens, kit 208061, who not only has a variant of my surname but is one of my closest matches at 67 markers (64/67), has ordered an upgrade to 111 markers. I'm happy about that. I hope the match holds up!

. . .

Both of us have tested DF41+.

So you see, the match is a pretty good one, especially given the surnames, which are essentially the same (mine is Stevens).

He can trace his mdka to Caswell County, North Carolina, 1789. Mine was born in 1804 in Wheeling, Ohio County, West Virginia (part of Virginia back then). We can't connect our lines yet, but every piece of the puzzle helps.


The upgrade to 111 markers has come in. The match held up pretty well. We only picked up one more unit of genetic distance. He and I are four off at 111 markers. Stephens is my closest match at 111, and I am his closest match.

The differences between Stephens and me come at the following markers:

CDY

Him: 37-39 Me: 38-38

557

Him: 16 Me: 17

532

Him: 13 Me: 12

That's it.

Since we have the same surname but for a slight spelling variation, I am pretty jazzed about this match.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2013, 12:02:58 AM by rms2 » Logged

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« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2013, 01:53:38 AM »

I think you mentioned Gloucestershire as a potential link in a previous post? If so, I'd be tempted to look up Steanbridge Mill at Painswick. It's between Stroud and Gloucester - approx 3 milers from both. I think Stean was a shortened version of Steven.
I'd contact Glos Archives & Records to find out who this Steven was. Many of these mills go back to medieval times. I'd also find any Abbeys in the region & search their archives as they may have mentions of the original mill owner.
Cheers,
Bob
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« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2013, 05:44:08 AM »

I think you mentioned Gloucestershire as a potential link in a previous post? If so, I'd be tempted to look up Steanbridge Mill at Painswick. It's between Stroud and Gloucester - approx 3 milers from both. I think Stean was a shortened version of Steven.
I'd contact Glos Archives & Records to find out who this Steven was. Many of these mills go back to medieval times. I'd also find any Abbeys in the region & search their archives as they may have mentions of the original mill owner.
Cheers,
Bob

If you said it in a Gloucestershire accent though you probably wouldn't be to far off Stan Bridge. There's a Stancomb just to the south and a Standish Park a little further to the west.
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« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2013, 11:36:27 AM »

I'm not sure about the Gloucester thing. That info came via a Family Finder match and can't be confirmed.

I'm thinking we're all Welsh, but I suppose we could be just the sort of general west-of-Britain Britons who would be spread all over the place.
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« Reply #14 on: June 02, 2013, 01:42:27 AM »

Using Ancestry's Census Surname Percentage maps, I found these figures for Stephens' frequency:

Cornwall 13%
Glos 8%
Glamorgan 8%
Devon 7%
Lancs 5%
Monmouth 4%
Worcs 3%
Yorks 3%
Hereford 2%
Pembroke 2%

I'd guess the Lancs & Yorks figures may be due to the pull of labour to industrial (mining) regions. The very high levels of your surname in Cornwall is probably worth further investigation.

Check St Stephen-in-Brannel, Cornwall - a mining centre. Lovely part of the country. Also, dial up Stephens via the free Cornwall Online Census Project - I'd gues there'll be lots of Stephens' on that!

Cornish tin miners may have headed to Wales as their tin mines closed?

Cheers,
Bob
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« Reply #15 on: June 02, 2013, 09:08:51 AM »

RMS2
Your Stevens/Stephens TMRCA is 262 ybp plus or minus 135 years.  That would be around 9/10 generations depending on the Stephens generation average.  I have found from 25 years experience that a productive approach is to go to the courthouses of the counties of interest to conduct genealogy research.  There are some surprises to be found in old records.

That's very good advice.  Virginia started an initiative two years ago to digitize the court records.  The county courthouses turned over the records to the county libraries who then put them on microfilm.  One copy was retained at the library and the other copy was sent to the library of Virginia, in Richmond.  If you go to the library of Virginia's website you can run a search of the chancery records.  Some counties are finished, such as Rockingham.  The easiest way to search is using yahoo or google and put in chancery plus spotsylvania plus the last name.  My ggggrandma was a brick wall for a long time.  She married my ggggrandfather in Loudoun county around 1840.  In the 1850, 1860, and 1870 census records she was listed as being born on the sea.  So no clues there.  There was a large Copeland family from Ireland in Loudoun at the time but they all came over in the late 1700's, as her name was Jane Ann Copeland, I thought there was a chance they were related.  This past year I found the link to the chancery records, by shear luck as I run her name on the Internet a few times a year.  But the synopsis gives my ggggrandpas name, as he had to claim property for her because of tge laws at the time.  Anyway the synopsis said the plaintiff was Townsend Tribby and the defendant was a William Copeland.  I knew right off the bat that William must of been a make relative of some sort.  I contacted the library of Virginia and they made copies for me for around 30 dollars.  It is a little difficult to read as they were handwritten from around 1870.  I was able to confirm that William was Jane's brother.  He was born in Ireland, and William and Jane had two other siblings who had children named in the will.  So I found out a lot more information than what I had expected.  William was the oldest so he and at least the other two were born in Ireland and Jane was born on the sea in route.  I had always thought that maybe there was a touch of dramatics on the census records.  I don't know if spotsylvania is finished digitizing the records, but its worth a shot.
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« Reply #16 on: June 02, 2013, 01:50:48 PM »

Using Ancestry's Census Surname Percentage maps, I found these figures for Stephens' frequency:

Cornwall 13%
Glos 8%
Glamorgan 8%
Devon 7%
Lancs 5%
Monmouth 4%
Worcs 3%
Yorks 3%
Hereford 2%
Pembroke 2%

I'd guess the Lancs & Yorks figures may be due to the pull of labour to industrial (mining) regions. The very high levels of your surname in Cornwall is probably worth further investigation.

Check St Stephen-in-Brannel, Cornwall - a mining centre. Lovely part of the country. Also, dial up Stephens via the free Cornwall Online Census Project - I'd gues there'll be lots of Stephens' on that!

Cornish tin miners may have headed to Wales as their tin mines closed?

Cheers,
Bob

I know Cornwall probably has more Stevenses in it than anyplace else in Britain. We were in Colonial Williamsburg here in Virginia once and ran into a family from Cornwall (I don't remember their surname - it was years ago). When we introduced ourselves, they remarked that there are a lot of Stevenses in Cornwall.

But most of my best matches have Welsh surnames. Webb is an exception, but they stand by themselves in the Webb Project.
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« Reply #17 on: June 02, 2013, 01:54:00 PM »

RMS2
Your Stevens/Stephens TMRCA is 262 ybp plus or minus 135 years.  That would be around 9/10 generations depending on the Stephens generation average.  I have found from 25 years experience that a productive approach is to go to the courthouses of the counties of interest to conduct genealogy research.  There are some surprises to be found in old records.

That's very good advice.  Virginia started an initiative two years ago to digitize the court records.  The county courthouses turned over the records to the county libraries who then put them on microfilm.  One copy was retained at the library and the other copy was sent to the library of Virginia, in Richmond.  If you go to the library of Virginia's website you can run a search of the chancery records . . .

I'll give that a shot, but I'll have to start where I am sure my family was, and that was up in Ohio County, in the Northern Panhandle of what is now West Virginia. That was part of Virginia back in 1804, when my 3rd great grandfather was born in Wheeling.
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« Reply #18 on: June 02, 2013, 01:56:52 PM »

RMS2
Your Stevens/Stephens TMRCA is 262 ybp plus or minus 135 years.  That would be around 9/10 generations depending on the Stephens generation average.  I have found from 25 years experience that a productive approach is to go to the courthouses of the counties of interest to conduct genealogy research.  There are some surprises to be found in old records.

That's very good advice.  Virginia started an initiative two years ago to digitize the court records.  The county courthouses turned over the records to the county libraries who then put them on microfilm.  One copy was retained at the library and the other copy was sent to the library of Virginia, in Richmond.  If you go to the library of Virginia's website you can run a search of the chancery records . . .

I'll give that a shot, but I'll have to start where I am sure my family was, and that was up in Ohio County, in the Northern Panhandle of what is now West Virginia. That was part of Virginia back in 1804, when my 3rd great grandfather was born in Wheeling.

That might be harder.  West Virginia is set up just like it is here in Pennsylvania with Burroughs, townships, then counties.  Virginia is nice because everything is run at the county seat.
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« Reply #19 on: June 03, 2013, 11:20:17 AM »

For rms2,

What are the names of the two Stevens/Stephens 3rd great-grandfathers who may be connected?  Thank you.
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« Reply #20 on: June 03, 2013, 07:04:30 PM »

For rms2,

What are the names of the two Stevens/Stephens 3rd great-grandfathers who may be connected?  Thank you.

Mine is Auguston Stevens, born 05 Feb 1804 in Wheeling, Ohio County, West Virginia.

His is William Stephens, born 08 Feb 1789, Caswell County, North Carolina.
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« Reply #21 on: June 05, 2013, 11:40:53 AM »

For rms2,
A possible common ancestor for Auguston Stevens and William Stephens is Joseph Stevens born in Gloucestor County, Virginia ca 1692.  I cannot vouch for the accuracy of this data, however, I believe that there is a better than 50 percent probability that Joseph Stevens is the common ancestor.

The ancestral path for Auguston Stevens is as follows:
Auguston Stevens born on 5 february 1804 in Wheeling, Ohio County, VA the son of James Stevens.
James Stevens born in 1784 in western VA or PA the son of Thomas Stevens.
Thomas Stevens born in Spotsylvania County, VA in 1762 the son of Richard Stevens.
Richard Stevens born in Caroline County, VA in 1736 the son of Joseph Stevens.
Joseph Stevens was born ca 1692 in Gloucestor County, VA.

The ancestral path for William Stephens is as follows:
William Stephens born on 8 February 1789 in Sampson County, NC the son of Hardy Stephens/Stevens.
Hardy Stephens/Stevens born in 1749 in New Hanover County, NC  the son of John Stevens.
John Stevens born in 1725 in Caroline County, VA the son of Joseph Stevens.
Joseph Stevens was born ca 1692 in Gloucestor County, VA.

This exercise illustrates how difficult it is to validate and correlate the existence and timing of a Most Recent Common Ancestor.
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« Reply #22 on: June 05, 2013, 06:46:06 PM »

For rms2,
A possible common ancestor for Auguston Stevens and William Stephens is Joseph Stevens born in Gloucestor County, Virginia ca 1692.  I cannot vouch for the accuracy of this data, however, I believe that there is a better than 50 percent probability that Joseph Stevens is the common ancestor.

The ancestral path for Auguston Stevens is as follows:
Auguston Stevens born on 5 february 1804 in Wheeling, Ohio County, VA the son of James Stevens.
James Stevens born in 1784 in western VA or PA the son of Thomas Stevens.
Thomas Stevens born in Spotsylvania County, VA in 1762 the son of Richard Stevens.
Richard Stevens born in Caroline County, VA in 1736 the son of Joseph Stevens.
Joseph Stevens was born ca 1692 in Gloucestor County, VA.

The ancestral path for William Stephens is as follows:
William Stephens born on 8 February 1789 in Sampson County, NC the son of Hardy Stephens/Stevens.
Hardy Stephens/Stevens born in 1749 in New Hanover County, NC  the son of John Stevens.
John Stevens born in 1725 in Caroline County, VA the son of Joseph Stevens.
Joseph Stevens was born ca 1692 in Gloucestor County, VA.

This exercise illustrates how difficult it is to validate and correlate the existence and timing of a Most Recent Common Ancestor.


Wow! Thanks, rocketman.

Can you give me your sources for this info? I'd like to be able to replicate your findings.

How did you get Sampson County, NC, for the birthplace of William Stephens in 1789? He is supposed to have been born in Caswell County, NC.
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« Reply #23 on: June 15, 2013, 08:10:45 PM »

Two more of my closest matches have ordered an upgrade to 111 markers, and one of them has my surname.

They are Edmonds (his biological father was a Stevens), kit 212967, and Samuel, kit N104746.

This should be interesting.
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