World Families Forums - U152> L2> Z49> Z142+ (L594-, L562 L552 / L553 not tested) also L20- and L196-

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Author Topic: U152> L2> Z49> Z142+ (L594-, L562 L552 / L553 not tested) also L20- and L196-  (Read 987 times)
Curtis Pigman(Pigmon)
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« on: April 10, 2013, 10:19:25 AM »

Okay, I finally ordered my test for L562!  I waited until it was painful to wait any longer because  it may be the last one I can test.  Does anyone have any ideas about my group?

Concentration in what countries?

The thing about L2 is that the closest matches I have at 67 markers are around GD of 15 out of 67 tested surnames Bourbon and Perry.

It looks to me like U.K., France and around the Swiss Alps from Steve Gilbert's wonderful map:

Z49 and derived SNPs

http://maps.google.ca maps/ms?msid=205516752424012974045.0004ae1dbc422db616b92&msa=0&ll=54.162434,7.207031&spn=23.188209,66.621094  
« Last Edit: April 10, 2013, 10:26:40 AM by Curtis Pigman(Pigmon) » Logged

R1b1a2a1a1b3c3a L2+ Z49+ Z142+ (L20-,L196-,and L562-)
ysearch.org ID ZHHCY

Website:  curtisnsissy.tripod.com
Mitchell-since-1893
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« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2013, 03:49:23 PM »

I'm patiently waiting for the a la carte Z150 to come out, as I've done all the others; and am sitting in the Z142+, L594-, L562- bin with 17 other compadres.
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delegz
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« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2013, 01:10:48 PM »

Four of us in this grouping so far.....zur Bruegg, Skinner, Grazouille, and Mason.....plus Langley, who is waiting to be told that he is -L562, belong to a cluster or maybe "quasi-clade" because we all have a pretty stable micro allele of 13.2 at DYS 385b, besides being Z142+. We also tend to share similar or identical allele values for a few other markers, such as DYS 481 = 24, DYS 389i = 14 or 15, and DYS 389ii = 31. Credit for identifying this cluster in 2010 goes to argiedude.

delegz
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Curtis Pigman(Pigmon)
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« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2013, 03:02:14 PM »

Four of us in this grouping so far.....zur Bruegg, Skinner, Grazouille, and Mason.....plus Langley, who is waiting to be told that he is -L562, belong to a cluster or maybe "quasi-clade" because we all have a pretty stable micro allele of 13.2 at DYS 385b, besides being Z142+. We also tend to share similar or identical allele values for a few other markers, such as DYS 481 = 24, DYS 389i = 14 or 15, and DYS 389ii = 31. Credit for identifying this cluster in 2010 goes to argiedude.

delegz

Are these from the U152 and Subclades project?  I believe they are.  Also who is argiedude?
« Last Edit: April 11, 2013, 03:59:25 PM by Curtis Pigman(Pigmon) » Logged

R1b1a2a1a1b3c3a L2+ Z49+ Z142+ (L20-,L196-,and L562-)
ysearch.org ID ZHHCY

Website:  curtisnsissy.tripod.com
delegz
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« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2013, 05:34:58 PM »

Four of us in this grouping so far.....zur Bruegg, Skinner, Grazouille, and Mason.....plus Langley, who is waiting to be told that he is -L562, belong to a cluster or maybe "quasi-clade" because we all have a pretty stable micro allele of 13.2 at DYS 385b, besides being Z142+. We also tend to share similar or identical allele values for a few other markers, such as DYS 481 = 24, DYS 389i = 14 or 15, and DYS 389ii = 31. Credit for identifying this cluster in 2010 goes to argiedude.

delegz

Are these from the U152 and Subclades project?  I believe they are.  Also who is argiedude?


Yes, from the U152 and Subclades project.

Finding others who potentially have 11/13.2 and are Z142+ is like looking for a needle in a haystack. For example, only .043%, or 31 out of 72,228 alleles sampled at DYS 385a/b by the Sorenson Molecular Genealogy Foundation and appearing in their Y-Chromosome Database had 13.2. And this includes those with 13.2 who are from other haplogroups. I wish FTDNA would finally let all their customers with micro alleles know that they have them.

I'm ultimately curious whether those of us who are Z142+ share a more unique SNP downstream, so I wonder whether one of us should apply to Walk the Y.

argiedude was last active here at the end of 2010.

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Curtis Pigman(Pigmon)
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« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2013, 09:11:20 PM »

Apparently I am not in the L2 cluster discovered by argiedude. 

My DYS481=22, DYS385a=11, DYS385b=14, 389i=13, and 389ii=29. 

As far as the micro allele for DYS 385b, I can send in a ticket to Genebase and see if they will answer me for my results.  Can't hurt to try.


Four of us in this grouping so far.....zur Bruegg, Skinner, Grazouille, and Mason.....plus Langley, who is waiting to be told that he is -L562, belong to a cluster or maybe "quasi-clade" because we all have a pretty stable micro allele of 13.2 at DYS 385b, besides being Z142+. We also tend to share similar or identical allele values for a few other markers, such as DYS 481 = 24, DYS 389i = 14 or 15, and DYS 389ii = 31. Credit for identifying this cluster in 2010 goes to argiedude.

delegz


Are these from the U152 and Subclades project?  I believe they are.  Also who is argiedude?


Yes, from the U152 and Subclades project.

Finding others who potentially have 11/13.2 and are Z142+ is like looking for a needle in a haystack. For example, only .043%, or 31 out of 72,228 alleles sampled at DYS 385a/b by the Sorenson Molecular Genealogy Foundation and appearing in their Y-Chromosome Database had 13.2. And this includes those with 13.2 who are from other haplogroups. I wish FTDNA would finally let all their customers with micro alleles know that they have them.

I'm ultimately curious whether those of us who are Z142+ share a more unique SNP downstream, so I wonder whether one of us should apply to Walk the Y.

argiedude was last active here at the end of 2010.



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R1b1a2a1a1b3c3a L2+ Z49+ Z142+ (L20-,L196-,and L562-)
ysearch.org ID ZHHCY

Website:  curtisnsissy.tripod.com
Curtis Pigman(Pigmon)
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« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2013, 04:18:02 PM »

Just as an update I have gotten my L562 results and here is where I am at this point:

R1b1a2a1a1b3c3a   U152> L2> Z49> Z142+ and L20- L196- L562- L594-

It think Mitchell is in the same bucket as me and I was thinking the same about
zur Bruegg, Skinner, Grazouille, Mason and Langley until I re-read the post above from delegz where the DYS 385b is a 13.2 micro allele.  At DYS 385b I am 14.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2013, 05:01:41 PM by Curtis Pigman(Pigmon) » Logged

R1b1a2a1a1b3c3a L2+ Z49+ Z142+ (L20-,L196-,and L562-)
ysearch.org ID ZHHCY

Website:  curtisnsissy.tripod.com
Mitchell-since-1893
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« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2013, 10:48:53 PM »

In the Z142+ section:  Just looking at the slower mutation rate alleles and the off modals I noted the following; listed from slower to higher mutation rate.

The off modals
DYS425:  Greenwell
DYS436:  Fay
DYS490:  Greenwell
DYS492:  Grazouille,   Langley
DYS392:  Foakes
DYS568:  Graves, 1620
DYS438:  Grazouille,   Langley, Riccio
DYS537:  Greenwell
DYS565:  Skinner, Mason
DYS437:  Graves, 1620, Foakes, Skinner,   Fay, Mason
YCAII-2:  Skinner, Mason

« Last Edit: June 02, 2013, 10:12:08 AM by Mitchell-since-1893 » Logged
delegz
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« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2013, 05:05:29 PM »

In the Z142+ section:  Just looking at the slower mutation rate alleles and the off modals I noted the following; listed from slower to higher mutation rate.

The off modals
DYS425:  Greenwell
DYS436:  Fay
DYS490:  Greenwell
DYS492:  Grazouille,   Langley
DYS392:  Foakes
DYS568:  Graves, 1620
DYS438:  Grazouille,   Langley, Riccio
DYS537:  Greenwell
DYS565:  Skinner, Mason
DYS437:  Graves, 1620, Foakes, Skinner,   Fay, Mason
YCAII-2:  Skinner, Mason



And for DYS481 ?
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Mitchell-since-1893
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« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2013, 11:59:20 PM »


And for DYS481 ?

My intent was to list those that matched off modal on the slowest mutating STRs where there was a different value for a marker in the Z142+ L594-, L562- group.  

I'm a novice but I assumed off modal matches on these slower markers would show a distant connection not shared by the others in the group.

Here are the STR mutation rates for every 1000 generations for the ones I listed above...source https://dl.dropbox.com/u/17907527/R1b-P312xL21_Haplotypes.zip

DYS425:  .180
DYS436:  .180
DYS490:  .190
DYS492:  .420
DYS392:  .520
DYS568:  .530
DYS438:  .550
DYS537:  .570
DYS565:  .870
DYS437:  .990
YCAII-2:  1.230

DYS481's rate is 5.440  There are over a dozen STRs with slower mutation rates in the 67 marker test that I didn't list (>1.230 < 5.440).


I'm here to learn.  If my approach above was flawed please let me know.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2013, 12:01:40 AM by Mitchell-since-1893 » Logged
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