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Author Topic: Perhaps Gioiello is right?  (Read 439 times)
Maliclavelli
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« on: April 01, 2013, 11:23:17 AM »

Within Europe, the three Italian population samples all have non-significant scores, but are found to be more ancestral to the other European populations.

(Detecting range expansions from genetic data, Benjamin M Peter, Montgomery Slatkin p.13)

I thank Dienekes for having posted this paper on his blog, even though it probably hasn't enjoyed him.
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Maliclavelli


YDNA: R-S12460


MtDNA: K1a1b1e

mcg11
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« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2013, 08:08:59 AM »

This is a very difficult but important paper.  Note that Maury Slatkin is the originator of the ASD method as applied to population genetics and is referred to by Goldstein and Stumpf in their review paper published in Science, 2001.

I find it interesting that it predicts a west to east expansion from Europe.  I have mentioned earlier that a Professor Rhys Williams (sp) wrote a paper/book which suggested a west to east expansion though a corridor formed between the alps and the Ice shelves which blanketed northern europe.  This was the path the game took at that time.

I believe the work is done with SNP's rather than STR's? 

I would like to see if we can infer any STR information from this work?  I have noticed in the Basque data developed by Robert L. Tarin that in R1B, 12 at 23 increases to 9% in older data sets.  It may be that 12 is ancestral for 393, but that the modal value is 13 due to the back migration from East to West c. 5 to 8K BC?
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Maliclavelli
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« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2013, 10:22:01 AM »

“I believe the work is done with SNP's rather than STR's? “

Of course, it seems to presuppose the HGDP.


“I would like to see if we can infer any STR information from this work?  I have noticed in the Basque data developed by Robert L. Tarin that in R1B, 12 at 23 increases to 9% in older data sets.  It may be that 12 is ancestral for 393, but that the modal value is 13 due to the back migration from East to West c. 5 to 8K BC?”

The paper says that French and French Basques are at the same level and less ancestral as to the 3 Italian people (Sardinians, Tuscans, North Italians), but of course one thing is the autosomal and another one is the Y. And of course there were migrations from and to Western Europe. What I have fought so far is the idea that everything came from East (Ex Oriente lux).
About the ancestral value of a marker I think that, just for my theories of the mutations around the modal, the convergence to the modal as time passes but also that sometime a mutation goes for the tangent, these hypotheses aren’t so much worth, because a clade may be originated at a random point of this pathway. Why R-L51 has modal DYS426=13, so rare? Because the mutation of L51 happened by chance in a rare R-L23 with DYS426=13 rather than in the huge majority with DYS426=12.



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Maliclavelli


YDNA: R-S12460


MtDNA: K1a1b1e

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