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Author Topic: Cruciani 2010 paper on R1b in Africa  (Read 6568 times)
danie53595
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« Reply #25 on: May 21, 2010, 01:27:00 AM »

Please, read carefully the paper of Cruciani. This is a mail I sent to a few friends and after to Vizachero on “Dienekes blog”. And note how Vizachero is changing his calculation of the TMRCA: “Dal giorno alla notte (From day to night)” we say in Italy.

“It is very important what you are saying. Then I send to you all a message of a few minutes ago for my few friends:

"Sam, this paper demonstrates that: only in Italy has been found 3 R1b1*, the ancestors of all ardms (your R1b1 will become either R1b1a* (V88) or R1b1a3* (V35) or R1b1a3a (V7)). It will be unlikly you'll be R1b1a2 (V8) or R1b1a4 (V69), found only among Africans, except you derive from some North African converted to Judaism. Italy has 1 R-V35 and 1 R-V7, then it has probably some R-V88. Italy has (in Corsica, who are Italians, and in Sardinia) R1b1a1 (M18). Italy has R-M73, even though they are more diffused in Asia, but they could be emigrated there from Europe with Tocharians. Italy has R/L23-, R/L23+/L150- (the only one in the world so far), R/L23+/L150+ (me, for instance) and all asvab, except the most recent ones, like R-153, R-M167, and a very few (one: Argiedude) R-L21. Do you need other proofs?".

I can add for you that, this said, probably these aicp and subclades found in Africa  have come from Italy, then from North via sea. If you watch carefully the Cruciani’s maps, there are two centers of diffusion: one from cahsee and one from North Cameroon where this people retired after Sahara dried. Then not an expansion from East, but from North, and North of the Libya there is Italy.


Thanks for the post



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Mark Jost
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« Reply #26 on: December 16, 2012, 06:44:04 PM »

Here is my TRMCA run for the Cruciani Study haplotypes.

Human Y chromosome haplogroup R-V88
Cruciani etal 2010
http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v18/n7/abs/ejhg2009231a.html

Using Cruciani's data set I have the following age info using my TMRCA MarkoH rates and 30 year generations with 11
markers that contain two sets of multi-copy STRs all used in the calculations. Sheet Mutation Rate sum for these 11

STRs: 0.02499


NA, Northern Africa; CA, Central Africa; EU, Europe; AS, Asia.

Intraclade

Clade  Count Var / Coalescence Gen Age (n-1) YBP
R1b1* all N=145   : 6.054 / 7,266.9
R1b1* all AS N=9  : 5.028 / 6,035.0
R1b1* all EU N=67 : 5.121 / 6,146.6
R1b1* all NA N=24 : 4.344 / 5,214.5
R1b1* all CA N=45 : 4.327 / 5,194.2

R1b1a* All EU N=4 : 5.417 / 6,501.8
R1b1a* All CA N=45: 4.327 / 5,194.2
R1b1a* All N=69   : 4.090 / 4,910.8
R1b1a* All NA N=20: 3.034 / 3,642.1

R1b1a4 All N=20   : 3.384 / 4,062.2
R1b1a4 All CA N=17: 3.404 / 4,086.4
R1b1a4 All NA N=3 : 2.667 / 3,200.9

R1b1b1 all AS N=3 : 0.667 /   800.2

R1b1b2 all N=69   : 3.836 / 4,604.9
R1b1b2 EU N=60    : 3.805 / 4,566.7
R1b1b2 NA N=4     : 3.750 / 4,501.3
R1b1b2 AS N=5     : 2.700 / 3,240.9



Clade Count  Var / Founders Modal Age YBP
R1b1* all N=145   : 8.841 / 10,612.6
R1b1* all AS N=9  : 5.778 /  6,935.3
R1b1* all EU N=67 : 5.731 /  6,879.5
R1b1* all NA N=24 : 4.833 /  5,801.6
R1b1* all CA N=45 : 4.489 /  5,388.2

R1b1a* All CA N=45: 4.489 /  5,388.2
R1b1a* All N=69   : 4.091 /  4,910.8
R1b1a* all NA N=20: 3.250 /  3,901.1
R1b1a* all EU N=4 :    NA /       NA

R1b1a4 all CA N=17: 3.941 /  4,730.7
R1b1a4 All N=20   : 3.800 /  4,561.3
R1b1a4 all NA N=3 : 2.667 /  3,200.9

R1b1b1 all AS N=3 : 0.667 /    800.2

R1b1b2 NA N=4     : 4.750 /  5,701.6
R1b1b2 all N=69   : 4.188 /  5,027.5
R1b1b2 EU N=60    : 4.133 /  4,961.4
R1b1b2 AS N=5     : 3.600 /  4,321.2


MJost
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148326
Pos: Z245 L459 L21 DF13**
Neg: DF23 L513 L96 L144 Z255 Z253 DF21 DF41 (Z254 P66 P314.2 M37 M222  L563 L526 L226 L195 L193 L192.1 L159.2 L130 DF63 DF5 DF49)
WTYNeg: L555 L371 (L9/L10 L370 L302/L319.1 L554 L564 L577 P69 L626 L627 L643 L679)
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