Geno 2.0 and R-L23 and R-L51

[Maliclavelli]

CTS1078 Z2103
PF7575 Z2104
CTS7340 Z2107
CTS1843 Z2109
CTS7822 Z2110
CTS5981 Z2115
CTS10379 Z2116
PF7589 Z2118
CTS7153 Z2119



Thanks to daver’s compendium, has anyone results about these SNPs?

[Maliclavelli]

Of course we are sure that Italy gets at least these ones:

PF7575 Z2104
PF7589 Z2118

[Maliclavelli]

It seems that Z2105 isn’t tested, but is tested Z2103 which seems so far on the same plane.
It seems that the Sardinian sample is positive for Z2104 but negative for Z2103 (and probably 2105). Then there is the possibility that the Sardinian sample is positive for R-L23 (perhaps also L150) and Z2104. If Z2104 was found in R-L51 (which hasn’t Z2103 and Z2105) we would have found the R-L23* that we are searching for. Even though Z2104 is a subclade of R-L23+/L150+, we would have anyway a subclade before R-Z2103/Z2105, then closer to R-L23*.

Anyway by watching to the SNPs present in the Sardinian sample it seems just that all the men of the world were born in Sardinia: there are all the most ancient SNPs of almost all the haplogroups.

[acekon]

Why is it taking so long for the Phoenicians to release all the results. What is going on? I thought there was going to be some changes in the tree?

[seferhabahir]

I think all the men of the ancient world just wanted to vacation in Sardinia and some of them didn't have enough money to purchase round-trip tickets.

[Maliclavelli]

I make you remember what I posted here a few weeks ago:

“On another thread (Variance of R1b-L23+ Calculated from Academic Studies) I wrote on May,15,2012:
’Of course for me the design is clear. From L150 we have with the SNPs Z2103-Z2105 the Tuscan NA20532 and the Chinese NA18645. Who is wondering of a Chinese close to a Tuscan, go and read my posting on Rootsweb before my banishment when I found a Hui close to me in the STRs and spoke about the paper on the Roman Army at Liqian (the survivors of the defeat at Carrhae who were deported at Merv and after fought against Chinese with the White Huns). Downstream of these we have HG01277 (CLM) and HG01515 (IBS Iberians) with the SNPs Z2108-Z2110.
Downstream L51 we have the Tuscan NA20785 with the SNPs Z2111-Z2119 and downstream we have the Tuscan NA20537 and HG01066 (PUR) with the SNP Z2120.
Then for me it is clear: from Tuscany to Iberia. From Iberia to the Isles and of course to South America.
The Chinese is an outlier, probably a descendant of some Etruscan who was in the Roman Army of Marcus Licinius Crassus’.

Now we may discuss about the origin of this Hui and of others and many could be the solutions, but I’d want to ask above all Richard Rocca this:
In a spreadsheet I printed of their work on 1KGP (I don’t know if it is always reachable now) I have this:

Added to spreadsheet 8/2/2011
Last updated 5/13/2012
NA18645 Y R1b1a2a1*: M207+ L23+ L49.1+ L150+ L51- U152- P297- L584- /CHB/ “appears to be L277+"

Apart P297- (to be clarified), what about L584-? If L277 is +, it would be the first case found where a Z2103/Z2105+ is L584- and L277+.

I make you note that another Hui gets my haplotype: 12,24,15,10,11-14,12,12,12,13,13 (my 12 is recent),29, but I am by 23andMe both L584- (I remember it was discovered when I invited my Iranian friend to send his data to Adriano Squecco) and L277-“.

(About Z2103/Z2105 and L150, L584, L277 etc., « on: September 02, 2012, 04:47:54 AM »)

[Maliclavelli]

I have just posted this on eng.molgen, but it is appropriate also here:

Richard Rocca wrote:
The branching off of Z2113 (formerly known as L51*) from L23 along with brother clade L11 probably occurred somewhere near the Alps as well.


This is a news. Where have you published these data? Anyway don't forget who said this many years ago and fought for this through banishments and the superior air of those who considered Italy and Italians pizza and mandolini.