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Author Topic: A possible R1b L2 Z49+ link with with French/Greek/Egyptian ancestry?  (Read 1468 times)
Curtis Pigman(Pigmon)
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« on: November 24, 2012, 07:33:30 PM »

The Y-DNA of Curtis Pigman was compared to a dataset of 2 populations in 1 journal using 6 Y-DNA STR markers. The closest matches in a set of 2 populations are listed in the table below:
Smyrna, Greece
RMI: 290.18
Phocaea, Greece
RMI: 209.82

Here is a link to a peer reviewed study:

The coming of the Greeks to Provence and Corsica: Y-chromosome models of archaic Greek colonization of the western Mediterranean

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3068964/?tool=pu...

The Aeolians (Greek: Αἰολεῖς) were one of the four major ancient Greek tribes comprising Ancient Greeks (along with the Achaeans, Dorians and Ionians). Their name derives from Aeolus, the mythical ancestor of the Aeolic branch and son of Hellen, the mythical patriarch of the Greek nation. The dialect of ancient Greek they spoke is referred to as Aeolic.  According to Herodotus the Aeolians were originally Pelasgians

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeolians

The Greek city states of Smyrna and Phocaea were for a time part of the kingdom of Pergamon and populated by the Aeolians who were descendants of the Pelasgians. The Greeks of Smyrna and Phocaea apparently were driven from Thessaly and founded the cities in Anatolia.

The name Pelasgians (Greek: Πελασγοί, Pelasgoí; singular: Πελασγός, Pelasgós) was used by some ancient Greek writers to refer to populations that either were the ancestors of the Greeks or preceded the Greeks in Greece, "a hold-all term for any ancient, primitive and presumably indigenous people in the Greek world".[1] In general, "Pelasgian" has come to mean more broadly all the indigenous inhabitants of the Aegean Sea region and their cultures before the advent of the Greek language

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelasgians

From Wikipedia: "The ancient Greek word for "sea", pelagos, comes from the same root, *plāk-, as the Doric word plagos, "side" (which is flat), appearing in *pelag-skoi. Ernest Klein therefore simply interprets the same reconstructed form as "the sea men", where the sea is the flat. In other words Sea People. It was believed by Homer that they had come from Egypt."

The Egyptian thing also caught my eye as I am a difference 8/18 from the available markers from King Tut.

Curtis Pigman(Pigmon)
« Last Edit: November 25, 2012, 03:37:35 PM by Curtis Pigman(Pigmon) » Logged

R1b1a2a1a1b3c3a L2+ Z49+ Z142+ Z150/Z12222+ (L20-,L196-,and L562-)
ysearch.org ID ZHHCY

Website:  curtisnsissy.tripod.com
Curtis Pigman(Pigmon)
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« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2012, 02:29:49 PM »

The R1b L2+Z49+ could have been introduced into Corsica and Marsailles this way:

From:  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3068964/?tool=pubmed

"The collapse of the Late Bronze Age societies of the Eastern Mediterranean (circa 1200 BCE) led to a cascade of initial demographic retrenchment then expansion, particularly among the Phoenicians of the coastal Levant and the Greeks of the Aegean Sea [1].

Both the Greeks and Phoenicians established a set of partitioned colonies along the coast of Mediterranean Europe and North Africa and engaged in extensive trade of a variety of goods including tin and other minerals, wine and olive oil [2].

The Greeks, at the beginning of the 1st millennium BCE founded cities along the Asia Minor (Anatolian) coast, divided into the Aeolian cities of northwest Anatolia, the Ionian cities of central western Anatolia and the Dorian cities of southwest Anatolia [1,3].

Although the Greek colonies of Magna Graecia of southern Italy and Sicily were established from a mixture of predominantly Dorian cities of the Aegean, the Peloponnesus and central Greece, the historical attestation of the Greek colonization of the western Mediterranean coastal regions of Provence, Spain and Corsica indicates a dominant influence from the Ionian city of Phokaia (AKA Focia, Phocaea) (Figure ​(Figure1)1) [4].

The Phokaian Greeks founded the city of Massealia circa 600 BCE at the location of the present city of Marseille and Alalie circa 560 BCE on the eastrn coast of Corsica [4].

Here the Phokaians encountered and interacted with the indigenous Celto-Ligurian populations, as evidenced by large caches of wine amphora, which the local tribes distributed along the Rhone River and the Mediterranean coast [5]."

Thus an entry into modern day France.
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R1b1a2a1a1b3c3a L2+ Z49+ Z142+ Z150/Z12222+ (L20-,L196-,and L562-)
ysearch.org ID ZHHCY

Website:  curtisnsissy.tripod.com
Curtis Pigman(Pigmon)
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« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2012, 05:29:48 PM »

Also interesting to note is a 21/67 match I have with Tomasso whose ancestor is from Vallerotonda (FR),  Italy just north of Naples.   The STR match is not great but he is L2+ Z49+ as well and there is an interesting possible connection with the Kingdom of Tamassos which is/was on Kition(Cyprus).

Could be a connection because Pygmalion(Pumayathon) King of Cyprus would have been written PGM in Greek-Phoenician letters.  Descendants who were not Kings could not have used the suffix "yathon" which means king.  The descendants could have been PGM with the vowels understood hence Pygmon.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2012, 05:41:20 PM by Curtis Pigman(Pigmon) » Logged

R1b1a2a1a1b3c3a L2+ Z49+ Z142+ Z150/Z12222+ (L20-,L196-,and L562-)
ysearch.org ID ZHHCY

Website:  curtisnsissy.tripod.com
A_Wode
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« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2012, 09:09:33 PM »



The data in that study, at least from a YDNA perspective defies everything that study is trying to prove with the correlation of E1b1b1 and being "Greek". Especially now that we know E1b1b1 was found at Neolithic Spanish sites. Now it's quite possible that a large segment of the Greek population arrived from Anatolia and the Levant (Minoans?) - probably with farming technologies. To me"Classical Greek" territory reeks of a Celtiberian and Italic mix, largely being R1b1b2 with perhaps even some I1. Interestingly, I can't place any other reason for I1's existance in Greek territory unless the immigrants came from a European territory in particular somewhere north-west of there. Consider also the heavy presence of R1b1b2, I2b1, and even I1 among the Albanians - again a seemingly north-western presence. Again, western origins are never even considered even when we know by written and archaeological account many invasions came from the west because so much focus is put on the orientals.


« Last Edit: November 29, 2012, 09:12:40 PM by A_Wode » Logged
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