Scots Modal SNP

[rms2]

I took a look at pending L1335 tests, at least in the R-L21 Plus Project. For continental testing we currently have two Germans, one Dane, and one Frenchman awaiting L1335 results.

From what I could see, none of them is in the Scots Cluster.

[ysearcher]

Yes, DYS 458=18 is modal for the Scots Modal, but variation from that is very common, especially 17 or 19.

[ysearcher]

Again, DYS 717 greater than or equal to 21 is another important one for Scots Modal.
 

Here's what I have for the Scots Modal:

1. 391 less than or equal to 10

2. 449 greater than or equal to 30

3. 441 greater than or equal to 11

4. 413a less than or equal to 22

5. 531 greater than or equal to 12

6. H4 = 12

7. YCAIIb = 24

That's the modal. Obviously there are variations.

I don't know what they have at 458, but apparently it's nothing out of the ordinary.

[ysearcher]

Was Templeton in batch 492? Just wondering if we can expect any more results this weekend.

As expected, Templeton, kit 63127, got an L1335+ result. He's a Scots Cluster guy. I will probably create an L1335+ category for the R-L21 Plus Project when I get back home this evening. I don't have time right now because it involves shuffling some things around.

I had a little time this morning, so I created the L1335+ category and put kit 63127 and all the other closely related Templetons in it.

[Mark Jost]

How many orders for L1335 do you see in batch 492?

I count 68 L1335 orders in Batch 492.
[/quote]

Steve, do you know how many outside the 1030-Sc's are being tested?

ymap:database shows L1335 results so far

ymap:database
count_derived: 3
count_tested: 13


MJost

[rms2]

Was Templeton in batch 492? Just wondering if we can expect any more results this weekend.

As expected, Templeton, kit 63127, got an L1335+ result. He's a Scots Cluster guy. I will probably create an L1335+ category for the R-L21 Plus Project when I get back home this evening. I don't have time right now because it involves shuffling some things around.

I had a little time this morning, so I created the L1335+ category and put kit 63127 and all the other closely related Templetons in it.

The batch number no longer appears for him, but his sample was batched on November 28th. Is that Batch 492?

[rms2]

Steve, do you know how many outside the 1030-Sc's are being tested?

ymap:database shows L1335 results so far

ymap:database
count_derived: 3
count_tested: 13


MJost

I don't know for all of them (and there are too many orders to go through), but the continentals I mentioned are not in the Scots Cluster.

I'm pretty sure some of the other orders are from outside it, as well.

[ysearcher]

Steve, do you know how many outside the 1030-Sc's are being tested?

ymap:database shows L1335 results so far

ymap:database
count_derived: 3
count_tested: 13


MJost

I don't know for all of them (and there are too many orders to go through), but the continentals I mentioned are not in the Scots Cluster.

I'm pretty sure some of the other orders are from outside it, as well.

So we know the three derived results, but have we accounted for all ten of the negative results?/ It looks like there isn't much chance of getting any more results until late tomorrow night at earliest. I think that I recall that FTDNA sometimes posts new results late Sunday night.

[MostDK]

When I get the result from batch 492, which was batched 28-11-2012, I expect to be DF13** (1511-A-T2*) as the day before.

But because it's old, I have to test ....

Kind regards,

Morten, f210257, ysearch MZTCZ

[rms2]

Steve, do you know how many outside the 1030-Sc's are being tested?

ymap:database shows L1335 results so far

ymap:database
count_derived: 3
count_tested: 13


MJost

I don't know for all of them (and there are too many orders to go through), but the continentals I mentioned are not in the Scots Cluster.

I'm pretty sure some of the other orders are from outside it, as well.

So we know the three derived results, but have we accounted for all ten of the negative results?/ It looks like there isn't much chance of getting any more results until late tomorrow night at earliest. I think that I recall that FTDNA sometimes posts new results late Sunday night.

I don't know who the negatives are.

I get the feeling that one night this week (I probably won't see them until the following morning) a crapload of L1335 results are going to magically appear.

That will be fun (but a lot of work, too).

[seferhabahir]

I don't know who the negatives are.

I get the feeling that one night this week (I probably won't see them until the following morning) a crapload of L1335 results are going to magically appear.

That will be fun (but a lot of work, too).

Two of the positive L1335 are in WTY (N44383 McMillan, and 48641 Tate) and Templeton is the third positive. Eight of the remaining negatives are from other WTY test kits listed on Finch. So there are two other negatives not accounted for  via WTY (at least not today on Finch).

[ysearcher]

It sure is going to be embarrassing if the results turn out a lot different than expected. At present there is a near consensus of opinion that the R-L21* Scots Modal (by whatever other name) will be near 100% positive for the new SNP. I hope that turns out to be the case, but you never know until the results are in. That's why so many of us are addicted to this stuff. "Life is like a box of chocolates, you never know..." - Forrest Gump.

Pat Tagert
R-DF13*(Scots Modal)-T2b19a*(mtDNA full sequence)

[Mikewww]

It sure is going to be embarrassing if the results turn out a lot different than expected. At present there is a near consensus of opinion that the R-L21* Scots Modal (by whatever other name) will be near 100% positive for the new SNP. I hope that turns out to be the case, but you never know until the results are in. That's why so many of us are addicted to this stuff. "Life is like a box of chocolates, you never know..." - Forrest Gump.

Absolutely. This is why we test -   to validate.... or to disprove.

I don't think it will be embarrassing either way though. We just have to do the best we can with what information we have. Either way L1335 is significant, even if it is only half or a fourth or a sixth of 1030-Sc (Scots) people. There are GDs at 67 between L1335+ people that are nearly as large as the largest GDs between the 1030-Sc modal and people on the fringe of the 1030-Sc modal but still have the STR off-modal signature.

[rms2]

A fair number of L1335+ results this morning . . . and some negatives.

That's about all I have time for right now. Looks like the Scots Cluster is L1335+, but I didn't have time to check all the positive haplotypes.

[seferhabahir]

A fair number of L1335+ results this morning . . . and some negatives.

That's about all I have time for right now. Looks like the Scots Cluster is L1335+, but I didn't have time to check all the positive haplotypes.

As of now on ymap, looks like ten L1335+ and counting...

count_derived:    10
count_tested:    29

[OConnor]

Any surname lists yet?


I put in for an L1335 test. I got very confused trying to pay for it through project general fund. There must be a simpler path.

[ysearcher]

Go to this page
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/R-L21/default.aspx?vgroup=R-L21&section=yresults
& scroll down to the L1335+ group. Note that Rich has included all of the Templetons that are related to the one Templeton who was tested. These are some of the first results to come back.

[rms2]

Go to this page
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/R-L21/default.aspx?vgroup=R-L21&section=yresults
& scroll down to the L1335+ group. Note that Rich has included all of the Templetons that are related to the one Templeton who was tested. These are some of the first results to come back.

That's right. The Templetons go in for y dna testing in a big way. Look at all of them as if they were one or maybe two entries.

[OConnor]

I ordered L1335. I suppose I will be in this Wednesday's Batch.

[rms2]

I ordered L1335. I suppose I will be in this Wednesday's Batch.

It should be. Wednesday is lab batch day.

[seferhabahir]

A fair number of L1335+ results this morning . . . and some negatives.

That's about all I have time for right now. Looks like the Scots Cluster is L1335+, but I didn't have time to check all the positive haplotypes.

As of now on ymap, looks like ten L1335+ and counting...

count_derived:    10
count_tested:    29

As of now...

count_derived:    17
count_tested:    51

Haven't checked who they are yet...

[Dubhthach]

As posted elsewhere it's now confirmed that DF41+ is L1335-, likewise there is at least one L1335+ who is DF41- confirming that the two snp's are parallel under DF13. Dave mentioned that Price in Wales-II cluster tested L1335+ this makes L1335 considerably broader/older. We are looking at another multi-signature SNP akin to the other members of the "Big Seven" (DF21, L513, DF49, Z253, Z255, DF41 and now L1335)

-Paul
(DF41+)

[Mike Forsyth]

A fair number of L1335+ results this morning . . . and some negatives.

That's about all I have time for right now. Looks like the Scots Cluster is L1335+, but I didn't have time to check all the positive haplotypes.

As of now on ymap, looks like ten L1335+ and counting...

count_derived:    10
count_tested:    29

As of now...

count_derived:    17
count_tested:    51

Haven't checked who they are yet...

Do we know if any "Scots model guys" who have tested L1335- "yet"?

[Albannach]

As posted elsewhere it's now confirmed that DF41+ is L1335-, likewise there is at least one L1335+ who is DF41- confirming that the two snp's are parallel under DF13. Dave mentioned that Price in Wales-II cluster tested L1335+ this makes L1335 considerably broader/older. We are looking at another multi-signature SNP akin to the other members of the "Big Seven" (DF21, L513, DF49, Z253, Z255, DF41 and now L1335)

-Paul
(DF41+)

So does this mean that the Scots modal probably represents a Strathclyde Briton origin rather than Pictish or Dalriadan?

[Dubhthach]

As posted elsewhere it's now confirmed that DF41+ is L1335-, likewise there is at least one L1335+ who is DF41- confirming that the two snp's are parallel under DF13. Dave mentioned that Price in Wales-II cluster tested L1335+ this makes L1335 considerably broader/older. We are looking at another multi-signature SNP akin to the other members of the "Big Seven" (DF21, L513, DF49, Z253, Z255, DF41 and now L1335)

-Paul
(DF41+)

So does this mean that the Scots modal probably represents a Strathclyde Briton origin rather than Pictish or Dalriadan?

Well that's the million euro/dollar question! There's a number of scenarios, if for example it was to represent a "Pictish lineage" as many often claim well this could point to the picts been more tied in with wider Brythonic population. It's often claimed by some that the picts are "pre-celtic" I don't buy this myself based on names of both people and places. What they might represent though is an early branch from the rest of what became Brythonic speakers.

Of course we should realise that 2,000-2,500 years ago that the differences between insular Celtic languages were on order of say the difference between modern Dutch and German. eg. seperate development for a period along with a number of innovative sound changes present in one but not in the other. In this case though it would be "Proto-Goidelic" vs. "Proto-Brythonic" -- (Dutch doesn't take part in High German sound shift apart from the shift of ð/th -> d, and thus could be said to maintain more of the proto-West Germanic sounds)

-Paul
(DF41+)