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rms2
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« Reply #25 on: November 25, 2012, 02:27:01 PM »


This is great news,  us Scots can finally be something more specific than plain old L21!

Have any Scots came back L1334- L1335- so far? and does anyone have any idea how old L1335 and L1334 are yet?.

I'm 19-24 so I'm assuming I'm L1335+ L1334- though I do plan to test eventually.

I haven't heard of any Scots Cluster guys who have tested negative for both. It looks like L1334 is downstream of L1335 and could be private. L1335 is the one that is apparently public and probably common to the whole Scots Cluster.

I'll be glad when FTDNA starts offering it. It should be interesting to see the results start rolling in.
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rms2
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« Reply #26 on: November 25, 2012, 02:29:38 PM »

What about DF21?  Is it known to be negative for this or can this be surmised?

I don't know how many of the DF13+ SNPs they have eliminated yet. I read that Z253 and M222 have been eliminated for L1335, but I'm not sure about the rest.

I agree with your previous post about the possibility of L1335 being older than the Scots Cluster. That's why I told Mike Forsyth (above) that we don't know its limits yet. It could cast a wider net than merely the Scots Cluster, which would no doubt be a good thing for some of our current DF13* guys.

Certainy last I head P314 was far older than the cluster with a few people being discovered who had only one or two STRs in common with the cluster being discovered to be P314.  Interestingly too they had a completely different distribution from the cluster and from memory they were north European continental in total contrast to the cluster who were all isles people (almost all down the Atlantic coasts of Ireland and Scotland).  So, the cluster is useful for the historic period while the SNP had an even wider use and hinted at far older continental roots.  

It will be interesting to see if anything similar happens with L1335.

It's exciting stuff (even though I am not in the Scots Cluster myself).

Maybe they can dig up some ancient Picts and test them for L1335?
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Jdean
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« Reply #27 on: November 25, 2012, 02:50:10 PM »

What about DF21?  Is it known to be negative for this or can this be surmised?

I don't know how many of the DF13+ SNPs they have eliminated yet. I read that Z253 and M222 have been eliminated for L1335, but I'm not sure about the rest.

I agree with your previous post about the possibility of L1335 being older than the Scots Cluster. That's why I told Mike Forsyth (above) that we don't know its limits yet. It could cast a wider net than merely the Scots Cluster, which would no doubt be a good thing for some of our current DF13* guys.

I was a tad hasty with my previous post, I suppose what I should of said was wait and see if it covers all the Scots Modal before ordering it if you aren't part of the cluster. I don't think that will take long though, I'm guessing FTDNA will be deluged with orders once they make L1335 available to Joe Public :)

I think David Reynolds posted that a WTY L513 person was also negative for L1335 but I don't know which kit (edit kit no. 117944).

The only kit in the 1000 Genome project that was found to be positive for L1335 is HG00096 who's DF13* so I think it's fair bet it won't be upstream of any of the Big 6, however one test from each of these will probably be necessary to get it into ISOGG.

https://www.box.com/s/3bb2667e7a3995ba6853
« Last Edit: November 25, 2012, 02:56:29 PM by Jdean » Logged

Y-DNA R-DF49*
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Kit No. 117897
Ysearch 3BMC9

Jdean
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« Reply #28 on: November 26, 2012, 11:20:34 AM »

That was quick, L1334 & L1335 are now available !!!
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Y-DNA R-DF49*
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Kit No. 117897
Ysearch 3BMC9

Mike Forsythe
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« Reply #29 on: November 26, 2012, 12:05:07 PM »

I am trying to decide what one to order...
L1334 is downstream from L1335 correct??
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Mike Forsythe
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« Reply #30 on: November 26, 2012, 12:21:28 PM »

It is a little frustrating because I basically have very few matches...

Outside of my surname, I have  ten 12/12 matches, and two 22/25, and two 33/37, and one 62/67 match. None of these 25, 37, or the one 67 matches resemble these SNPs. I am not even sure they are L21, as they have not been tested..
« Last Edit: November 26, 2012, 12:22:53 PM by Mike Forsyth » Logged
Mark Jost
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« Reply #31 on: November 26, 2012, 12:36:12 PM »

I am trying to decide what one to order...
L1334 is downstream from L1335 correct??
Yes. L1334 is downstream from L1335 according to the ThomasK's Draft tree.
http://ytree.ftdna.com/index.php?name=Draft&parent=99813469

MJost
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148326
Pos: Z245 L459 L21 DF13**
Neg: DF23 L513 L96 L144 Z255 Z253 DF21 DF41 (Z254 P66 P314.2 M37 M222  L563 L526 L226 L195 L193 L192.1 L159.2 L130 DF63 DF5 DF49)
WTYNeg: L555 L371 (L9/L10 L370 L302/L319.1 L554 L564 L577 P69 L626 L627 L643 L679)
Mike Forsythe
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« Reply #32 on: November 26, 2012, 01:00:19 PM »

Thanks Mark,
I ordered L1335..see what happens!!!
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Mark Jost
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« Reply #33 on: November 26, 2012, 01:00:19 PM »

I am trying to decide what one to order...
L1334 is downstream from L1335 correct??

Mike,
I dont believe ordering these snps would be wise right now. Has anyone suggested going up to 111 markers yet?

MJost
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148326
Pos: Z245 L459 L21 DF13**
Neg: DF23 L513 L96 L144 Z255 Z253 DF21 DF41 (Z254 P66 P314.2 M37 M222  L563 L526 L226 L195 L193 L192.1 L159.2 L130 DF63 DF5 DF49)
WTYNeg: L555 L371 (L9/L10 L370 L302/L319.1 L554 L564 L577 P69 L626 L627 L643 L679)
Mike Forsythe
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« Reply #34 on: November 26, 2012, 01:14:48 PM »

Given I have only one match at 67 markers with a GD of 5, I was thinking I would wait for matches to show up with a higher level, then upgrade to 111 markers..
I recently have asked FTDNA if they would extend my matches to a GD of 8 which may help. If I had some 59/67 or 60/67 matches I would then upgrade to 111 markers..

I am not sure if this is the right approach, however I seem very limited
« Last Edit: November 26, 2012, 01:26:53 PM by Mike Forsyth » Logged
Mike Forsythe
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« Reply #35 on: November 26, 2012, 01:53:45 PM »

Mark, as you can see I have been thoroughly tested..I'm not sure how upgrading to 111 markers will help,as I have ran out of SNPs..

Ysearch beq4c
Kit 208852
    L21+ DF13+ Z255- Z253- P66- P314.2- M37- M222- L96- L513- L371- L226- L193- L159.2- L144- DF49- DF41- DF21-
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Mark Jost
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« Reply #36 on: November 26, 2012, 02:44:36 PM »

Mark, as you can see I have been thoroughly tested..I'm not sure how upgrading to 111 markers will help,as I have ran out of SNPs..

Ysearch beq4c
Kit 208852
    L21+ DF13+ Z255- Z253- P66- P314.2- M37- M222- L96- L513- L371- L226- L193- L159.2- L144- DF49- DF41- DF21-
On your YDNA match page, change to 67 marker and change the distance to 10
instead of all and see what shows up.

http://www.familytreedna.com/faq/answers.aspx?id=48#1990

Also Y-DNA - Matches by Project 

MJost
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148326
Pos: Z245 L459 L21 DF13**
Neg: DF23 L513 L96 L144 Z255 Z253 DF21 DF41 (Z254 P66 P314.2 M37 M222  L563 L526 L226 L195 L193 L192.1 L159.2 L130 DF63 DF5 DF49)
WTYNeg: L555 L371 (L9/L10 L370 L302/L319.1 L554 L564 L577 P69 L626 L627 L643 L679)
Jdean
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« Reply #37 on: November 26, 2012, 03:17:55 PM »

Mark, as you can see I have been thoroughly tested..I'm not sure how upgrading to 111 markers will help,as I have ran out of SNPs..

Ysearch beq4c
Kit 208852
    L21+ DF13+ Z255- Z253- P66- P314.2- M37- M222- L96- L513- L371- L226- L193- L159.2- L144- DF49- DF41- DF21-
On your YDNA match page, change to 67 marker and change the distance to 10
instead of all and see what shows up.

http://www.familytreedna.com/faq/answers.aspx?id=48#1990

Also Y-DNA - Matches by Project 

MJost

Neat trick, thanks for that.

Unfortunately you can only get up to a GD of ten if you've tested 111 loci but you can still do 7 @ 37 loci (or 25 even) though probably not as useful.

BTW searching a GD of 10 @ 67 loci only added one person to my matches :)
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Mike Forsythe
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« Reply #38 on: November 26, 2012, 03:37:37 PM »

At 67 markers I can only get to a GD of 7, which doesn't change anything..

In a PM  some time ago, you searched  the L21 spreadsheet  and said I was closest to L555 and DF21 GD wise at 12 or more but not quite.
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Mark Jost
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« Reply #39 on: November 26, 2012, 03:43:24 PM »

At 67 markers I can only get to a GD of 7, which doesn't change anything..

In a PM  some time ago, you searched  the L21 spreadsheet  and said I was closest to L555 and DF21 GD wise at 12 or more but not quite.

Yes I still feel you might be a Pre-L555 but its a shot in the dark to test for it.  You know that DF21 is out. If the Scots SNP proves to be older than the 1030-Sc's then go for it.

MJost
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148326
Pos: Z245 L459 L21 DF13**
Neg: DF23 L513 L96 L144 Z255 Z253 DF21 DF41 (Z254 P66 P314.2 M37 M222  L563 L526 L226 L195 L193 L192.1 L159.2 L130 DF63 DF5 DF49)
WTYNeg: L555 L371 (L9/L10 L370 L302/L319.1 L554 L564 L577 P69 L626 L627 L643 L679)
Mark Jost
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« Reply #40 on: November 26, 2012, 04:38:33 PM »


Neat trick, thanks for that.

Unfortunately you can only get up to a GD of ten if you've tested 111 loci but you can still do 7 @ 37 loci (or 25 even) though probably not as useful.

BTW searching a GD of 10 @ 67 loci only added one person to my matches :)

New info to follow up on!

MJost
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148326
Pos: Z245 L459 L21 DF13**
Neg: DF23 L513 L96 L144 Z255 Z253 DF21 DF41 (Z254 P66 P314.2 M37 M222  L563 L526 L226 L195 L193 L192.1 L159.2 L130 DF63 DF5 DF49)
WTYNeg: L555 L371 (L9/L10 L370 L302/L319.1 L554 L564 L577 P69 L626 L627 L643 L679)
Jdean
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« Reply #41 on: November 26, 2012, 05:03:27 PM »


Neat trick, thanks for that.

Unfortunately you can only get up to a GD of ten if you've tested 111 loci but you can still do 7 @ 37 loci (or 25 even) though probably not as useful.

BTW searching a GD of 10 @ 67 loci only added one person to my matches :)

New info to follow up on!

MJost

No I've been in contact with him for years now, in fact he was the first person I emailed suggesting to test for DF49 when my result came through. Unfortunately he's gone uncharacteristic silent, mind you that was the holiday season so I should probably drop him another line.

The next person I contacted has a GD of 16 from me at 67 loci (if you ignore the multi-copy markers, which you have to with him since there was a palindromic mutation in his line), he turned out DF49* as predicted :)

I'm not getting much luck with recruiting people at the moment unfortunately. I've just sent an email to one fellow after waiting patiently for his admin to reply, thankfully FTDNA are very helpful but I could have got the email with your nifty trick :)
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Mike Forsythe
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« Reply #42 on: November 26, 2012, 06:03:08 PM »

Yes I still feel you might be a Pre-L555 but its a shot in the dark to test for it.  You know that DF21 is out. If the Scots SNP proves to be older than the 1030-Sc's then go for it.

I thought I might just as well order L555...I'll see what happens!!
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rms2
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« Reply #43 on: November 26, 2012, 08:13:57 PM »

I always get the news late because I leave for work at about 0400 and don't get much if any time to check dna news while I am at work. Then I don't get home until about 1800. I usually fall asleep on the train  . . . both ways. :-)

Anyway, I created a bulk email to be sent out to the members of the R-L21 Plus Project about L1335. I advised those who are DF49+, L513+, and Z253+ NOT to order it, because representatives of the clades characterized by those SNPs have already tested L1335-.

The bulk email will go out as soon as FTDNA has approved it.

For anyone wondering how to order L1335, follow these instructions:

1. Go to your myFTDNA pages.

2. Click on "Order An Upgrade" in the upper right.

3. Click on "Order an Advanced Test" under the heading "Advanced Tests".

4. Find the "Test Type" box and choose "SNP" from the drop-down menu.

5. Type L1335 in the box on the right and click the orange "Find" button.

6. L1335 will come up at the bottom of the screen for $29. Click "Add".

7. Click "Next" and complete the fields to order the test.
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OConnor
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« Reply #44 on: November 26, 2012, 11:02:33 PM »

do you think I should order L1335 ??
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R-DF13**(L21>DF13)
M42+, M45+, M526+, M74+, M89+, M9+, M94+, P108+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, P311+, P312+, P316+, M173+, M269+, M343+, P312+, L21+, DF13+, M207+, P25+, L11+, L138+, L141+, L15+, L150+, L16+, L23+, L51+, L52+, M168+, M173+, M207+, M213+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M343+, P69+, P9.1+, P97+, PK1+, SRY10831.1+, L21+, L226-, M37-, M222-, L96-, L193-, L144-, P66-, SRY2627-, M222-, DF49-, L371-, DF41-, L513-, L555-, L1335-, L1406-, Z251-, L526-, L130-, L144-, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195-, L96-, DF21-, Z255-, DF23-, DF1-, Z253-, M37-, M65-, M73-, M18-, M126-, M153-, M160-, P66-

12 24 14 10 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29 18


rms2
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« Reply #45 on: November 27, 2012, 04:58:44 AM »

do you think I should order L1335 ??

It couldn't hurt. We don't know the limits of it yet. If it's old, it could include people outside the Scots Cluster.
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rms2
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« Reply #46 on: November 27, 2012, 08:13:32 PM »

I see no sign that FTDNA has approved my bulk email and sent it out.

That's unusual. It usually doesn't take this long.
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rms2
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« Reply #47 on: November 27, 2012, 08:55:22 PM »

I see no sign that FTDNA has approved my bulk email and sent it out.

That's unusual. It usually doesn't take this long.

Okay. My bulk email about L1335 was just approved by FTDNA.

Quote
Your bulk email request has been reviewed and the bulk email will be sent within one business day.

All group administrators of this project will receive a copy of the sent message.

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rms2
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« Reply #48 on: November 28, 2012, 12:25:43 PM »

Fifty three orders for L1335 so far.

We are also on our way to getting the testing straight so that L1335 can make it onto the ISOGG tree post-haste.

All we need is a test for it from our L96+ guy and one of our L371+ guys, and we're good (I think).

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Mark Jost
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« Reply #49 on: November 28, 2012, 12:55:23 PM »

I placed an ordered to keep my DF13** status and now my HaploTree page now shows:

"Your Test Is In Progress...
The following tests are in progress: L1334, L1335."

A fast turn around anticipated.

MJost

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148326
Pos: Z245 L459 L21 DF13**
Neg: DF23 L513 L96 L144 Z255 Z253 DF21 DF41 (Z254 P66 P314.2 M37 M222  L563 L526 L226 L195 L193 L192.1 L159.2 L130 DF63 DF5 DF49)
WTYNeg: L555 L371 (L9/L10 L370 L302/L319.1 L554 L564 L577 P69 L626 L627 L643 L679)
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