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Author Topic: Interesting structure of Haplogroup P  (Read 978 times)
wing_genealogist
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« on: November 13, 2012, 07:57:05 AM »

Thomas Krahn reported (at the FTDNA conference this past weekend) where FTDNA does not have ANY haplogroup S individuals.  This got me thinking about the possibility of getting rid of the haplogroup (and assigning its SNPs to S's parent haplogroup).

Looking at Thomas' Draft Y Tree, I have seen where Haplo S is the child of Haplo P.   Going back to Haplo P, I tried to look for its subclades, but discovered the ONLY sublades of P are Haplo Q, Haplo R & Haplo S!!

This was absolutely stunning relational to me. Why do we continue to have these anachronistic clades, when other clades, such as R are in desperate need of being further divided into further clades (rather than simply subclades).

Why can't Haplos Q & S be rolled back under Haplo P, and thus leaving these letters available for re-use! Given the recognized "explosion" of the clades below R-M269 , it certain deserves more than simply a twig of a subclade below R.
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Y-DNA - R1b M157.2 (a private/family subclade of Z6/Z352) 111 markers tested

mt-DNA - J1c2g with the following private mutations: 315.1C 522.1A 522.2C C9974T C16256T (FMS tested and submitted to GenBank)

Autosomal - shows as a typical English ancestry. Tested with 23andMe, FTDNA
palamede
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« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2012, 01:16:03 PM »

Thomas Krahn reported (at the FTDNA conference this past weekend) where FTDNA does not have ANY haplogroup S individuals.  This got me thinking about the possibility of getting rid of the haplogroup (and assigning its SNPs to S's parent haplogroup).

Looking at Thomas' Draft Y Tree, I have seen where Haplo S is the child of Haplo P.   Going back to Haplo P, I tried to look for its subclades, but discovered the ONLY sublades of P are Haplo Q, Haplo R & Haplo S!!

This was absolutely stunning relational to me. Why do we continue to have these anachronistic clades, when other clades, such as R are in desperate need of being further divided into further clades (rather than simply subclades).

Why can't Haplos Q & S be rolled back under Haplo P, and thus leaving these letters available for re-use! Given the recognized "explosion" of the clades below R-M269 , it certain deserves more than simply a twig of a subclade below R.

Haplo S is not the child of haplo P, but child of haplo K. S is mostly present in New Guinéa/Papuasia and neighbouring Oceania Islands..

They are not anachronistic clades, but New Guinea inhabitants are very poor and cannot buy the FTDNA tests.

About Q, you are not serious. It is the haplogroup of Amerindians.
But it is true to steal Amerindians from their wealth and treasures is an old tradition in US.  

« Last Edit: November 14, 2012, 10:38:26 PM by Terry Barton » Logged

Y=G2a3b1a2-L497 Wallony-Charleroi; Mt=H2a2a1 Normandy-Bray
Dodecad-DiY: E Eur 9,25% W Eur 48,48% Med 28,46% W Asia 11,70%
World9: Atl-Balt 67,61% Southern 13,23% Cauc-Gedr 12,73%
K12a: North-E 39,71% Med 37,9% Cauc 12,55% Gedr 5,78% SW Asia 2,13%
wing_genealogist
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« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2012, 03:30:20 PM »

I profess my ignorance at the structure of these haplogroups (which I made perfectly obvious by my post anyways).

At the risk of further embarrassing myself, the point I was trying to raise is the major haplogroup of Western Europe, and at least a significant haplogroup for all of Europe (if not the largest) is L11 (et al) which unites U106 & P312. This haplogroup is not assigned a letter, but is quite far down the R haplo tree. Not only is Haplogroup R's origin in another continent (Asia), but (adding insult to injury), there is currently no known R* folks alive today.

Given the gradual elimination of the long-hand haplogroup names, and its replacement with the terminal SNP name (along with ONLY the initial Haplogroup) I am merely wishing that L11 be granted its own clade name.
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Y-DNA - R1b M157.2 (a private/family subclade of Z6/Z352) 111 markers tested

mt-DNA - J1c2g with the following private mutations: 315.1C 522.1A 522.2C C9974T C16256T (FMS tested and submitted to GenBank)

Autosomal - shows as a typical English ancestry. Tested with 23andMe, FTDNA
gtc
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« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2012, 10:09:38 AM »

Thomas Krahn reported (at the FTDNA conference this past weekend) where FTDNA does not have ANY haplogroup S individuals.  This got me thinking about the possibility of getting rid of the haplogroup (and assigning its SNPs to S's parent haplogroup).

Looking at Thomas' Draft Y Tree, I have seen where Haplo S is the child of Haplo P.   Going back to Haplo P, I tried to look for its subclades, but discovered the ONLY sublades of P are Haplo Q, Haplo R & Haplo S!!

This was absolutely stunning relational to me. Why do we continue to have these anachronistic clades, when other clades, such as R are in desperate need of being further divided into further clades (rather than simply subclades).

Why can't Haplos Q & S be rolled back under Haplo P, and thus leaving these letters available for re-use! Given the recognized "explosion" of the clades below R-M269 , it certain deserves more than simply a twig of a subclade below R.

Haplo S is not the child of haplo P, but child of haplo K. S is mostly present in New Guinéa/Papuasia and neighbouring Oceania Islands..

They are not anachronistic clades, but New Guinea inhabitants are very poor and cannot buy the FTDNA tests.


About Q, you are not serious. It is the haplogroup of Amerindians.
But it is true to steal Amerindians from their wealth and treasures is an old tradition in US.  

It's true that these folk cannot afford testing, but Spencer Wells has been taking samples from numerous native populations in far away places for many years. So, where is his data?
« Last Edit: November 20, 2012, 10:10:04 AM by gtc » Logged

Y-DNA: R1b-Z12* (R1b1a2a1a1a3b2b1a1a1) GGG-GF Ireland (roots reportedly Anglo-Norman)
mtDNA: I3b (FMS) Maternal lines Irish
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