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Author Topic: U152 and the Ancient Ligures or Ligurians  (Read 10023 times)
Richard Rocca
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« Reply #75 on: October 06, 2012, 02:19:53 PM »


Ridiculous that information regarding this theory be wiped out!  Like he said, nothing was revealed which wasn't already published.

  I can't believe the censorship here.

 
Posting deleted


As Marco said, he said a little more than what was public and he apologized to the appropriate person for it. Let's not forget that no matter how passionate we are about genetics, for all of us here this is nothing more than a hobby. For academics, it is more than that, it is how they make their living. They are judged by the quality of the studies they put out. If someone beats them to the punch, then their accomplishments are diminished.
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Paternal: R1b-U152+L2*
Maternal: H
Diana
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« Reply #76 on: October 06, 2012, 04:41:00 PM »


  I totally get that Richard and I accept the hard work of others.

  The public part of it should at the very least be up for discussion.
  I posted it on the group on FB so Marco would know that it was here but have since deleted it as not to offend anyone.

  I don't know what part was public and what part was private...

 

Ridiculous that information regarding this theory be wiped out!  Like he said, nothing was revealed which wasn't already published.

  I can't believe the censorship here.

 
Posting deleted


As Marco said, he said a little more than what was public and he apologized to the appropriate person for it. Let's not forget that no matter how passionate we are about genetics, for all of us here this is nothing more than a hobby. For academics, it is more than that, it is how they make their living. They are judged by the quality of the studies they put out. If someone beats them to the punch, then their accomplishments are diminished.
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R1b1a2a1a1b3 U152+ Z56+ Z144/Z145/Z146+ P312+ U106- M228.2- M160- M126- L4- L21- L2- L196- L176.2- DYS492=14 Roma, Italia.
Gens Galeria
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« Reply #77 on: October 08, 2012, 12:27:11 AM »

I think that Gioiello's banishment is excessive and unfair! I hope everything will come back as before! In Italy we say : mettiamoci una pietra sopra, I hope that the translation is correct:  Let's put a stone on top!
Best regards to all.
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Jean M
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« Reply #78 on: October 08, 2012, 05:04:48 AM »

I think that Gioiello's banishment is excessive and unfair!

A 14 day ban is excessive? You think it should have been five minutes, perhaps?
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Gens Galeria
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« Reply #79 on: October 08, 2012, 05:30:37 AM »

Your irony is too!
However, I did not know  a 14-day ban.
But  let's talk about genetic only! We must put an end to the controversy!
My best regards!
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Jean M
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« Reply #80 on: October 08, 2012, 05:51:14 AM »

However, I did not know  a 14-day ban.

See #67 above. Terry Barton, the owner of the forum, removed a post and imposed a 14 day ban.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2012, 05:51:51 AM by Jean M » Logged
Diana
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« Reply #81 on: October 08, 2012, 02:46:38 PM »

Jean, I have a great respect for your work. You have an obvious distain for Gio.
 Stop adding insult to injury! I respect Gio's opinions although I do not always agree with his low blows towards my fellow project leaders. I think his messages are sometimes lost in translation. The way they communicate in Italy is always filled with much more emotion.

Coming here to point that out to him with your initial post about insults was rather unnecessary.

I Look forward to his return!!

  Happy thanksgiving to all my fellow Canadians!
« Last Edit: October 08, 2012, 02:58:13 PM by Diana » Logged

R1b1a2a1a1b3 U152+ Z56+ Z144/Z145/Z146+ P312+ U106- M228.2- M160- M126- L4- L21- L2- L196- L176.2- DYS492=14 Roma, Italia.
Diana
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« Reply #82 on: October 08, 2012, 03:08:30 PM »



  Yes Marco,

  That's correct, let's talk about genetics and the origins of what this thread is entitled.

  All my best!


Your irony is too!
However, I did not know  a 14-day ban.
But  let's talk about genetic only! We must put an end to the controversy!
My best regards!

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R1b1a2a1a1b3 U152+ Z56+ Z144/Z145/Z146+ P312+ U106- M228.2- M160- M126- L4- L21- L2- L196- L176.2- DYS492=14 Roma, Italia.
Diana
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« Reply #83 on: October 13, 2012, 04:36:53 PM »

To get this thread back on topic I am adding a post from Richard from a thread he started about U152 age estimates.  Anyone interested can follow up on that thread if they like..

  "I've run the age estimates for U152's three main sub-clades (L2, Z36 and Z56) using Kenneth Nordtvedt's Generations 7 method.

L2 Clade MRCA Age   4.1 ybp (4.4-3.8)  N=224
L2 Clade Coalescence Age   3.6 ybp (4.0-3.3)  N=224
Z36 Clade MRCA Age   3.6 ybp (3.9-3.3)  N=29
Z36 Clade Coalescence Age   3.2 ybp (3.5-2.9)  N=29
Z56 Clade MRCA Age   6.3 ybp (6.7-5.9)  N=26
Z56 Clade Coalescence Age   5.6 ybp (6.0-5.2)  N=26
Z56 Clade MRCA Age (incl. DYS492=14)   5.1 ybp (5.4-4.8)  N=43
Z56 Clade Coalescence Age (incl. DYS492=14)   4.7 ybp (5.0-4.4)  N=43
L2 and Z36 Interclade MRCA Age   4.0 ybp (4.2-3.8)  N=253
L2 and Z56 Interclade MRCA Age   9.2 ybp (9.7-8.6)  N=250
L2 and Z56 Interclade MRCA Age (incl. DYS492=14)   7.8 ybp (8.3-7.2)  N=267
Z36 and Z56 Interclade MRCA Age   9.1 ybp (9.7-8.5)  N=55
Z36 and Z56 Interclade MRCA Age (incl. DYS492=14)   7.7 ybp (8.3-7.1)  N=72

Based on these estimates, the MRCA for all three sub-clades would date to the Copper Age, with major expansions during the Early-Middle Bronze Ages.

Z56 seems to be a good deal older than either L2 or Z36. L2 and Z36 look to be about the same age, seem to have expanded at about the same time, and their MRCA ages with Z56 are almost identical."
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R1b1a2a1a1b3 U152+ Z56+ Z144/Z145/Z146+ P312+ U106- M228.2- M160- M126- L4- L21- L2- L196- L176.2- DYS492=14 Roma, Italia.
Solothurn
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« Reply #84 on: November 11, 2012, 12:19:16 PM »

I am not sure who quoted this so please forgive me if I have misquoted

I thought this may interest some on here,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viroconium_Cornoviorum

[/quote]

I believe L2 is common in Italy, so I guess it could have gotten to Wales with the Romans.
[/quote]
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U152*
H1c3b
ysearch JSN4E
Curtis Pigman(Pigmon)
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« Reply #85 on: November 11, 2012, 12:50:18 PM »

To get this thread back on topic I am adding a post from Richard from a thread he started about U152 age estimates.  Anyone interested can follow up on that thread if they like..

  "I've run the age estimates for U152's three main sub-clades (L2, Z36 and Z56) using Kenneth Nordtvedt's Generations 7 method.

L2 Clade MRCA Age   4.1 ybp (4.4-3.8)  N=224
L2 Clade Coalescence Age   3.6 ybp (4.0-3.3)  N=224
Z36 Clade MRCA Age   3.6 ybp (3.9-3.3)  N=29
Z36 Clade Coalescence Age   3.2 ybp (3.5-2.9)  N=29
Z56 Clade MRCA Age   6.3 ybp (6.7-5.9)  N=26
Z56 Clade Coalescence Age   5.6 ybp (6.0-5.2)  N=26
Z56 Clade MRCA Age (incl. DYS492=14)   5.1 ybp (5.4-4.8)  N=43
Z56 Clade Coalescence Age (incl. DYS492=14)   4.7 ybp (5.0-4.4)  N=43
L2 and Z36 Interclade MRCA Age   4.0 ybp (4.2-3.8)  N=253
L2 and Z56 Interclade MRCA Age   9.2 ybp (9.7-8.6)  N=250
L2 and Z56 Interclade MRCA Age (incl. DYS492=14)   7.8 ybp (8.3-7.2)  N=267
Z36 and Z56 Interclade MRCA Age   9.1 ybp (9.7-8.5)  N=55
Z36 and Z56 Interclade MRCA Age (incl. DYS492=14)   7.7 ybp (8.3-7.1)  N=72

Based on these estimates, the MRCA for all three sub-clades would date to the Copper Age, with major expansions during the Early-Middle Bronze Ages.

Z56 seems to be a good deal older than either L2 or Z36. L2 and Z36 look to be about the same age, seem to have expanded at about the same time, and their MRCA ages with Z56 are almost identical."

Does anyone know the age of L2+ Z49?  I finally ordered it.
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R1b1a2a1a1b3c3a L2+ Z49+ Z142+ Z150/Z12222+ (L20-,L196-,and L562-)
ysearch.org ID ZHHCY

Website:  curtisnsissy.tripod.com
Solothurn
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« Reply #86 on: November 11, 2012, 01:35:17 PM »

 It maybe on here

Fluxus Phylogenetic Networks and TMRCA Estimates (by Tibor Fehér)

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/R1b-U152/default.aspx?section=results

[/quote]
Does anyone know the age of L2+ Z49?  I finally ordered it.
[/quote]
« Last Edit: November 11, 2012, 01:41:17 PM by briancowings » Logged

U152*
H1c3b
ysearch JSN4E
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