R1b-L389 - an early branch - is it firm where it fits?

[Mikewww]

Vineviz has described L389 as an option for testing in the R1b asterisk project.
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/r1b1asterisk/default.aspx?section=news

I've also seen a diagram where L389 is inserted right above P297 and M335. In other words, P297 (where M269) fits and M335 are brothers while V88 is a bit of a cousin.

The ISOGG Y DNA treee does not reflect this.

Is it firmly known where L389 fits? I've tried to depict what I think here, but I'm just looking at other peoples' notes.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/17907527/R1b_Descendancy_Tree.jpg

Vineviz's diagram also did not include P25 so an additional question is does L389 fit above or below P25?  It appears that since V88 falls under P25, I think, that P25 is immediately above L389.  Perhaps P25 will be removed from the tree anyway.  I don't know.

[gtc]

Vineviz's diagram also did not include P25 so an additional question is does L389 fit above or below P25?  It appears that since V88 falls under P25, I think, that P25 is immediately above L389.  Perhaps P25 will be removed from the tree anyway.  I don't know.

Good questions. Vineviz's project shows about 30 men tested positive for L389 so I think it deserves a spot on the ISOGG tree.

Thomas Krahn has it as "Approx. hg: R-P25*" :

http://ymap.ftdna.com/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse_details/hs_chrY?name=L389

[A_Wode]

Vineviz's diagram also did not include P25 so an additional question is does L389 fit above or below P25?  It appears that since V88 falls under P25, I think, that P25 is immediately above L389.  Perhaps P25 will be removed from the tree anyway.  I don't know.

Good questions. Vineviz's project shows about 30 men tested positive for L389 so I think it deserves a spot on the ISOGG tree.

Thomas Krahn has it as "Approx. hg: R-P25*" :

http://ymap.ftdna.com/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse_details/hs_chrY?name=L389

I can't speak for vineviz but I wondered this before. On the SNP result section there are actually no L389 test results at all. I'm not sure how he grouped the project or if he just proxied the result through some other method perhaps by process of eliminating the V88 and M335 guys.

[alan trowel hands.]

Does VV post regularly anywhere?  Is there a moder ht35 (in old money) project?  Above L11 is probably one of the things that most fascinates me in R1b today. 

[gtc]

Vineviz's diagram also did not include P25 so an additional question is does L389 fit above or below P25?  It appears that since V88 falls under P25, I think, that P25 is immediately above L389.  Perhaps P25 will be removed from the tree anyway.  I don't know.

Good questions. Vineviz's project shows about 30 men tested positive for L389 so I think it deserves a spot on the ISOGG tree.

Thomas Krahn has it as "Approx. hg: R-P25*" :

http://ymap.ftdna.com/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse_details/hs_chrY?name=L389

I can't speak for vineviz but I wondered this before. On the SNP result section there are actually no L389 test results at all. I'm not sure how he grouped the project or if he just proxied the result through some other method perhaps by process of eliminating the V88 and M335 guys.

Good point. And Thomas shows only 2 derived of 8 tested. Hmmm.

[df.reynolds]

Good point. And Thomas shows only 2 derived of 8 tested. Hmmm.

The two derived results and five of the six ancestral results are from recent WTYs (Sep 2012), so the ancestral results are for haplogroups other than R.

I believe L389 was not available for purchase from FTDNA until just recently.

--david