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saje
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« on: October 26, 2012, 03:34:16 PM »

Hi,

I tested my Y-DNA and was told by a group administer to take a SNP test for Z2105 because I am supposedly  L150+ L51-.  What will testing positive for Z2105 tell me? 

I am trying to find the lineage on my father's side, which to date is unknown.  So far I have matched people of Hungarian and Slovakian decent.   I see there is a subclade of Z2105 that is from Turkey and Armenia - L584.  Will testing positive for Z2105 tell me that I have Middle Eastern lineage?  Maybe this can be traced through Hungary years ago?

Thanks,

Saje
« Last Edit: October 26, 2012, 04:06:11 PM by saje » Logged
acekon
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« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2012, 02:34:32 AM »

Hi,

I tested my Y-DNA and was told by a group administer to take a SNP test for Z2105 because I am supposedly  L150+ L51-.  What will testing positive for Z2105 tell me?  

I am trying to find the lineage on my father's side, which to date is unknown.  So far I have matched people of Hungarian and Slovakian decent.   I see there is a subclade of Z2105 that is from Turkey and Armenia - L584.  Will testing positive for Z2105 tell me that I have Middle Eastern lineage?  Maybe this can be traced through Hungary years ago?

Thanks,

Saje

It is totally up to you who you want to identify with. To get to Z2105>L584/L277/* you will have to generally be positive for R-M269>L23>L150>Z2105

To sum up wiki"European R1b is dominated by R-M269"  Western R1b [ie,L51] have this root mutation, that you share in common.

If you want to identify with a Afro-Asiatic speaking communities like Shammar Toga tribe or Assyrian/Jewish community, in the Middle East, that is great; it is up to you.

If you want to identify with a Indo-European or other Uralic language speaking community in Middle East or Europe that is fine also;Bashkirs ,Armenian,Ancient Iranian Lurs,Slovaks, Hungarians,Germans,Poles, that is also great;it is up to you.

In fact there are no limits. It seems our R-M269 ancestor/ancestors spread far and wide, East Asia,South West Asia, Caucasus, South Asia, Eurasia, Eastern and Western Europe.
Personally  I'm trying to meet new people and join new projects; ie, Indo-European speaking peoples, strikes my fancy

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/India/default.aspx?section=yresults

"India subcontinent DNA Project (incl. India, Pakistan,Bangladesh,Nepal,Bhutan) - Y-DNA Classic Chart" There are only five R1b like our type in the project. I thought it would be nice to reach out and join anyway, since the Divali festive mood is upon us.

In the end choice is yours, but remember to be a good R1b ambassador, treating people with other diverse Ydna clades, with respect and kindness  : )
 

  
« Last Edit: October 27, 2012, 10:52:26 AM by acekon » Logged

YDNA: R-Z2105* Śląsk-Polska
MtDNA: U5b2a2*Königsberg-Ostpreussen
saje
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« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2012, 03:25:32 PM »

Thanks, acekon. I appreciate the response.  I know it is my free will to identify with whomever I choose.  I happen to identify with people throughout the world, generally if they are kind.  This is not the question. 

My question still stands.  What will testing Z2105+ tell me about the origins of my ancestry?
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Wayne Kauffman
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« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2012, 08:42:50 PM »

At this point not to much since it encompasses a wide geographically diverse range of haplotypes.  What is needed is for individuals,  such as yourself to test Geno 2.0, to help establish new branches downstream of L23 and begin to improve the geographic focus of specific haplogroup nodes.

The Geno 2.0 kit for a L277+ tester has been received at the lab. What is needed are other L23+ individuals to serve as comparison references to help identify and position some y-SNPs downstream of L23.
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U106-L48
saje
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« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2012, 07:46:50 AM »

Thanks, Wayne.  I took the Z2105 snp test with familytreen dna - where I tested my 67 ydna markers.  I just tested with ancestry dna - their new autosomal test.  I believe it's comparable to Geno 2.0.  Waiting for results.

Hopefully my new tests can help further knowledge of this subhaplogroup. 

Welcome, Ianshan75. 
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acekon
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« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2012, 10:12:41 AM »

Thanks, Wayne.  I took the Z2105 snp test with familytreen dna - where I tested my 67 ydna markers.  I just tested with ancestry dna - their new autosomal test.  I believe it's comparable to Geno 2.0.  Waiting for results.

Hopefully my new tests can help further knowledge of this subhaplogroup.  

Welcome, Ianshan75.  


It is nice to have Gioiello back, maybe he can give some ideas.
Where does your paternal ancestry originate?
« Last Edit: October 29, 2012, 10:15:07 AM by acekon » Logged

YDNA: R-Z2105* Śląsk-Polska
MtDNA: U5b2a2*Königsberg-Ostpreussen
saje
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« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2012, 12:51:11 PM »

Hi Acekon,

My father's paternal ancestry is unknown - hence my interest.  The search continues....

Best,

Saje
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acekon
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« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2012, 01:31:20 PM »

Hi Acekon,

My father's paternal ancestry is unknown - hence my interest.  The search continues....

Best,

Saje

I can only speculate, and this is only speculation. I'm so far I have tested Z2105+ however L584- and L277-  with paternal ancestry from around Silesia(Poland,German,Czech regions)  . Maliclavelli is also in our clade z2105+, he has   Italian ancestry . So the question of becomes of speculation of time and origin. The oldest sample would probably be, judging solely modern  str's to compare with Z2105+, would probably be the U98VT, 1080ce(Czech Monastery ) Dr Vanek sample on ysearch, although this would be highly speculative on my part. Since we do not know  what Kromsdorf is 343/269 L51+ or Z2105+ or other unknown branch, we can only speculate. Maliclavelli is of the opinion that Z2105- will be found in Italy. However we shall have to wait and see what other results are added. There are also many gifted and intelligent posters on the forum who are scientists and experts in other fields with a very good knowledge of strs and snps and general history, so it should only be a matter of time before they can triangulate a rough time estimate and location relative to L51.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2012, 01:32:30 PM by acekon » Logged

YDNA: R-Z2105* Śląsk-Polska
MtDNA: U5b2a2*Königsberg-Ostpreussen
saje
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« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2012, 01:56:19 PM »

Thanks, Acekon.  Always interesting. 
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saje
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« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2012, 02:21:01 PM »

My ysearch #XQE85
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Maliclavelli
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« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2012, 02:25:37 PM »

My ysearch #XQE85

Saje, your results seem reliable. I am always wary, because everyone may put results on ySearch and usually I ask his FTDNA number. If these are your results, I’d say that you very likely will be Z2105+ (of course these results are of an R-L23/L150+). Your haplotype is the Eastern European L23, in fact your closest ones on ySearch are from Poland, even though nobody has your DYS464=14-14-15-16, but you are very far from me, who have 14-14-16-17. If we presuppose a modal 14-15-16-18, your DYS464 would have many mutations:

14-15-16-18
14-15-16-17

my is 14-14-16-17

but yours would have also
14-14-15-17
and 14-14-15-16

I’d say an Eastern European L23/Z2105+ but of a line not yet found so far.

Of course we cannot think that we have had all these mutations and the most part of the Eastern European L23-s have had anyone. They are in fact above all 14-15-16-18 (and acekon with only one mutation 14-15-16-19). We have to think to many mutations around the modal, some gone for the tangent.

Anyway your closer relative will have to had 14-14-15-16. Probably this format is the same from thousands of years.
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Maliclavelli


YDNA: R-S12460


MtDNA: K1a1b1e

saje
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« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2012, 02:32:44 PM »

Maliclavelli,

Thanks for your time and expertise!  This is very interesting to me.  I've heard I may have Jewish blood, but of course I can't be certain.  Do you suggest that I take a further SNP test?  If so, which ones?  Is there a specific test I should take that would help the community? 

If I test downstream from Z2105 and test positive, does this mean I would have middle-eastern ancestry "Armenian, Jewish, etc"?

"I’d say an Eastern European L23/Z2105+ but of a line not yet found so far."  Very interesting.

Thanks again,

Saje
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Maliclavelli
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« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2012, 02:47:57 PM »

Of course after testing Z2105 (which I presuppose positive) you should test L277 and L584. We know our results from 23andme, because these two SNPs were tested by this firm (L584 was discovered when I invited an Iranian friend of mine to send his data to “Adriano Squecco”). But at this point probably you should do Geno 2.0, even though I don’t know which SNPs they test around L23.

It seems so far that European L23-s are above all Z2105+ but L277- and L584-, whereas Middle Eastern ones are either L277+ or L584+. For this I think that European L23-s are ancestral and the Middle Eastern ones derived. Anyway we will know something more by next results from Geno 2.0.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2012, 02:51:46 PM by Maliclavelli » Logged

Maliclavelli


YDNA: R-S12460


MtDNA: K1a1b1e

saje
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« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2012, 02:58:22 PM »

Thanks, Maliciavelli.  I'm sure I'm z2105 - you're the second person stating so.  I'll await my results and then either take the separate SNP test or try Geno 2.  I sent away for the AncestryDNA test recently - hopefully not prematurely as I've just learned that Geno 2 might be a better choice... 
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