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Author Topic: R1b1b2a1a2d3 U152 L2+ S139  (Read 435 times)
gunslingingardener
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« on: October 16, 2012, 07:36:22 PM »

A relative had traced the Gardner ancestry back as follows:

Celtic warriors among the Alps in northern Italy according to to the Y - chromosome R1b1b2a1a2d3 U152 L2+ S139

Then they were Roman Frankish who lived along the Rhine in Wallonia in Belgium along northern France. It was described as an "Anglo - Saxon" family, the Saxons in England being the same as the Saxons in Walloonia. They invaded during the Norman Conquest of England.
The Patriarch was Sir Osbern le Gardyner, Knight, who lived in Outremer and fought in the Third Crusades and was later Lord of the Manor in Lancashire, England.

I've read that Celts were cavalry for the Spartans and the Romans. The Alpine Celts could have been a lot of things, U152 is found all over Europe.
What could U152 L2+ S139 be?
Celts...Romans...Spartans...Franks...Saxons...Vikings...Normans

It seems most are descended from the Celts anyway.
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Jean-Pierre
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« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2012, 03:06:04 AM »

There is no Rhine in Belgium.
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Curtis Pigman(Pigmon)
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« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2012, 10:15:26 AM »

If I had to guess, I would say Spartan based on a couple of close matches I have in the Greek study with Athanasoupoulas and another.  My L2+ matches closely with studies of the Tyrol people of Northern Italy and Austria as well.

A relative had traced the Gardner ancestry back as follows:

Celtic warriors among the Alps in northern Italy according to to the Y - chromosome R1b1b2a1a2d3 U152 L2+ S139

Then they were Roman Frankish who lived along the Rhine in Wallonia in Belgium along northern France. It was described as an "Anglo - Saxon" family, the Saxons in England being the same as the Saxons in Walloonia. They invaded during the Norman Conquest of England.
The Patriarch was Sir Osbern le Gardyner, Knight, who lived in Outremer and fought in the Third Crusades and was later Lord of the Manor in Lancashire, England.

I've read that Celts were cavalry for the Spartans and the Romans. The Alpine Celts could have been a lot of things, U152 is found all over Europe.
What could U152 L2+ S139 be?
Celts...Romans...Spartans...Franks...Saxons...Vikings...Normans

It seems most are descended from the Celts anyway.
Logged

R1b1a2a1a1b3c3a L2+ Z49+ Z142+ (L20-,L196-,and L562-)
ysearch.org ID ZHHCY

Website:  curtisnsissy.tripod.com
Richard Rocca
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« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2012, 10:39:00 AM »

If I had to guess, I would say Spartan based on a couple of close matches I have in the Greek study with Athanasoupoulas and another.  My L2+ matches closely with studies of the Tyrol people of Northern Italy and Austria as well.

A relative had traced the Gardner ancestry back as follows:

Celtic warriors among the Alps in northern Italy according to to the Y - chromosome R1b1b2a1a2d3 U152 L2+ S139

Then they were Roman Frankish who lived along the Rhine in Wallonia in Belgium along northern France. It was described as an "Anglo - Saxon" family, the Saxons in England being the same as the Saxons in Walloonia. They invaded during the Norman Conquest of England.
The Patriarch was Sir Osbern le Gardyner, Knight, who lived in Outremer and fought in the Third Crusades and was later Lord of the Manor in Lancashire, England.

I've read that Celts were cavalry for the Spartans and the Romans. The Alpine Celts could have been a lot of things, U152 is found all over Europe.
What could U152 L2+ S139 be?
Celts...Romans...Spartans...Franks...Saxons...Vikings...Normans

It seems most are descended from the Celts anyway.

U152 and L2 is at least several thousand years older than anything as old as Spartans, Romans, etc. So, while you may have close matches with someone from Greece, it is much more likely that they originate from someone from central Europe and the Alps than the other way around.
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Paternal: R1b-U152+L2*
Maternal: H
Curtis Pigman(Pigmon)
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« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2012, 12:53:30 PM »

If I had to guess, I would say Spartan based on a couple of close matches I have in the Greek study with Athanasoupoulas and another.  My L2+ matches closely with studies of the Tyrol people of Northern Italy and Austria as well.

A relative had traced the Gardner ancestry back as follows:

Celtic warriors among the Alps in northern Italy according to to the Y - chromosome R1b1b2a1a2d3 U152 L2+ S139

Then they were Roman Frankish who lived along the Rhine in Wallonia in Belgium along northern France. It was described as an "Anglo - Saxon" family, the Saxons in England being the same as the Saxons in Walloonia. They invaded during the Norman Conquest of England.
The Patriarch was Sir Osbern le Gardyner, Knight, who lived in Outremer and fought in the Third Crusades and was later Lord of the Manor in Lancashire, England.

I've read that Celts were cavalry for the Spartans and the Romans. The Alpine Celts could have been a lot of things, U152 is found all over Europe.
What could U152 L2+ S139 be?
Celts...Romans...Spartans...Franks...Saxons...Vikings...Normans

It seems most are descended from the Celts anyway.

U152 and L2 is at least several thousand years older than anything as old as Spartans, Romans, etc. So, while you may have close matches with someone from Greece, it is much more likely that they originate from someone from central Europe and the Alps than the other way around.

I can see how that could be.  The Macedonian tribes from the North could have been a conglomerate of people including the celts. 
Quote from    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Sparta:
This civilization seems to have fallen into decline by the late Bronze Age, when, according to Herodotus, Macedonian tribes from the north marched into Peloponnese, where they were called Dorians and subjugating the local tribes, settled there.[4]

Tradition describes how, some sixty years after the Trojan War, a Dorian migration from the north took place and eventually led to the rise of classical Sparta.[5] This tradition is, however, contradictory and was written down at a time long after the events they supposedly describe. Hence skeptics like Karl Julius Beloch have denied that any such event occurred.[6] Chadwick has argued, on the basis of slight regional variations that he detected in Linear B, that the Dorians had previously lived in the Dorian regions as an oppressed majority, speaking the regional dialect, and emerged when they overthrew their masters.[7]
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R1b1a2a1a1b3c3a L2+ Z49+ Z142+ (L20-,L196-,and L562-)
ysearch.org ID ZHHCY

Website:  curtisnsissy.tripod.com
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