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Author Topic: R1b-L21xDF13 update  (Read 574 times)
Mike Walsh
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« on: October 13, 2012, 04:16:15 PM »

Here are the L21+ but DF13- guys that I can find. I sorted it by region. I see we have an Ulsterman in the list so the Irish are represented. A couple of Scots are in too.


f232541   Roma   R1b-L21>DF63   X1363-913   Spain
fN66966   Gery   R1b-L21>DF63   X1363 -unassigned   France, Bretagne, Finistère, Morlaix
f167223   LeBlanc   R1b-L21*   X13 -unassigned   France, Poitou-Charente, Vienne, Martaizé, Vienne
f127090   LeBlanc   R1b-L21>DF63   X1363 -unassigned   France
f25304   Maddox   R1b-L21**   X13 -unassigned   France
fH1922   Schaefer   R1b-L21*   X13 -unassigned   Germany
fN80403   Bishop   R1b-L21**   X13-1313   England, London
fN72406   Darke   R1b-L21>DF63   X1363 -unassigned   England, London
f26883   Tupper   R1b-L21**   X13 -unassigned   England, South East, West Sussex, Bury
f37201   Berry   R1b-L21**   X13 -unassigned   England, Yorkshire and Humber, West Yorkshire, Almondbury Huddersfield
f174870   Franklin   R1b-L21*   X1363 -unassigned   England
f49976   Franklin   R1b-L21>DF63   X1363 -unassigned   England
f54798   Franklin   R1b-L21>DF63   X1363 -unassigned   England
fB2414   Franklin?   R1b-L21>DF63   X1363 -unassigned   England
f236395   zzzUnknown   R1b-L21**   X13-1313   England
fN76446   McFarlin   R1b-L21>DF63   X13-1415   Ireland, Ulster, Co. Tyrone
f208171   Allan   R1b-L21>DF63   X1363-913   Scotland, Fife, Kilconquhar
f191950   Lowden   R1b-L21>DF63   X1363 -unassigned   Scotland, Tayside, Forfarshire, Dundee
f14713   Sutherland   R1b-L21>DF63   X1363 -unassigned   Scotland, Lothian, Edinburgh
fN11946   Broom   R1b-L21>DF63   X1363-913   Scotland
f94428   Meadows   R1b-L21**   X13-1313   UK
f180338   Chavez   R1b-L21>DF63   X1363 -unassigned   zzzUnkOrigin
f51598   Franklin   R1b-L21>DF63   X1363 -unassigned   zzzUnkOrigin
f211188   Franklin   R1b-L21>DF63   X1363 -unassigned   zzzUnkOrigin
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R1b-L21>L513(DF1)>L705.2
rms2
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« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2012, 04:55:21 PM »

I know this is considered a tricky subject, or at least it has been in the past, but I wouldn't regard McFarlin (ancestral surname McFarland) as Irish. That's a Scottish surname, and, of course, Ulster Scots are a well known ethnic group.

Thus far, really, no one with an Irish surname has tested DF13-.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2012, 04:55:30 PM by rms2 » Logged

Mike Forsythe
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« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2012, 07:46:04 AM »

I find it interesting that perhaps McFarland/McFarlin was first found in Aberdeenshire,were they were descendent from an ancient Chief Allan.

McFarland Family Crest and History
« Last Edit: October 14, 2012, 08:55:44 AM by Mike Forsyth » Logged
alan trowel hands.
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« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2012, 07:48:06 AM »

Here are the L21+ but DF13- guys that I can find. I sorted it by region. I see we have an Ulsterman in the list so the Irish are represented. A couple of Scots are in too.


f232541   Roma   R1b-L21>DF63   X1363-913   Spain
fN66966   Gery   R1b-L21>DF63   X1363 -unassigned   France, Bretagne, Finistère, Morlaix
f167223   LeBlanc   R1b-L21*   X13 -unassigned   France, Poitou-Charente, Vienne, Martaizé, Vienne
f127090   LeBlanc   R1b-L21>DF63   X1363 -unassigned   France
f25304   Maddox   R1b-L21**   X13 -unassigned   France
fH1922   Schaefer   R1b-L21*   X13 -unassigned   Germany
fN80403   Bishop   R1b-L21**   X13-1313   England, London
fN72406   Darke   R1b-L21>DF63   X1363 -unassigned   England, London
f26883   Tupper   R1b-L21**   X13 -unassigned   England, South East, West Sussex, Bury
f37201   Berry   R1b-L21**   X13 -unassigned   England, Yorkshire and Humber, West Yorkshire, Almondbury Huddersfield
f174870   Franklin   R1b-L21*   X1363 -unassigned   England
f49976   Franklin   R1b-L21>DF63   X1363 -unassigned   England
f54798   Franklin   R1b-L21>DF63   X1363 -unassigned   England
fB2414   Franklin?   R1b-L21>DF63   X1363 -unassigned   England
f236395   zzzUnknown   R1b-L21**   X13-1313   England
fN76446   McFarlin   R1b-L21>DF63   X13-1415   Ireland, Ulster, Co. Tyrone
f208171   Allan   R1b-L21>DF63   X1363-913   Scotland, Fife, Kilconquhar
f191950   Lowden   R1b-L21>DF63   X1363 -unassigned   Scotland, Tayside, Forfarshire, Dundee
f14713   Sutherland   R1b-L21>DF63   X1363 -unassigned   Scotland, Lothian, Edinburgh
fN11946   Broom   R1b-L21>DF63   X1363-913   Scotland
f94428   Meadows   R1b-L21**   X13-1313   UK
f180338   Chavez   R1b-L21>DF63   X1363 -unassigned   zzzUnkOrigin
f51598   Franklin   R1b-L21>DF63   X1363 -unassigned   zzzUnkOrigin
f211188   Franklin   R1b-L21>DF63   X1363 -unassigned   zzzUnkOrigin


I would still think that the real story of the above list is that despite the sample being apparently minute for continentals compared to the isles, the continentals make up a third.  That would mean per head its vastly more common on the continent than in the isles despite the above simple count.  As I always say, meaning only comes out when a number in a clade per numbers tested percentage is given on a country by country basis.  Any simple list is always going to have the isles predominate because testing has an advantage in numbers in the isles of around 2 decimal places.  The four French in their small sample are worth several hundred of the isles hits given this disparity. 
« Last Edit: October 14, 2012, 07:56:33 AM by alan trowel hands. » Logged
k.o.gran
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« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2012, 08:13:20 AM »

What really surprises me is how few L21** we know of. According to my notes, we have 5 kits with different surnames that are L21**. But we know of 11 unique surnames that have tested DF63+. And ca. 95% of L21 are DF13 (according to my last count). I might be jumping the gun here, but to me that indicates that there wasn't much growth within L21 before DF13 and DF63 appeared.

-Kai
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Mike Walsh
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« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2012, 09:00:15 AM »

What really surprises me is how few L21** we know of. According to my notes, we have 5 kits with different surnames that are L21**. But we know of 11 unique surnames that have tested DF63+. And ca. 95% of L21 are DF13 (according to my last count). I might be jumping the gun here, but to me that indicates that there wasn't much growth within L21 before DF13 and DF63 appeared.

-Kai

Well, either there wasn't much growth (relative to DF13) or the growth that was there was cut-off.. extinguished, like most Y chomosome lineages.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2012, 09:19:45 AM by Mikewww » Logged

R1b-L21>L513(DF1)>L705.2
Peter M
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« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2012, 10:54:21 AM »

What really surprises me is how few L21** we know of. According to my notes, we have 5 kits with different surnames that are L21**. But we know of 11 unique surnames that have tested DF63+. And ca. 95% of L21 are DF13 (according to my last count). I might be jumping the gun here, but to me that indicates that there wasn't much growth within L21 before DF13 and DF63 appeared.

-Kai

Well, either there wasn't much growth (relative to DF13) or the growth that was there was cut-off.. extinguished, like most Y chomosome lineages.

or their descendents are living in an area where DNA testing is not en vogue.

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Mike Walsh
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« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2012, 02:33:03 PM »

What really surprises me is how few L21** we know of. According to my notes, we have 5 kits with different surnames that are L21**. But we know of 11 unique surnames that have tested DF63+. And ca. 95% of L21 are DF13 (according to my last count). I might be jumping the gun here, but to me that indicates that there wasn't much growth within L21 before DF13 and DF63 appeared.

Well, either there wasn't much growth (relative to DF13) or the growth that was there was cut-off.. extinguished, like most Y chomosome lineages.

or their descendents are living in an area where DNA testing is not en vogue.

Good point. Maybe some day we'll find a bunch of diverse DF63 people in some place like Croatia or Serbia.  Wouldn't that be something?
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