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stoneman
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« on: October 04, 2012, 09:04:16 AM »

A man claiming to be a professor contacted me through the modal I created.I looked at his matches and told him that he probably belonged to L21.He was very interested in Z156.He thanked me and said that he was going for more tests.I think that he should be helping me .
Another man with a similar surname contacted me to see if we were related.I looked at his profile and mine and we had a gd of 17 at 37 markers. I did find his matches though and he looks like he belongs to U106+,U198.
Awhile ago I made a bold statement about R1b Z156 originating in Ireland. I didnt really believe it myself but because of that there are a lot of people focusing on this subclade. I have learned a lot about it.Thanks
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Mike Walsh
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« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2012, 09:30:12 AM »

A man claiming to be a professor contacted me through the modal I created.I looked at his matches and told him that he probably belonged to L21.He was very interested in Z156.He thanked me and said that he was going for more tests.I think that he should be helping me .
Another man with a similar surname contacted me to see if we were related.I looked at his profile and mine and we had a gd of 17 at 37 markers. I did find his matches though and he looks like he belongs to U106+,U198.
Awhile ago I made a bold statement about R1b Z156 originating in Ireland. I didnt really believe it myself but because of that there are a lot of people focusing on this subclade. I have learned a lot about it.Thanks


Very good. I think you created a Ysearch record and that is helping so people can find you as well you find them. That's very good I wish everyone would do this.

I recommend you (and everyone) check out this tool too. I like it. I think it is was built by some Russian folks and good for them!

If you want to find a list of anyone with a particular SNP:
http://www.semargl.me/en/dna/ydna/snp/

If you want to find everyone with certain STR matches:
http://www.semargl.me/en/dna/ydna/query/

This is much easier than the Ysearch tool and has the benefit of including people who aren't in Ysearch.

Of course, if you find a kit # of someone you want to contact you have to search for that kit # and "FTDNA" or "DNA" on the internet and then try to find that project screen or a Ysearch ID. If you can find the right project you can email the project administrator and ask them to forward your request on to the right person.
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R1b-L21>L513(DF1)>S6365>L705.2(&CTS11744,CTS6621)
Mike Walsh
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« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2012, 03:23:41 PM »

The thing I know about this site is that I didnt give the owner permission to take my dna and broadcast it. I had a joice to join ysearch and did because of the link with FTDNA . Maybe all of us that arent happy about it should sue him. This unknown person mined all the data without permission.

I didn't mean that you needed to use the site if you don't want to. It was just a suggestion.
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R1b-L21>L513(DF1)>S6365>L705.2(&CTS11744,CTS6621)
stoneman
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« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2012, 12:46:01 PM »

My closest U106 match comes from Cornwall. I emailed him about testing for Z156 but got no reply. It is difficult at times to make progress. We all are depending on other people.
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Mark Jost
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« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2012, 01:42:54 PM »

A man claiming to be a professor contacted me through the modal I created.I looked at his matches and told him that he probably belonged to L21.He was very interested in Z156.He thanked me and said that he was going for more tests.I think that he should be helping me .
Another man with a similar surname contacted me to see if we were related.I looked at his profile and mine and we had a gd of 17 at 37 markers. I did find his matches though and he looks like he belongs to U106+,U198.
Awhile ago I made a bold statement about R1b Z156 originating in Ireland. I didnt really believe it myself but because of that there are a lot of people focusing on this subclade. I have learned a lot about it.Thanks


Very good. I think you created a Ysearch record and that is helping so people can find you as well you find them. That's very good I wish everyone would do this.

I recommend you (and everyone) check out this tool too. I like it. I think it is was built by some Russian folks and good for them!

If you want to find a list of anyone with a particular SNP:
http://www.semargl.me/en/dna/ydna/snp/

If you want to find everyone with certain STR matches:
http://www.semargl.me/en/dna/ydna/query/

This is much easier than the Ysearch tool and has the benefit of including people who aren't in Ysearch.

Of course, if you find a kit # of someone you want to contact you have to search for that kit # and "FTDNA" or "DNA" on the internet and then try to find that project screen or a Ysearch ID. If you can find the right project you can email the project administrator and ask them to forward your request on to the right person.

I havent checked this site in a long while. Thanks for reminding me of it. I just found another probable Scot that that fits my list of 36 HTs that have common off-modal guys.

206703   Conn?   R1b1a2   http://www.familytreedna.com/public/conn/

Thanks Mike.

MJost
« Last Edit: October 05, 2012, 01:43:33 PM by Mark Jost » Logged

148326
Pos: Z245 L459 L21 DF13**
Neg: DF23 L513 L96 L144 Z255 Z253 DF21 DF41 (Z254 P66 P314.2 M37 M222  L563 L526 L226 L195 L193 L192.1 L159.2 L130 DF63 DF5 DF49)
WTYNeg: L555 L371 (L9/L10 L370 L302/L319.1 L554 L564 L577 P69 L626 L627 L643 L679)
Mark Jost
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« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2012, 01:53:56 PM »

In a rootsweb post today concerning Lab testing methods the below statement was included

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/Y-DNA-PROJECTS/2012-10/1350054445

"...If a man is a match with other men (same surname or at a high
 number of
markers) who are known to be L1+, you may infer that he is L1+
 regardless of the results of his DYS439."

As know, L1 is pretty old. Does anyone have an age?

Now this is what MikeW is assuming today in varieties that inlcude a terminal SNP. We can apply this assumption across similar matches. Questions arise, Are they now considering the 111 marker level and an low associated GD range quantified if one is positive for a specific SNP then any high level match with a low GD would be a match? What would be considered low?

MJost
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148326
Pos: Z245 L459 L21 DF13**
Neg: DF23 L513 L96 L144 Z255 Z253 DF21 DF41 (Z254 P66 P314.2 M37 M222  L563 L526 L226 L195 L193 L192.1 L159.2 L130 DF63 DF5 DF49)
WTYNeg: L555 L371 (L9/L10 L370 L302/L319.1 L554 L564 L577 P69 L626 L627 L643 L679)
Mike Walsh
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« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2012, 06:44:30 PM »

Now this is what MikeW is assuming today in varieties that inlcude a terminal SNP. We can apply this assumption across similar matches.
This may just be a choice of wording and I'm being picky but,
no, I am not assuming any particular kind of match of STR results in the same SNP result. Obviously, there is a correlation, but I've tried to be careful to say the STR signature based varieties I assign are speculative.  The people who haven't tested SNPs but fit in a variety I label as suspects.  I still recommend testing to the terminal SNP level for everyone, except when you have true genealogically proven relationship (a brother, 1st cousin, etc.) that matches you on STRs as they should. In that case only one person in the family needs to test.

I've been fooled both on STR matches that had different SNP results and vice versa.

« Last Edit: October 12, 2012, 06:45:39 PM by Mikewww » Logged

R1b-L21>L513(DF1)>S6365>L705.2(&CTS11744,CTS6621)
Mark Jost
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« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2012, 10:38:08 PM »

It seems that FtDNA is stating that if a person with a or at a high
 number of markers equals a surname match.

Your correct, I probably didnt make my statement clear enough. Example would be
Erwin   R-L21/DF13/L555   555-2410-A
Hoyt   R-L21/DF13/L555   555-2410-A
Hutchinson  zzL21suspect   555-2410-A
Brown   R-L21   555-2410-A

All should be positive for the L555 based on the original 2410-A off-modal variety, and if the match is at "at a high  number of markers ... you may infer that he is " L555

But sure testing would be highly suggested to confirm at least two or three family members who have the same surname. Other surnames matching a main family surname should have testing to confirm and/or define the SNPs boarders.

FtDNA's comment was the first I have seen mentioned this in such a way.

MJost


« Last Edit: October 12, 2012, 10:38:47 PM by Mark Jost » Logged

148326
Pos: Z245 L459 L21 DF13**
Neg: DF23 L513 L96 L144 Z255 Z253 DF21 DF41 (Z254 P66 P314.2 M37 M222  L563 L526 L226 L195 L193 L192.1 L159.2 L130 DF63 DF5 DF49)
WTYNeg: L555 L371 (L9/L10 L370 L302/L319.1 L554 L564 L577 P69 L626 L627 L643 L679)
gtc
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« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2012, 11:01:37 PM »

The thing I know about this site is that I didnt give the owner permission to take my dna and broadcast it. I had a joice to join ysearch and did because of the link with FTDNA . Maybe all of us that arent happy about it should sue him. This unknown person mined all the data without permission.

I didn't mean that you needed to use the site if you don't want to. It was just a suggestion.

Sue? On what basis? The data in FTDNA projects is publicly viewable.

I think that Russian site is very useful, although its "robotWertnera" doesn't seem to have been run for around 6 months on the data I've been looking at.
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Y-DNA: R1b-Z12* (R1b1a2a1a1a3b2b1a1a1) GGG-GF Ireland (roots reportedly Anglo-Norman)
mtDNA: I3b (FMS) Maternal lines Irish
Peter M
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« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2012, 09:13:44 AM »

In a rootsweb post today concerning Lab testing methods the below statement was included

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/Y-DNA-PROJECTS/2012-10/1350054445

"...If a man is a match with other men (same surname or at a high
 number of
markers) who are known to be L1+, you may infer that he is L1+
 regardless of the results of his DYS439."

As know, L1 is pretty old. Does anyone have an age?

MJost

This statement is more about primers and testing results than about GD. In the past, DYS439 was tested using a primer that didn't work (was prevented from binding) if the L1 SNP was present. This NULL DYS439 did NOT mean the repeat count was 0, it just meant there wasn't a call using the lab procedure of the day.

In those days, people with a NULL DYS439 could safely assume to be L1+ (positive) and people with e.g. DYS439=12 would consider this to mean L1- (negative). Therefore few people ordered a L1 test (have a look at the NULL439 project).

Now the primer has been improved and even L1+ people get a non-zero call for DYS439 (again have a look at the NULL439 project) and everybody who is "close" to a known L1+ is strongly advised to order a L1 test (or the Deep Clade), as the NULL DYS439 indicator doesn't work anymore.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2012, 10:56:51 AM by Peter M » Logged
Mark Jost
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« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2012, 11:59:33 AM »

I will agree. The specific section I pointed out is still in question in any other haplotype variety with a known subclade SNP identified as well.

MJost
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148326
Pos: Z245 L459 L21 DF13**
Neg: DF23 L513 L96 L144 Z255 Z253 DF21 DF41 (Z254 P66 P314.2 M37 M222  L563 L526 L226 L195 L193 L192.1 L159.2 L130 DF63 DF5 DF49)
WTYNeg: L555 L371 (L9/L10 L370 L302/L319.1 L554 L564 L577 P69 L626 L627 L643 L679)
stoneman
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« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2012, 12:29:09 PM »

I was tested for this SNP and I am negative.Has Mark a TMRCA for this group?


In a rootsweb post today concerning Lab testing methods the below statement was included

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/Y-DNA-PROJECTS/2012-10/1350054445

"...If a man is a match with other men (same surname or at a high
 number of
markers) who are known to be L1+, you may infer that he is L1+
 regardless of the results of his DYS439."

As know, L1 is pretty old. Does anyone have an age?

MJost

This statement is more about primers and testing results than about GD. In the past, DYS439 was tested using a primer that didn't work (was prevented from binding) if the L1 SNP was present. This NULL DYS439 did NOT mean the repeat count was 0, it just meant there wasn't a call using the lab procedure of the day.

In those days, people with a NULL DYS439 could safely assume to be L1+ (positive) and people with e.g. DYS439=12 would consider this to mean L1- (negative). Therefore few people ordered a L1 test (have a look at the NULL439 project).

Now the primer has been improved and even L1+ people get a non-zero call for DYS439 (again have a look at the NULL439 project) and everybody who is "close" to a known L1+ is strongly advised to order a L1 test (or the Deep Clade), as the NULL DYS439 indicator doesn't work anymore.


I
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stoneman
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« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2012, 09:35:17 AM »

The thing I know about this site is that I didnt give the owner permission to take my dna and broadcast it. I had a joice to join ysearch and did because of the link with FTDNA . Maybe all of us that arent happy about it should sue him. This unknown person mined all the data without permission.

I didn't mean that you needed to use the site if you don't want to. It was just a suggestion.

Sue? On what basis? The data in FTDNA projects is publicly viewable.

I think that Russian site is very useful, although its "robotWertnera" doesn't seem to have been run for around 6 months on the data I've been looking at.

You think the site is okay. Lets take your Z12. Most of the Z12 people come from Devon which points to origin. TMRCA 1600 to 2300 ybp. That is before Saxon,Viking and Norman period. Your ancestors may or may not have been part of a Norman force that came to Ireland.There were 10 people of the name in the 1659 census in the Dublin area.
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glentane
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« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2012, 12:52:07 PM »


I recommend you (and everyone) check out this tool too. I like it. I think it is was built by some Russian folks and good for them!

If you want to find a list of anyone with a particular SNP:
http://www.semargl.me/en/dna/ydna/snp/

If you want to find everyone with certain STR matches:
http://www.semargl.me/en/dna/ydna/query/

This is much easier than the Ysearch tool and has the benefit of including people who aren't in Ysearch.

That semargl tool is a great piece of work. Thanks for showing us.
I've just been messing about on it now, and all I had to do was pop in five odd str values I was suspicious of et voila! a good chunk of my surname group, some known fellow-travellers, and a few anonymous I never knew of (I'm DF13, waiting on batch 472 (saving me ever so much cash in the meanwhile :D), but you've got me down, fairly justifiably I reckon, as DF13* in your spready).
No clue as to what that instant fingerprinting of our lot on so few markers means, but it was like, boom!, there it is, out of the whole database (I think).

One thing I noticed with the map feature is that the robot or whatever can handle north and south, but it's been tricked by the format of the east or west of Greenwich values in I suppose YSearch.
Resulting in me and a kinsman landing in the North Sea, because it didn't read the W tagged on after the value, which should otherwise be negative, and if you look at the DF13 map there's a previously undiscovered tribe of Yankees hunkered down in Kazakhstan or Uyghur-land.
Had me going there, for a minute, until I realised what was up and clicked a few balloons lol.

I'll see if I can change that. Nope. It just gets all cranky and demands a positive integer.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2012, 12:55:30 PM by glentane » Logged
razyn
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« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2012, 02:10:48 PM »


One thing I noticed with the map feature is that the robot or whatever can handle north and south, but it's been tricked by the format of the east or west of Greenwich values in I suppose YSearch.
Resulting in me and a kinsman landing in the North Sea, because it didn't read the W tagged on after the value, which should otherwise be negative, and if you look at the DF13 map there's a previously undiscovered tribe of Yankees hunkered down in Kazakhstan or Uyghur-land.
Had me going there, for a minute, until I realised what was up and clicked a few balloons lol.

I'll see if I can change that. Nope. It just gets all cranky and demands a positive integer.

Have you tried converting the negative longitude to a positive by subtracting it from 360 (or however that works)?  The earth is kind of round, it should be possible.  I haven't tried.

Vladimir Semargl is a Facebook friend and I directed him to this thread, since we were mostly saying nice things about his mapping and matching tools.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2012, 02:13:13 PM by razyn » Logged

R1b Z196*
inver2b1
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« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2012, 02:30:24 PM »

Possibly a stupid question but is it possible to take info from a site like Semargl and construct a crude tree? What I mean is say you have about 40 people in a clade (of course those 40 people have a common ancestor at the date the clade started) can you take their marker info and try to create a tree with common ancestors of groups of individuals?
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I-L126
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glentane
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« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2012, 10:58:35 PM »


Have you tried converting the negative longitude to a positive by subtracting it from 360
Good idea. Nothing wrong with your mate's site by the way, this is Ysearch I'm fiddling about with.
Just tried monkeying about with the "edit an existing user" tab again six ways from Sunday, and it ain't having none of it.
It only takes values up to +/-180, and so do these guys, that I was using to DdMmSs and redecimalise
<sad face>
http://transition.fcc.gov/mb/audio/bickel/DDDMMSS-decimal.html

Don't want to push my luck and end up fat-fingering my entire Ysearch profile into oblivion, so I'm a bit stuck for ideas. Stuck at 2degs16min48secs West, to be pedantic. Why didn't the Admiralty choose Bristol or somewhere? Thoughtless old wig-stands.
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