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Author Topic: At the origin of hg. R  (Read 689 times)
Maliclavelli
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« on: September 20, 2012, 02:59:34 PM »

1
Quote from: A_Wode on September 19, 2012, 12:32:33 PM
There is a R1 (a or b not sure) member currently pending in the R-Arab project http://www.familytreedna.com/public/r-arabia/default.aspx?section=yresults whose origin would be western coast of Iran if the tribal data is correct.

See if someone can predict his haplotype
13   25   14   10   12-12   12   12   11   13   14   31   17   
9-9   11   11   25   15   19   30   12-12-12-12-15-16   11   11   
19-21   15   16   16   16   34-36   12   11   11   8   
15-16   8   11   10   8   12   11   12   22-22   15   11   
12   13   14   9   13   23   21   14   12   11   13   10   11   
12   12

My response:
This is probably a real R1*, and doesn't mean anything about the expansion of R1a* or R1b*, being so ancient and diffused all over Eurasia and also Africa.

I have written a lot about R1a* in Western Europe, and probably the Klyosov's theory that put it in the Balkans owes something to it. Also if the Paper of Pichler was wrong in finding R1a* in the Rhaetian Region, they were at least R1a1*, not found in that percentage elsewhere, and also this is in favour of the origin of R1a* and R1b* in the Alps.

2
Well no R1* has been found to date, at least none of the samples publicly available (A_Wode)

3
My response:
M8009 Almadani United Arab Emirates R1
13 25 14 10 12-12 12 12 11 13 14 31 17 9-9 11 11 25 15 19 30 12-12-12-12-15-16 11 11 19-21 15 16 16 16 34-36 12 11 11 8 15-16 8 11 10 8 12 11 12 22-22 15 11 12 13 14 9 13 23 21 14 12 11 13 10 11 12 12

These are the 22 slowest markers out of 67 markers of Klyosov:
12 12 14 11 11 11 11 8 15 16 8 10 8 12 11 12 13 9 12 11 11 12

And these are the same values I had for R1*:
12 12 13 11 11 11 11 8 15 16 8 10 8 12 10 12 12 8 11 11 11 12

It could be also R* (or R1* is more ancient than it is thought). A separation of more than 20,000 years.

There is also the possibility that the R* which generated R1* wasn’t the same which generated R2* and that some new SNPs should be found.

4
My response:
It seems that many R* were found by Rocca et alii in 1KGP: NA20895, NA20887, NA20903, NA21105 (Gujaratis, India). We should ask Rocca.

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Maliclavelli


YDNA: R-S12460


MtDNA: K1a1b1e

Mkk
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« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2012, 11:43:48 AM »

A paper on Iran a few weeks ago showed a high number of basal R-something clades, so an origin of R1 in or around Iran isn't out of the question.

Ofcourse theories shouldn't be based on just one result.
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acekon
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« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2012, 11:46:18 AM »

Of course beside Q, where else.

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/r-arabia/default.aspx?section=yresults

In the ungrouped category mystery

beside each other
202815 -Italy
204340 -Sweden
M7508-Top Secret- unknown

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuB2zuU_cMw




« Last Edit: September 21, 2012, 11:48:48 AM by acekon » Logged

YDNA: R-Z2105* Śląsk-Polska
MtDNA: U5b2a2*Königsberg-Ostpreussen
Maliclavelli
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« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2012, 12:57:31 PM »

(From YHRD)


It seems that these values, almost rare, find some close match in Austronesian people, but DYS438=9 demonstrates that they belong to another haplogroup:

2   15   13   31   25   10   14   13   12,12   -1   -1   -1   -1   -1   -1   -1   -1   -1   -1   -1   -1   -1   -1   >>
                                                                     

2 of 60   Trobriand Islands, Papua New Guinea [Trobriands]   East Asian - Austronesian   Oceania / Australia


1   14   13   30   25   10   14   13   12,12   9   12   -1   -1   -1   -1   -1   -1   -1   -1   -1   -1   -1   -1   >>

1 of 186   Singapore [Malay]   East Asian - Austronesian   Asia

This from Germany is certainly hg. R:

1 of 1122   Stuttgart, Germany [German]   Eurasian - European - Western European   Europe
1   14   13   30   25   10   13   13   12,12   12   12   15   19   15   17   23   11   -1   -1   -1   -1   -1   -1   >>


And this too, and everything seems to indicate “Europe”:

1   14   13   29   25   10   13   13   12,12   12   12   14   18   16   17   23   12   -1   -1   -1   -1   -1   -1   >>

1 of 180   Granada, Spain [Spanish]   Eurasian - European - Western European   Europe

Of course they are some kind of R. The Spanish one probably R-P312 and subclades.
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Maliclavelli


YDNA: R-S12460


MtDNA: K1a1b1e

A_Wode
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« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2012, 01:10:50 PM »

I don't believe the testing is complete on the R1 individual, so let's wait and see. Many of the R* fellows look suspiciously like R2.
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Richard Rocca
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« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2012, 01:31:25 PM »

My response:
It seems that many R* were found by Rocca et alii in 1KGP: NA20895, NA20887, NA20903, NA21105 (Gujaratis, India). We should ask Rocca.

If I recall correctly, in the end there were no more R* and most, if not all turned out to be R2.
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Paternal: R1b-U152+L2*
Maternal: H
Maliclavelli
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« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2012, 02:17:13 PM »

My response:
It seems that many R* were found by Rocca et alii in 1KGP: NA20895, NA20887, NA20903, NA21105 (Gujaratis, India). We should ask Rocca.

If I recall correctly, in the end there were no more R* and most, if not all turned out to be R2.

Many thanks for this. But the Arab haplotype doesn't seem R2.
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Maliclavelli


YDNA: R-S12460


MtDNA: K1a1b1e

Maliclavelli
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« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2012, 02:55:50 PM »

After having put the 22 slowest markers on ySearch (NBJBW), the closest are all hg. Q, but at a GD of 3.
XF48N from Armenia also with DYS450=9.
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Maliclavelli


YDNA: R-S12460


MtDNA: K1a1b1e

Maliclavelli
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« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2012, 03:08:51 PM »

But just the Armenian from Iran is tested R1b1a2a.
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Maliclavelli


YDNA: R-S12460


MtDNA: K1a1b1e

Maliclavelli
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« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2012, 11:10:32 PM »

My response:
It seems that many R* were found by Rocca et alii in 1KGP: NA20895, NA20887, NA20903, NA21105 (Gujaratis, India). We should ask Rocca.

If I recall correctly, in the end there were no more R* and most, if not all turned out to be R2.

It seems that not all the Gujaratis came out R2a.

7/30/2012   NA20866   Y   R1b1a2a1*; M207+, L62+, M415+, P297+,  P310-, U106-, L51-, L150+, Z2103-Z2109+, Z2110-   GIH-Gujaratis

But how can he be positive for L62 (R1a*) and M415 (R1b1) and P297 (R1b1a)? But if L62+ were a mistake or a recurrent mutation, the case would be interesting.
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Maliclavelli


YDNA: R-S12460


MtDNA: K1a1b1e

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