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Author Topic: Contemporary paternal genetic landscape of Polish and German populations  (Read 2801 times)
Richard Rocca
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« on: September 12, 2012, 09:32:30 AM »

Contemporary paternal genetic landscape of Polish and German populations: from early medieval Slavic expansion to post-World War II resettlements

Krzysztof Rębała, Begoña Martínez-Cruz, Anke Tönjes, Peter Kovacs, Michael Stumvoll, Iris Lindner, Andreas Büttner, H-Erich Wichmann, Daniela Siváková, Miroslav Soták, Lluís Quintana-Murci, Zofia Szczerkowska, David Comas and the Genographic Consortium

European Journal of Human Genetics , (12 September 2012) | doi:10.1038/ejhg.2012.190

http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/ejhg2012190a.html

Abstract
Homogeneous Proto-Slavic genetic substrate and/or extensive mixing after World War II were suggested to explain homogeneity of contemporary Polish paternal lineages. Alternatively, Polish local populations might have displayed pre-war genetic heterogeneity owing to genetic drift and/or gene flow with neighbouring populations. Although sharp genetic discontinuity along the political border between Poland and Germany indisputably results from war-mediated resettlements and homogenisation, it remained unknown whether Y-chromosomal diversity in ethnically/linguistically defined populations was clinal or discontinuous before the war. In order to answer these questions and elucidate early Slavic migrations, 1156 individuals from several Slavic and German populations were analysed, including Polish pre-war regional populations and an autochthonous Slavic population from Germany. Y chromosomes were assigned to 39 haplogroups and genotyped for 19 STRs. Genetic distances revealed similar degree of differentiation of Slavic-speaking pre-war populations from German populations irrespective of duration and intensity of contacts with German speakers. Admixture estimates showed minor Slavic paternal ancestry (~20%) in modern eastern Germans and hardly detectable German paternal ancestry in Slavs neighbouring German populations for centuries. BATWING analysis of isolated Slavic populations revealed that their divergence was preceded by rapid demographic growth, undermining theory that Slavic expansion was primarily linguistic rather than population spread. Polish pre-war regional populations showed within-group heterogeneity and lower STR variation within R-M17 subclades compared with modern populations, which might have been homogenised by war resettlements. Our results suggest that genetic studies on early human history in the Vistula and Oder basins should rely on reconstructed pre-war rather than modern populations.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2012, 10:37:58 AM by Richard Rocca » Logged

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Richard Rocca
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« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2012, 10:13:45 AM »

As for R1b lineages tested down to the following SNPs:

M17, M458, M17, L23*, P311*, U106,*, U198, L48, P312*, SRY2627, U152*, L2*, L20 and L21
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Heber
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« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2012, 10:44:32 AM »

This is a paper from last weeks DNA in Forensics conference.

"The overall picture of Y chromosome and mtDNA diversity in Central Europe corresponds well with origin and later expansion of Corded Ware European culture. Thus, we suggest that genetic continuity existed in Central Europe between Bronze Age and Middle Ages when the earliest Slavic tribes were described."


DNA in Forensics 2012, Sep 06-08 2012
5th International EMPOP Meeting 8th International Forensic Y-User Workshop
The history of slavs in the light of Y chromosome and mtDNA variability
Mielnik - Sikorska M1, Daca P2, Woźniak M1,*, Malyarchuk BA3, Derenko MV3, Skonieczna K1,4, Grzybowski T1
1 Nicolaus Copernicus University, Ludwik Rydygier Collegium Medicum, Institute of Forensic Medicine, Department
of Molecular and Forensic Genetics, Bydgoszcz, Poland
2 Institute of Human Genetics, Polish Academy of Sciences, Poznań, Poland
3 Institute of Biological Problems of the North, Far-East Branch of the Russian Academy of Science, Magadan, Russia
4 The Postgraduate School of Molecular Medicine, Medical University of Warsaw, Warsaw, Poland
To explore the origin of Eastern Europeans we investigated Y chromosome and mitochondrial H5 haplogroup diversity in population samples from Ukraine and other Eastern European countries. Y chromosome diversity was analyzed using a panel of 11 SNP polymorphisms (including M458 – so called “Western Slavic marker”) and 17 Y-STRs on 154 DNA samples from Ukrainians. These results were compared to previously published data from Slavic and non-Slavic populations.
Mitochondrial DNA control-region sequences of about 2700 samples obtained from Eastern (Russians and Ukrainians) and Western Slavs (Czechs, Poles and Slovaks) were used to select 51 samples representing mitochondrial H5 haplogroup. For these mtDNAs the entire genome sequences were determined. Together with published data we have collected 210 complete mtDNA sequences belonging to the H5 haplogroup. Thus, improvement of the resolution of H5 haplogroup phylogeny and evolutionary age estimation of H5 subhaplogroups were possible. We were able to identify a number of new subhaplogroups (i.e. H5a1a1, H5a1r, H5a1s and others) as well as to
show that the founder H5 clade (12-15 ky old) is mainly represented by individuals from southern Europe. We also showed some subclusters (H5a1a, H5a1f, H5e1a, H5a2 and H5u), which are mainly represented by residents of central and eastern Europe. The evolutionary age of these subhaplogorups was dated between 2-5 ky. The overall picture of Y chromosome and mtDNA diversity in Central Europe corresponds well with origin and later expansion of Corded Ware European culture. Thus, we suggest that genetic continuity existed in Central Europe between Bronze Age and Middle Ages when the earliest Slavic tribes were described.
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Heber


 
R1b1a2a1a1b4  L459+ L21+ DF21+ DF13+ U198- U106- P66- P314.2- M37- M222- L96- L513- L48- L44- L4- L226- L2- L196- L195- L193- L192.1- L176.2- L165- L159.2- L148- L144- L130- L1-
Paternal L21* DF21


Maternal H1C1



alan trowel hands.
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« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2012, 11:25:26 AM »

Anyone have the paper or the percentages?  Am curious to see how the R1b clades broke down.
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Richard Rocca
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« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2012, 11:33:46 AM »

Anyone have the paper or the percentages?  Am curious to see how the R1b clades broke down.

I'll put something together as the results for R1b are only in number of derived samples and not in percentages.
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Mkk
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« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2012, 12:11:47 PM »

Truly tragic what happened to Germany after the war in this respect. R.I.P

See here under expulsions: http://www.exulanten.com/hell.html

I've been wondering when a paper on the pre-war genetic makeup of Poland and the parts of Germany given to Poland (that is Silesia, Pomerania, west Prussia, half of East Prussia, and East Brandenburg) would turn up. Thanks for posting.
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Maliclavelli
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« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2012, 01:26:37 PM »

as well as to show that the founder H5 clade (12-15 ky old) is mainly represented by individuals from southern Europe
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Maliclavelli


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« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2012, 01:30:54 PM »

There are also a few R-L51 (tested R-L23 but with DYS426=13). One is controversial because has DYS392=14 and DYS393=12 and probably is a true L23. Anyway they are all in Germany. None in the Slav countries.
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« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2012, 01:51:24 PM »

The R-L51 are 4 out of 349 samples from Mecklenburg and Bavaria = 1,14%. Very far from the Alto Adige percentage.
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Richard Rocca
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« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2012, 02:35:13 PM »

I extracted the numbers for R1b only. You can find them here:

http://www.u152.org/images/stories/Rebala_2012_Frequency.png

No real surprises:
- R1b is low in the Slavic countries and starts to pick up steam in the east German samples.
- As expected, U106 is the major playing in east Germany followed by R1a and distantly U152 and P312*.
- L21 did not figure prominently in any of the groups and peaks out at 3.8% in Mecklenburg.  
- Unfortunately for us, central and western Germany were not tested which is not surprising given the scope of the study.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2012, 02:52:30 PM by Richard Rocca » Logged

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Dubhthach
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« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2012, 03:46:31 PM »

I extracted the numbers for R1b only. You can find them here:

http://www.u152.org/images/stories/Rebala_2012_Frequency.png

No real surprises:
- R1b is low in the Slavic countries and starts to pick up steam in the east German samples.
- As expected, U106 is the major playing in east Germany followed by R1a and distantly U152 and P312*.
- L21 did not figure prominently in any of the groups and peaks out at 3.8% in Mecklenburg.  
- Unfortunately for us, central and western Germany were not tested which is not surprising given the scope of the study.

It's interesting how L21 is almost 2.5x as common in Mecklenburg (3.8%) as compared to Bavaria (1.4%). The other interesting stat is the U152 in Bavaria, at 10.1%, obviously ties in with the Alpine concentration of U152.
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alan trowel hands.
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« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2012, 04:12:02 PM »

I extracted the numbers for R1b only. You can find them here:

http://www.u152.org/images/stories/Rebala_2012_Frequency.png

No real surprises:
- R1b is low in the Slavic countries and starts to pick up steam in the east German samples.
- As expected, U106 is the major playing in east Germany followed by R1a and distantly U152 and P312*.
- L21 did not figure prominently in any of the groups and peaks out at 3.8% in Mecklenburg.  
- Unfortunately for us, central and western Germany were not tested which is not surprising given the scope of the study.

Thats about in line with what I imagine.  L21 does have 2 trends in general though a west-east cline and a north-south one, peaking in the NW and dimishing as you move south and east.  So this fits well.  So I am not surprised that where it exists in this eastern sample it is more northerly than many of the areas where it doesnt.  NE Germany and northern Poland may have been at the outer edges of its range.  This fills in more data points for the making of much better cline maps for R1b clades.  The outermost cline of L21 to the east would seem to run somewhere from the Baltic to north Italy.
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Richard Rocca
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« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2012, 04:36:20 PM »

I extracted the numbers for R1b only. You can find them here:

http://www.u152.org/images/stories/Rebala_2012_Frequency.png

No real surprises:
- R1b is low in the Slavic countries and starts to pick up steam in the east German samples.
- As expected, U106 is the major playing in east Germany followed by R1a and distantly U152 and P312*.
- L21 did not figure prominently in any of the groups and peaks out at 3.8% in Mecklenburg.  
- Unfortunately for us, central and western Germany were not tested which is not surprising given the scope of the study.

Thats about in line with what I imagine.  L21 does have 2 trends in general though a west-east cline and a north-south one, peaking in the NW and dimishing as you move south and east.  So this fits well.  So I am not surprised that where it exists in this eastern sample it is more northerly than many of the areas where it doesnt.  NE Germany and northern Poland may have been at the outer edges of its range.  This fills in more data points for the making of much better cline maps for R1b clades.  The outermost cline of L21 to the east would seem to run somewhere from the Baltic to north Italy.

I'm expecting L21 to have a good showing in the west when Larmuseau's Flemish study gets published.
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Mike Walsh
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« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2012, 05:39:55 PM »

- As expected, U106 is the major playing in east Germany followed by R1a and distantly U152 and P312*....
I see SRY2627 didn't show for the most part. It'd be interesting to see someday how much P312* in Central Europe is really P312* versus DF27.
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alan trowel hands.
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« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2012, 06:01:57 PM »

I extracted the numbers for R1b only. You can find them here:

http://www.u152.org/images/stories/Rebala_2012_Frequency.png

No real surprises:
- R1b is low in the Slavic countries and starts to pick up steam in the east German samples.
- As expected, U106 is the major playing in east Germany followed by R1a and distantly U152 and P312*.
- L21 did not figure prominently in any of the groups and peaks out at 3.8% in Mecklenburg.  
- Unfortunately for us, central and western Germany were not tested which is not surprising given the scope of the study.

Thats about in line with what I imagine.  L21 does have 2 trends in general though a west-east cline and a north-south one, peaking in the NW and dimishing as you move south and east.  So this fits well.  So I am not surprised that where it exists in this eastern sample it is more northerly than many of the areas where it doesnt.  NE Germany and northern Poland may have been at the outer edges of its range.  This fills in more data points for the making of much better cline maps for R1b clades.  The outermost cline of L21 to the east would seem to run somewhere from the Baltic to north Italy.

I'm expecting L21 to have a good showing in the west when Larmuseau's Flemish study gets published.

That would make a lot of sense to me because it never made sense that Britain is supposed to have been very L21 dominanted yet the main links of much of Britain in terms of beaker culture was with the Low Countries.   If there was not a lot of L21 in the Low Countries back in the beaker period that is hard to explain (assuming that U106 is post-beaker in Britain and the Low Countries) how Britain was so L21 dominated.  After all NW France was only one route into Britain in prehistory and the eastern half of Britain was more linked to the areas to the east from NE France to the Low Countries.  I am beginning to think that L21's northern distribution on the continent may have made it the main victim of U106 on the continent just as seems to be the case in Britain. We normally put the drop in L21 in eastern Britain down to the Germanics and U106 and assume that before that L21's dominance extended further east.  Exactly the same thing could have happened to L21 between NE France and the Low Countries which also saw Germanic intrusions and and language change in post-Roman times. Perhaps they once also were L21 dominated.  That would make a lot of sense to me  as I am getting an increasing sense that L21 was the ruler of the waves of northern Europe before U106.  It is hard to image the R1b landscape of northern Europe before U106 expanded (assuming the variance indicators of a late expansion from the east are correct) but I would suggest L21 is by far the best candidate to have been the dominant clade before U106 diminished it.        
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alan trowel hands.
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« Reply #15 on: September 12, 2012, 06:03:45 PM »

- As expected, U106 is the major playing in east Germany followed by R1a and distantly U152 and P312*....
I see SRY2627 didn't show for the most part. It'd be interesting to see someday how much P312* in Central Europe is really P312* versus DF27.

I totally agree Mike.  That is one of the first questions that popped into my head.  There is a lot of P312* in some of these places and it would be very interesting to know if it is DF27 or true P312*.  If it is mainly the latter then that will mean a lot of head scratching. 
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Richard Rocca
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« Reply #16 on: September 12, 2012, 07:45:54 PM »

- As expected, U106 is the major playing in east Germany followed by R1a and distantly U152 and P312*....
I see SRY2627 didn't show for the most part. It'd be interesting to see someday how much P312* in Central Europe is really P312* versus DF27.

I totally agree Mike.  That is one of the first questions that popped into my head.  There is a lot of P312* in some of these places and it would be very interesting to know if it is DF27 or true P312*.  If it is mainly the latter then that will mean a lot of head scratching. 

My hunch has always been that roughly half will indeed be DF27 and the rest will be oddball SNPs like we see further north with L238 and DF19.
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Maliclavelli
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« Reply #17 on: September 12, 2012, 11:20:16 PM »

My hunch has always been that roughly half will indeed be DF27 and the rest will be oddball SNPs like we see further north with L238 and DF19.
Also this presupposes probably an expansion from South and not from East.
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« Reply #18 on: September 13, 2012, 01:16:36 PM »

Thank you for posting this Richard. Dienekes had posted an entry in his blog with full YDNA coverage.

Some interesting things.

1. R1b is about ~50% of the male pop. in both eastern and northern Germany of various branches. U152 and P312* being stronger in Central Europe, and U106 in the northern areas.

2. R1b's peak in Poland ~18% is the area traditionally challenged as German territory and has had heavy German immigration. Otherwise it is pretty static at close to ~10% in west and east of Poland with L23+ being about the same everywhere (minimal) - implying to me, that any 'mass migration' of R1b from the east of Europe to the west was not recent -relative to R1a1 and I2a2 and probably never happened.

3.E-V13 and G2a3b are quite substantial in Germany, likely at bare minimum as being part of LBK Neolithic from the Balkans and I suspect has some overlap with any copper age immigration from that same direction. The sharp cutoff of I2a2-Dinaric and R1a in Germany from the regions directly east (Slovakia and Poland), implies that more substantial immigration came much later than the Neolithic and was 'stone walled' by the presence of local tribes (mix of R1b, I1, I2b1, E-V13, G2a3b and older R1a)

4. Not sure if there is any other useful information but I agree with Maliclavelli that R1b was probably spread from Impressed Ware Mediterraneans from the south, or south-east.

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Maliclavelli
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« Reply #19 on: September 13, 2012, 01:57:18 PM »

Not sure if there is any other useful information but I agree with Maliclavelli that R1b was probably spread from Impressed Ware Mediterraneans from the south, or south-east.

Many thanks.
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« Reply #20 on: September 13, 2012, 02:37:41 PM »

.. Not sure if there is any other useful information but I agree with Maliclavelli that R1b was probably spread from Impressed Ware Mediterraneans from the south, or south-east.

I understand that the Impressed Ware Neolithic advance was from SW Asia into Europe from the southeast. The earliest sites, I think, were about 6000 BC (8K ybp) in far SE Europe. It then moved through the Italian Peninsula reached Iberia and S France by 4500 BC (6.5K ybp.)

Why do you think Impressed Ware folks spread R1b?  and what forms or R1b were in the initial spread? Do you mean M343? or M269xL23, or L23xL11 or L11 itself?
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« Reply #21 on: September 13, 2012, 03:25:13 PM »

.. Not sure if there is any other useful information but I agree with Maliclavelli that R1b was probably spread from Impressed Ware Mediterraneans from the south, or south-east.

I understand that the Impressed Ware Neolithic advance was from SW Asia into Europe from the southeast. The earliest sites, I think, were about 6000 BC (8K ybp) in far SE Europe. It then moved through the Italian Peninsula reached Iberia and S France by 4500 BC (6.5K ybp.)

Why do you think Impressed Ware folks spread R1b?  and what forms or R1b were in the initial spread? Do you mean M343? or M269xL23, or L23xL11 or L11 itself?

I'm suspecting the spread was from the northern Levant into both Europe and deeper into West Asia (Iran). Alternatively, I wonder if there is any connection of R1b to early animal domestication and basic farming from Northern Iran and its early spread.

In either case we have an origin of R1b very close to the northern Middle-East, in particular ancient Lebanon, which then travels down the coast into Africa (Impressed Ware). There is also M73 and M269 that go their separate ways into Western Asia, while the similar M269+ and L23+ move into the Balkans. From Italy it spreads into Spain and France and loops along the Atlantic coastline and deeper into Central Europe. This is probably the transition of L51+ ->downstream as it happened really quickly with the growth of the farming population.

In any event, I suspect there must have been very disparate farming groups all with similar technology. This would explain the discontinuity of haplogroups and R1b in the west.
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acekon
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« Reply #22 on: September 13, 2012, 03:29:21 PM »

Of the the 7 regions tested, you would have a 67% percent chance to fall in R1a/R1b.  

Kaszuby-Kociewie-Kurpie-Lusatia-Slovakia-Bavaria (N 1156)

67.21%  belong to R-M173[R1]
44.46%  belong to R-M17[R1a]
22.49%  belonging to R-M269[R1b]

22.83% belong to R-M429[IJ]

4.41% belong to[E]
2.42% belong to [G]
2.20% belong to [N]
0.34% belong to[Q]
0.34% belong to[T]
0.08% belong to[H]
0.08% belong  to[C]  



« Last Edit: September 13, 2012, 03:32:11 PM by acekon » Logged

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« Reply #23 on: September 13, 2012, 03:33:00 PM »

Of the the 7 regions tested, you would have a 67% percent chance to fall in R1a/R1b.  

Kaszuby-Kociewie-Kurpie-Lusatia-Slovakia-Bavaria (N 1156)

67.21%  belong to R-M173[R1]
44.46%  belong to R-M17[R1a]
22.49%  belonging to R-M269[R1b]

22.83% belong to R-M429[IJ]

4.41% belong to[E]
2.42% belong to [G]
2.20% belong to [N]
0.34% belong to[Q]
0.34% belong to[T]
0.08% belong to[H]
0.08% belong  to[C]  


Keep in mind the J results are pretty insignificant and unrelated to the substantial I results. I wouldn't really group these together.
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Maliclavelli
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« Reply #24 on: September 13, 2012, 03:46:09 PM »

I understand that the Impressed Ware Neolithic advance was from SW Asia into Europe from the southeast. The earliest sites, I think, were about 6000 BC (8K ybp) in far SE Europe. It then moved through the Italian Peninsula reached Iberia and S France by 4500 BC (6.5K ybp.)

Why do you think Impressed Ware folks spread R1b?  and what forms or R1b were in the initial spread? Do you mean M343? or M269xL23, or L23xL11 or L11 itself?

I understand that you (and many others) aren’t able to stomach my theories, but

R1b1* YCAII=18-22 and 18-23 is Western European (both only in Italy: and why the administrators of the Italian FTDNA Project don’t deepen an R1b1* with also 19-23?)

R1b1a2* is overwhelmingly Italian (the Italian cluster with YCAII=17-23) etc. Now I have also the proof that Filandro is a pure Italian and that the Brazilian Rodrigues who matches him is a NPE of a Filandro emigrated there

R-L23 (also mine) is the closest to all the subclades and East European and Middle Eastern L23 are above all L277+ and L584+ (also the Balkan cluster is L405+ and Z2105+: see Arberesh Ciulla) then not the ancestors of the subclades.

That L51 was born in Italy a few doubts, and so on…

Some hypothesis also on U106*, seen the last results of Cesaroni and Zeni like Z156- (probably Z381+ I think).

In Italy when someone doesn’t stomach something takes a liqueur.


« Last Edit: September 13, 2012, 03:53:12 PM by Maliclavelli » Logged

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