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Author Topic: About Z2103/Z2105 and L150, L584, L277 etc.  (Read 5264 times)
Maliclavelli
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« Reply #25 on: September 05, 2012, 07:13:16 AM »

It looks like a  portion of L584- can fall into the following groups 391 10 or 11 and 464D 17/18/19. What do you think?

12_24_14_11_11-14_12 X DYS464-14_15_16_17
12_24_14_11_11-14_12 X DYS464-14_15_16_18
12_24_14_11_11-14_12 X DYS464-14_15_16_19

12_24_14_10_11-14_12 XDYS464-14_15_16_17
12_24_14_10_11-14_12 XDYS464-14_15_16_18
12_24_14_10_11-14_12 XDYS464-14_15_16_19)

These clusters are very uncommon in the R1b projects L584 and Western branches.
I also suspect that U98VT[1180 Czech sample] would fall into one of these clusters as well ,

86CDC-Bashkir1
FEPAF-Lak/Osset
HFQK3- Kyrgystan
RTMAY- Kazakhstan
#204505- Pakistan
N49273 -Gujarit, India
195191-Ghosh- India

I have always thought, and written too, that DYS391 is one of those markers that let me speak about the “mutations around the modal”, because it seems that its values, in the R1b haplogroup (but also elsewhere), turn above all around the values 10 and 11. Rarely there is a mutations for the tangent, and it goes from 11 to 12 (and in some haplotype also 13 or more) or from 10 to 9. Because we cannot know how many times these mutations have happened, we don’t know (in this case but also in others) the number of the mutations. Then I’d exclude this markers, even though it seems to me that 10 is the most ancient value within the most ancient haplotypes of R-L23.
As to DYS464, if it is presupposed that the modal of R-L23 was 14-15-16-18, you can see that these haplotypes have had only one mutation on DYS464d or have remained unchanged. But my haplotype (14-14-16-17) would presuppose a mutation of DYS464d from 18 to 17 and then DYS464b from 15 to 14. But also in this case we don’t know (except we reconstruct the haplotype values step by step) how many mutations have happened.
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Maliclavelli


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vineviz
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« Reply #26 on: September 05, 2012, 08:08:26 AM »

Then it seems that L277+ may go from the Isles to India, i.e. all the Indo-European world, whereas L584+ is restricted to Middle East. Also this shall be understood.
Indeed, we see R-L277 in most places that R-Z2105 is seen but the frequency is not constant and the same is true for R-L584.

In extreme NW Europe, for instance, fewer than 10% of R-Z2105 men seem to be R-L277 whereas in SW Asia it is more than 40%.
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Maliclavelli
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« Reply #27 on: September 05, 2012, 08:20:47 AM »

Indeed, we see R-L277 in most places that R-Z2105 is seen but the frequency is not constant and the same is true for R-L584.

In extreme NW Europe, for instance, fewer than 10% of R-Z2105 men seem to be R-L277 whereas in SW Asia it is more than 40%.

Of course by the “Adriano’s spreadsheet” (if one can see it) we already have a picture. If in Middle East 40% are L277+, probably more are L584+, then L277- and L584- are very few, whereas in Italy it seems that very few are L277+ (I know only Manno), none is L584+, then the most part are L277- and L584-. I.e. or L2103/L2105+ or, probably, also some L2103/L2105- or negative for one of them.
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Maliclavelli


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acekon
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« Reply #28 on: September 05, 2012, 12:49:42 PM »

It looks like a  portion of L584- can fall into the following groups 391 10 or 11 and 464D 17/18/19. What do you think?

12_24_14_11_11-14_12 X DYS464-14_15_16_17
12_24_14_11_11-14_12 X DYS464-14_15_16_18
12_24_14_11_11-14_12 X DYS464-14_15_16_19

12_24_14_10_11-14_12 XDYS464-14_15_16_17
12_24_14_10_11-14_12 XDYS464-14_15_16_18
12_24_14_10_11-14_12 XDYS464-14_15_16_19)

These clusters are very uncommon in the R1b projects L584 and Western branches.
I also suspect that U98VT[1180 Czech sample] would fall into one of these clusters as well ,

86CDC-Bashkir1
FEPAF-Lak/Osset
HFQK3- Kyrgystan
RTMAY- Kazakhstan
#204505- Pakistan
N49273 -Gujarit, India
195191-Ghosh- India

I have always thought, and written too, that DYS391 is one of those markers that let me speak about the “mutations around the modal”, because it seems that its values, in the R1b haplogroup (but also elsewhere), turn above all around the values 10 and 11. Rarely there is a mutations for the tangent, and it goes from 11 to 12 (and in some haplotype also 13 or more) or from 10 to 9. Because we cannot know how many times these mutations have happened, we don’t know (in this case but also in others) the number of the mutations. Then I’d exclude this markers, even though it seems to me that 10 is the most ancient value within the most ancient haplotypes of R-L23.
As to DYS464, if it is presupposed that the modal of R-L23 was 14-15-16-18, you can see that these haplotypes have had only one mutation on DYS464d or have remained unchanged. But my haplotype (14-14-16-17) would presuppose a mutation of DYS464d from 18 to 17 and then DYS464b from 15 to 14. But also in this case we don’t know (except we reconstruct the haplotype values step by step) how many mutations have happened.


Sorenson: @b you would be 1 step from model

14-14-16-17  . 00409-0.409%

 possible model:

DYS 464:14-15-16-17   .01867- 1.867%

DYS 464:14_15_16_X
DYS 393_12  .09661- 9.661%

compared to 25.837% for the following 4 DYS 464 combined:

12_14_15_15-2.145%
15_15_16_17-6.8%
15_15_17_17-10.577%
15_15_17_18-3.54%
15_16_16_17-2.782%

DYS 393_13-71.084%

Here are some candidates:

12_24_14_11_11-14_12_12  DYS 464: 14/15/16/X

U98VT-Vanek sample from monastery, around 1180+/- Czech
HFQK3-Kyrgystan
RTMAY-Kazakstan
2SFDH-"Painter" Germany
DB9H7-"Katranov"Ukraine
Fepaf-Lak-Osset
JPKEV-"Probasco"Poland
PNFBK-"Bartos"Czech
N9690-"Swietlikowski"Poland
14386-"Probatski"Silesia
159888-"Kubatiev"Digor Osset
164226-Armenian Project
186395-Lugel,Dagestan Lak
152880-Luguev,Dagestan Lak
118282-"Skoda"Croatia/Czech
202985-"Melik"Armenia
99230-"Breske" Poland
N37658-"Romitti"Lombardy,Italy
155359-"Glowiak"Poland
27AF9-"Sloboda"Czech/Hungarian

12_24_14_10_11-14_12_12  DYS 464: 14/15/16/X

Handw-"Booher"Germany
99SC2-Silesia-Germany/Poland
Bashkir1-Bashkir-Perm?
204505-"Khan"Pakistan[388-13]
N49273-"Baroda",Gujarit, India
217513-"Mercer"England
EKXJ7-"Necesfor"Ukraine
PM9VH-"Oziemblowski"Poland
RBNQT-"Gaber"["Gerber"Carani,Romania, German colony?]
164198-Armenia project



South West Asia projects: Shows signs of paucity, in comparison to the above data, with the exception of Armenian project.

1]Assyrian Heritage DNA Project ,[11 members]- 0%

2]L584+ Alevi, Ashkenazi "Group C" & Sephardim[23 members]-0%

3]The Jewish R1b Project -R1b1a2a1* (R-L150*) Group A[48 members]-0%
3]The Jewish R1b Project -R1b1a2a1* (R-L150*) Group B[25 members]-0%

4]Armenian Project[85 members]-3/85

South West Asian Paucity:
 3/192+/-,because of project members overlap, say perhaps around 3 out of 100. Or under 3% for these specific clusters.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2012, 12:58:03 PM by acekon » Logged

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Maliclavelli
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« Reply #29 on: September 05, 2012, 05:10:04 PM »

Acekon, I thank for your analysis, but I think you should consider the whole data, and not only the first, which I have said it is where I have more mutations, but above all “around the modal”, as I think having demonstrated a few posts above by comparing my data with those of the Anonymous Brazilian, of the Hui etc.
First of all this comparing with my closest relative (15th century MRCA) demonstrates that my DYS392=12 is a recent mutation from 13, that my DYS447=24 is a recent mutation from 25 etc.
I think you should compare my data with those, for instance, of these two Armenians and one Englishman and with the modal of all the R-L11 subclades. Probably you would see that my data (apart my DYS636=9 instead of the modal 10) are the closest ones:

H1614 Antonio del Badia (1449-?) Castelfiorentino (Firenze Italy) R1b1a2
12 24 15 10 11-14 12 12 12 13 12 29 16 9-10 11 11 24 15 19 29 14-14-16-17 10 11 19-23 16 15 19 17 36-37 12 12 11 9 15-16 8 10 10 8 10 11 12 23-24 16 10 12 12 16 8 12 22 21 13 12 11 13 11 11 12 12 32 15 9 16 11 25 26 19 12 11 13 12 10 9 12 11 10 11 11 30 12 14 24 14 10 9 20 15 19 14 23 18 12 15 24 12 23 18 10 14 18 9 11 11
H1621 Antonio del Badia (1449-?) Castelfiorentino (Firenze Italy) R1b1a2
12 24 15 10 11-14 12 12 12 13 13 29 16 9-10 11 11 25 15 19 28 14-14-16-17 10 11 19-23 16     
               12 12                                                                                          13          13                                                                                                                             11 30 12 14 24 14 10                     
                          23                      11

95535   England R1b1a2a1
12 25 14 11 12-14 12 12 14 13 13 29 16 9-10 11 11 25 16 20 29 15-15-15-18 11 12 19-23 16 15 16 17 36-37 12 12 11 9 15-17 8 10 10 8 10 11 12 22-23 15 10 12 12 15 8 12 22 20 13 12 11 13 10 11 12 12 34 15 9 16 12 23 26 19 12 11 11 12 10 9 13 12 10 11 11 29 14 13 24 13 10 10 21 15 18 13 24 19 12 16 25 12 23 18 10 14 17 9 11 11
149198 Atabek III Hasan-Jalalian, early 15th C., Karabagh Armenia R1b1a2a
12 25 14 11 12-15 12 12 12 13 13 29 16 9-10 11 11 25 15 20 28 15-15-16-18 11 11 23-23 16 16 17 17 35-35 12 12 14 9 15-16 8 12 10 8 11 11 12 23-23 15 10 12 12 16 8 12 24 20 13 12 11 13 11 11 12 12 37 15 9 15 12 25 26 19 12 11 14 12 10 9 12 12 10 11 10 30 12 13 24 13 10 10 19 15 18 13 24 18 12 15 24 12 23 18 10 14 17 9 11 11
152976   Armenia R1b1a2a
12 25 14 11 12-15 12 12 12 13 13 29 16 9-9 11 11 25 15 20 28 15-15-16-18 11 11 23-23 16 16 18 17 35-35 12 12 13 9 15-16 8 12 10 8 11 11 12 23-23 15 10 12 12 15 8 12 24 20 13 12 11 13 11 11 12 12 37 15 9 15 12 25 26 19 12 11 14 12 10 9 12 12 10 11 10 30 13 13 25 13 10 10 19 15 18 13 24 17 12 15 24 12 23 18 10 14 17 9 11 11 .
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Maliclavelli


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acekon
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« Reply #30 on: September 07, 2012, 01:37:35 PM »

195191-Ghosh- India   is L277+

I had a chance to inquire about the surname Ghosh. It is perhaps from the Bengal region[Kolkata] East India.

If 2105/277 are common between Switzerland and East India, that is quite a distance 7647 Kilometers!


Here is a map of the shortest distance[by air LOL] arcing between the two points.

http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/distanceresult.html?p1=87&p2=54

It would be nice to have the Pakistan and Gujarat samples also tested.
 
« Last Edit: September 07, 2012, 01:39:34 PM by acekon » Logged

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Maliclavelli
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« Reply #31 on: September 07, 2012, 02:47:18 PM »

I think you should inquire about his origin. Another Indian in the R1b1 FTDNA Project I  demonstrated that he belongs to a High Indo-European caste, then his origin is closer to Europe (I have written about this in this forum).
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Maliclavelli


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Maliclavelli
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« Reply #32 on: September 08, 2012, 10:57:28 AM »

The first Z2105- has appeared on “ht 35 FTDNA Project” [226720], but, for irony, he has all the markers values of the R1b1a2*-s, is put amongst them, but his SNPs say that he is L150+ and Z2105-. Something is wrong.
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Maliclavelli


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Richard Rocca
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« Reply #33 on: September 08, 2012, 11:42:11 AM »

Not sure if you noticed the first Z2105+ in the Italy project:

Kit no. N23635, Luigi Lorenzini, Senigallia, Italy (on the Adriatic coast)
« Last Edit: September 08, 2012, 11:43:14 AM by Richard Rocca » Logged

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acekon
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« Reply #34 on: September 08, 2012, 12:52:41 PM »

The first Z2105- has appeared on “ht 35 FTDNA Project” [226720], but, for irony, he has all the markers values of the R1b1a2*-s, is put amongst them, but his SNPs say that he is L150+ and Z2105-. Something is wrong.

226720-Dov Ber Fabrikant b.c. 1810 Vetka, Belarus/R1b1a2a1/R-L150 /L150+, Z2105-

Does the same apply for kit #86425-Kazakhstan, L150+,Z2105-  ?
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Maliclavelli
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« Reply #35 on: September 08, 2012, 01:05:00 PM »

Not sure if you noticed the first Z2105+ in the Italy project:

Kit no. N23635, Luigi Lorenzini, Senigallia, Italy (on the Adriatic coast)
Richard, I have written Z2105-. What is important for L150+ is to be Z2105- and not +, because who is - is L150*, then the ancestor. But of course about these cases (of the Jew Fabricant and of the other mentioned by Acekon) something doesn't fit.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2012, 01:07:43 PM by Maliclavelli » Logged

Maliclavelli


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« Reply #36 on: September 08, 2012, 01:11:08 PM »

More Z2105+ results:

84950   Peter or Pietro Ciulla, b.1880s, Sicily (Arberesh) (also Z2103+)
64409   James Smith, b. 1815, St. George, Grenada (also Z2103+)
134236   Leonard Willing m 1607 Plymstock, Devon, England (also Z2103+)
87265   No Info
« Last Edit: September 08, 2012, 01:13:31 PM by Richard Rocca » Logged

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Maliclavelli
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« Reply #37 on: September 08, 2012, 01:15:29 PM »

More Z2105+ results:

84950   Peter or Pietro Ciulla, b.1880s, Sicily (Arberesh)
64409   James Smith, b. 1815, St. George, Grenada
134236   Leonard Willing m 1607 Plymstock, Devon, England
87265   No Info
Yes, we know from "ht 35 FTDNA Project", but the chase is for -. Very strange these Jews L150+ Z2105-, whereas Fabricant belongs to the Jewish haplotype of R1b1a2*, where they have almost the same values and descend from a very recent introgressed person. Very strange. They are R1b1a2* and not R1b1a2a1/L150+.
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Maliclavelli


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acekon
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« Reply #38 on: September 08, 2012, 03:47:51 PM »

Perhaps a mistake was made in entering the data for Fabrikant. Here are different members of various groups to compare, including Seymour and Fabrikant.

1]R1b1a2: L23- L51- L11-
 226720-Dov Ber Fabrikant  1810 Vetka, Belarus/R1b1a2a1/L150+, Z2105-


2] R1b1a2a: L23+ L51- L11-
 108347    John Seymour (Seymer) B. about 1540/R1b1a2a  /L150-, Z2105+

3]R1b1a2a: L23+ L51- L11-
 45475 Louis Silver    R1b1a2a1 L150+, L23+, L51-, L584+


4]R1b1a2a:R-L23 L23+, L49+, L584+
164200 Armenia    R1b1a2a,L584+

5]R1b1a2a1c: L23+ L277+
67609 Goldstein,  Ukraine    R1b1a2

6]R1b1a2a1c: L23+ L277+
195191 Ghosh, India[Bengal?]

7]R1b1a2
204505 Yaar Ali Khan,Pakistan

8]Bashkir

9]Kyrgyzstan

      
Z2105-/L150+ "Fabrikant"
1]12 24 14 10 11-14 11 12 12 13 14 29 17 9-10 11 11 25 15 19 30  15-15-16-16

Z2105+/L150- "Seymour"
2]12 24 14 11 11-15 12 12 12 13 13 29 17 9-9  11 11  24  16 19 30  14-15-17-17

L584+"Silver"
3]12 24 14 11 11-14 12 12 12 14 13 30 16 9-9  11 11 25  15 19 28  15-15-16-17
 
L584+ Armenian
4]12 24 13 11 11-14 12 12 12 14 13 31 15 9-10 11 11 25 15 19 29  15-15-16-18

L277+"Goldstein"
5]12 24 14 10 11-15 12 12 12 13 14 28 15 9-9 11 11 25 14 19 29  15-15-16-17

L277+"Ghosh"
6]12 24 14 11 11-15 12 12 13 13 14 29 16 9-10 11 11 25 15 20 28  14-15-16-18

R1b1a2"Khan"
7]12 24 14 10 11-14 12 13 12 13 13 29 15 9-10 11 11 26 15 19 31  14-15-16-18

Bashkir
8]12 24 14 10 11-14  _   _  12 13 13 30 16  _   _  _   _  _ 15 19   

Kyrgyzstan
9]12 24 14 11 11-14 12 12 13 13 13 31 16 9-10 11 11 24 15 19 32  14-15-16-17

Silesia[z2105?][L277?]
  12 24 14 10  11-14 12 12 11 14 13 31 16 9-10 11 11 25 15 19 33  14-15-16-19
« Last Edit: September 08, 2012, 05:51:05 PM by acekon » Logged

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vineviz
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« Reply #39 on: September 08, 2012, 09:33:43 PM »

The first Z2105- has appeared on “ht 35 FTDNA Project” [226720], but, for irony, he has all the markers values of the R1b1a2*-s, is put amongst them, but his SNPs say that he is L150+ and Z2105-. Something is wrong.

Yes:  the L150 marker is not dependable.
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« Reply #40 on: November 11, 2012, 07:54:35 PM »

I see you listed FEPAF here.  Are they L584 positive?  I am awaiting my Z2105 test to see if I should test for L584.  I match FEPAF on ysearch at a genetic distance of 4.  So, I'm curious to see how we're related, and if I have any other close matches.  I've also matched with Czech, Slovak and Hungarians lineage. 

It looks like a  portion of L584- can fall into the following groups 391 10 or 11 and 464D 17/18/19. What do you think?

12_24_14_11_11-14_12 X DYS464-14_15_16_17
12_24_14_11_11-14_12 X DYS464-14_15_16_18
12_24_14_11_11-14_12 X DYS464-14_15_16_19

12_24_14_10_11-14_12 XDYS464-14_15_16_17
12_24_14_10_11-14_12 XDYS464-14_15_16_18
12_24_14_10_11-14_12 XDYS464-14_15_16_19)

These clusters are very uncommon in the R1b projects L584 and Western branches.
I also suspect that U98VT[1180 Czech sample] would fall into one of these clusters as well ,

86CDC-Bashkir1
FEPAF-Lak/Osset
HFQK3- Kyrgystan
RTMAY- Kazakhstan
#204505- Pakistan
N49273 -Gujarit, India
195191-Ghosh- India

I have always thought, and written too, that DYS391 is one of those markers that let me speak about the “mutations around the modal”, because it seems that its values, in the R1b haplogroup (but also elsewhere), turn above all around the values 10 and 11. Rarely there is a mutations for the tangent, and it goes from 11 to 12 (and in some haplotype also 13 or more) or from 10 to 9. Because we cannot know how many times these mutations have happened, we don’t know (in this case but also in others) the number of the mutations. Then I’d exclude this markers, even though it seems to me that 10 is the most ancient value within the most ancient haplotypes of R-L23.
As to DYS464, if it is presupposed that the modal of R-L23 was 14-15-16-18, you can see that these haplotypes have had only one mutation on DYS464d or have remained unchanged. But my haplotype (14-14-16-17) would presuppose a mutation of DYS464d from 18 to 17 and then DYS464b from 15 to 14. But also in this case we don’t know (except we reconstruct the haplotype values step by step) how many mutations have happened.

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« Reply #41 on: November 11, 2012, 10:34:21 PM »

I just found I matched with a Romitti - 5 steps out of 67.  I also match FEPAF.  Any idea what SNPs they tested for?

It looks like a  portion of L584- can fall into the following groups 391 10 or 11 and 464D 17/18/19. What do you think?

12_24_14_11_11-14_12 X DYS464-14_15_16_17
12_24_14_11_11-14_12 X DYS464-14_15_16_18
12_24_14_11_11-14_12 X DYS464-14_15_16_19

12_24_14_10_11-14_12 XDYS464-14_15_16_17
12_24_14_10_11-14_12 XDYS464-14_15_16_18
12_24_14_10_11-14_12 XDYS464-14_15_16_19)

These clusters are very uncommon in the R1b projects L584 and Western branches.
I also suspect that U98VT[1180 Czech sample] would fall into one of these clusters as well ,

86CDC-Bashkir1
FEPAF-Lak/Osset
HFQK3- Kyrgystan
RTMAY- Kazakhstan
#204505- Pakistan
N49273 -Gujarit, India
195191-Ghosh- India

I have always thought, and written too, that DYS391 is one of those markers that let me speak about the “mutations around the modal”, because it seems that its values, in the R1b haplogroup (but also elsewhere), turn above all around the values 10 and 11. Rarely there is a mutations for the tangent, and it goes from 11 to 12 (and in some haplotype also 13 or more) or from 10 to 9. Because we cannot know how many times these mutations have happened, we don’t know (in this case but also in others) the number of the mutations. Then I’d exclude this markers, even though it seems to me that 10 is the most ancient value within the most ancient haplotypes of R-L23.
As to DYS464, if it is presupposed that the modal of R-L23 was 14-15-16-18, you can see that these haplotypes have had only one mutation on DYS464d or have remained unchanged. But my haplotype (14-14-16-17) would presuppose a mutation of DYS464d from 18 to 17 and then DYS464b from 15 to 14. But also in this case we don’t know (except we reconstruct the haplotype values step by step) how many mutations have happened.


Sorenson: @b you would be 1 step from model

14-14-16-17  . 00409-0.409%

 possible model:

DYS 464:14-15-16-17   .01867- 1.867%

DYS 464:14_15_16_X
DYS 393_12  .09661- 9.661%

compared to 25.837% for the following 4 DYS 464 combined:

12_14_15_15-2.145%
15_15_16_17-6.8%
15_15_17_17-10.577%
15_15_17_18-3.54%
15_16_16_17-2.782%

DYS 393_13-71.084%

Here are some candidates:

12_24_14_11_11-14_12_12  DYS 464: 14/15/16/X

U98VT-Vanek sample from monastery, around 1180+/- Czech
HFQK3-Kyrgystan
RTMAY-Kazakstan
2SFDH-"Painter" Germany
DB9H7-"Katranov"Ukraine
Fepaf-Lak-Osset
JPKEV-"Probasco"Poland
PNFBK-"Bartos"Czech
N9690-"Swietlikowski"Poland
14386-"Probatski"Silesia
159888-"Kubatiev"Digor Osset
164226-Armenian Project
186395-Lugel,Dagestan Lak
152880-Luguev,Dagestan Lak
118282-"Skoda"Croatia/Czech
202985-"Melik"Armenia
99230-"Breske" Poland
N37658-"Romitti"Lombardy,Italy
155359-"Glowiak"Poland
27AF9-"Sloboda"Czech/Hungarian

12_24_14_10_11-14_12_12  DYS 464: 14/15/16/X

Handw-"Booher"Germany
99SC2-Silesia-Germany/Poland
Bashkir1-Bashkir-Perm?
204505-"Khan"Pakistan[388-13]
N49273-"Baroda",Gujarit, India
217513-"Mercer"England
EKXJ7-"Necesfor"Ukraine
PM9VH-"Oziemblowski"Poland
RBNQT-"Gaber"["Gerber"Carani,Romania, German colony?]
164198-Armenia project



South West Asia projects: Shows signs of paucity, in comparison to the above data, with the exception of Armenian project.

1]Assyrian Heritage DNA Project ,[11 members]- 0%

2]L584+ Alevi, Ashkenazi "Group C" & Sephardim[23 members]-0%

3]The Jewish R1b Project -R1b1a2a1* (R-L150*) Group A[48 members]-0%
3]The Jewish R1b Project -R1b1a2a1* (R-L150*) Group B[25 members]-0%

4]Armenian Project[85 members]-3/85

South West Asian Paucity:
 3/192+/-,because of project members overlap, say perhaps around 3 out of 100. Or under 3% for these specific clusters.
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Wayne Kauffman
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« Reply #42 on: November 12, 2012, 06:29:23 AM »


The Swiss Burkholder sample (L277+) is in the analysis phase for Geno 2.0 results. Within 3(?) weeks there will be a pool of SNPs to position in the L23 region.   
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saje
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« Reply #43 on: November 12, 2012, 07:27:50 AM »

I've tested family tree's ydna 67.  Do you suggest testing Geno 2 or Family Tree's Deep Clade?  I'm looking for links to my father's side because it is unknown beyond him.  Which test is best for me and the community? 


The Swiss Burkholder sample (L277+) is in the analysis phase for Geno 2.0 results. Within 3(?) weeks there will be a pool of SNPs to position in the L23 region.   

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Maliclavelli
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« Reply #44 on: November 12, 2012, 09:33:36 AM »

I've tested family tree's ydna 67.  Do you suggest testing Geno 2 or Family Tree's Deep Clade?  I'm looking for links to my father's side because it is unknown beyond him.  Which test is best for me and the community? 

Saje, me and a famous English researcher are finding the ancestor of an American woman adopted, but this hasn’t been reached by her mtDNA (in your case the Y) but by 23andMe and its Relative Finder, hoping that amongst the people tested there is some close relatives of you. She found a second cousin and probably we have reached our purpose.
About your Y certainly Geno 2.0 will be able to say something interesting, but not to find your father, except that he or a very close relative of his has done the same test.
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Maliclavelli


YDNA: R-S12460


MtDNA: K1a1b1e

Wayne Kauffman
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« Reply #45 on: November 12, 2012, 07:12:04 PM »

Geno 2.0 has replaced the deepClade test.   The best result for the general research community would be the Geno 2.0 test.  For yourself  Geno might provide a higher resolution ancestral point of origin but probably nothing that would be genealogically relevant for your immediate paternal line searches.  You could look in that geographic area for similar surnames and over time get them tested to see if you can establish a link.


I've tested family tree's ydna 67.  Do you suggest testing Geno 2 or Family Tree's Deep Clade?  I'm looking for links to my father's side because it is unknown beyond him.  Which test is best for me and the community? 


The Swiss Burkholder sample (L277+) is in the analysis phase for Geno 2.0 results. Within 3(?) weeks there will be a pool of SNPs to position in the L23 region.   

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saje
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« Reply #46 on: November 13, 2012, 01:00:46 PM »

Thanks.  I may take the test.  I will not be able to compare my surname as there was an adoption.  But I may be able to compare surnames whose Y line I match (I test 67 markers at FamilyTreeDNA) to others and also those that point to a certain geographic area as you mentioned.  Then I can trace where my father was born, and see if there are matching surnames from that area. 

Seems like Geno 2.0 will also be able to tell nationality; which may also help. 

Thanks to all for your valued knowledge and information. 

Geno 2.0 has replaced the deepClade test.   The best result for the general research community would be the Geno 2.0 test.  For yourself  Geno might provide a higher resolution ancestral point of origin but probably nothing that would be genealogically relevant for your immediate paternal line searches.  You could look in that geographic area for similar surnames and over time get them tested to see if you can establish a link.


I've tested family tree's ydna 67.  Do you suggest testing Geno 2 or Family Tree's Deep Clade?  I'm looking for links to my father's side because it is unknown beyond him.  Which test is best for me and the community? 


The Swiss Burkholder sample (L277+) is in the analysis phase for Geno 2.0 results. Within 3(?) weeks there will be a pool of SNPs to position in the L23 region.   

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acekon
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« Reply #47 on: November 18, 2012, 10:43:40 AM »

Thanks.  I may take the test.  I will not be able to compare my surname as there was an adoption.  But I may be able to compare surnames whose Y line I match (I test 67 markers at FamilyTreeDNA) to others and also those that point to a certain geographic area as you mentioned.  Then I can trace where my father was born, and see if there are matching surnames from that area. 

Seems like Geno 2.0 will also be able to tell nationality; which may also help. 

Thanks to all for your valued knowledge and information. 

Geno 2.0 has replaced the deepClade test.   The best result for the general research community would be the Geno 2.0 test.  For yourself  Geno might provide a higher resolution ancestral point of origin but probably nothing that would be genealogically relevant for your immediate paternal line searches.  You could look in that geographic area for similar surnames and over time get them tested to see if you can establish a link.


I've tested family tree's ydna 67.  Do you suggest testing Geno 2 or Family Tree's Deep Clade?  I'm looking for links to my father's side because it is unknown beyond him.  Which test is best for me and the community? 


The Swiss Burkholder sample (L277+) is in the analysis phase for Geno 2.0 results. Within 3(?) weeks there will be a pool of SNPs to position in the L23 region.   


Saje  do you plan on testing for  L584 and L277? Or are you going to wait for Gen2.0 results to be released?What are your results in Eurogenes Euro calculator or Dodecad K12b.
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YDNA: R-Z2105* Śląsk-Polska
MtDNA: U5b2a2*Königsberg-Ostpreussen
saje
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« Reply #48 on: November 18, 2012, 04:53:34 PM »

acekon, 

I do plan to test L588 and L277.  Does Geno 2.0 test for these SNPs?  If not, I will test individually at FTDNA. 

I hear rumors that FTDNA will offer Geno 2.0 early 2013, so I may wait until then as they already have my sample - that is if they do test for SNPs downstream of Z2105 (that is if I am positive; will know the results within the next week or so).

Can you tell me more information on Eurogenes Euro calculator and Dodecad K12b?  I am unaware of their service.  Can I share my 67 y-line dna results with them and compare to others in their database?  Will they be able to better pinpoint my european ancestry?

Thanks,

Saje

Thanks.  I may take the test.  I will not be able to compare my surname as there was an adoption.  But I may be able to compare surnames whose Y line I match (I test 67 markers at FamilyTreeDNA) to others and also those that point to a certain geographic area as you mentioned.  Then I can trace where my father was born, and see if there are matching surnames from that area. 

Seems like Geno 2.0 will also be able to tell nationality; which may also help. 

Thanks to all for your valued knowledge and information. 

Geno 2.0 has replaced the deepClade test.   The best result for the general research community would be the Geno 2.0 test.  For yourself  Geno might provide a higher resolution ancestral point of origin but probably nothing that would be genealogically relevant for your immediate paternal line searches.  You could look in that geographic area for similar surnames and over time get them tested to see if you can establish a link.


I've tested family tree's ydna 67.  Do you suggest testing Geno 2 or Family Tree's Deep Clade?  I'm looking for links to my father's side because it is unknown beyond him.  Which test is best for me and the community? 


The Swiss Burkholder sample (L277+) is in the analysis phase for Geno 2.0 results. Within 3(?) weeks there will be a pool of SNPs to position in the L23 region.   


Saje  do you plan on testing for  L584 and L277? Or are you going to wait for Gen2.0 results to be released?What are your results in Eurogenes Euro calculator or Dodecad K12b.
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acekon
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« Reply #49 on: November 18, 2012, 06:13:35 PM »

acekon,  

I do plan to test L588 and L277.  Does Geno 2.0 test for these SNPs?  If not, I will test individually at FTDNA.  

I hear rumors that FTDNA will offer Geno 2.0 early 2013, so I may wait until then as they already have my sample - that is if they do test for SNPs downstream of Z2105 (that is if I am positive; will know the results within the next week or so).

Can you tell me more information on Eurogenes Euro calculator and Dodecad K12b?  I am unaware of their service.  Can I share my 67 y-line dna results with them and compare to others in their database?  Will they be able to better pinpoint my european ancestry?

Thanks,

Saje

Thanks.  I may take the test.  I will not be able to compare my surname as there was an adoption.  But I may be able to compare surnames whose Y line I match (I test 67 markers at FamilyTreeDNA) to others and also those that point to a certain geographic area as you mentioned.  Then I can trace where my father was born, and see if there are matching surnames from that area.  

Seems like Geno 2.0 will also be able to tell nationality; which may also help.  

Thanks to all for your valued knowledge and information.  

Geno 2.0 has replaced the deepClade test.   The best result for the general research community would be the Geno 2.0 test.  For yourself  Geno might provide a higher resolution ancestral point of origin but probably nothing that would be genealogically relevant for your immediate paternal line searches.  You could look in that geographic area for similar surnames and over time get them tested to see if you can establish a link.


I've tested family tree's ydna 67.  Do you suggest testing Geno 2 or Family Tree's Deep Clade?  I'm looking for links to my father's side because it is unknown beyond him.  Which test is best for me and the community?  


The Swiss Burkholder sample (L277+) is in the analysis phase for Geno 2.0 results. Within 3(?) weeks there will be a pool of SNPs to position in the L23 region.  


Saje  do you plan on testing for  L584 and L277? Or are you going to wait for Gen2.0 results to be released?What are your results in Eurogenes Euro calculator or Dodecad K12b.


If you have 23andme or Familytreedna results you can upload them to the various Gedmatch calculators; and they will show  groups you are related to. You can compare the results, and use the Oracle function.
Some  examples using my results

http://ww2.gedmatch.com:8006/autosomal/ap_mix1_gen.php

 Dodecad K12b-distance
 
1]Hungarians (Behar)    7.82
2]German (Dodecad)    8.78
3]Polish (Dodecad)    10.94
4]Swedish (Dodecad)    11.03
5]Norwegian (Dodecad)    13.37

#Primary Population (source)    Secondary Population (source)@Distance
1]52.8%   Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad)+47.2%   Russian_B (Behar)@1.37
2]67.3% German (Dodecad)+32.7%Russian_B (Behar)@1.49
3]65.7%German (Dodecad)+ 34.3%Russian (Dodecad)@1.74

Eurogene Eutest

#   Population (source)   Distance
1]PL 2.78
2]UA 4
3]West_Russian 5.92
4]Ukrainian-Russian 6.68
5]Belorussian 7.24

#Primary Population (source)    Secondary Population (source)@Distance
1]95.9%PL+4.1%Sardinian@1.4
2]92.6%PL+7.4%ES@1.43
3]91.1%UA+8.9%French_Basque@   1.45

MLDP

#   Population (source)@Distance
1]Ukrainian-Center (derived)3.13
2]Ukrainian-East (derived)3.54
3]Polish_V (derived)   3.66
4]Belarusian_V (derived)   3.72
5]Ukrainian (derived) 3.82

#Primary Population (source)    Secondary Population (source)@Distance
1]96.2%Polish_V (derived) +    3.8%Abhkasian (derived)   @2.17
2]96.3%Polish_V (derived)+    3.7%Georgian_Imereti (derived)@2.19
3]96.1%Polish_V (derived)+    3.9%Georgian_Laz (derived)@2.24
4]55.2%   North-East-European (ancestral)+44.8%Kosovar (derived)@   2.25
5]95.2%   Polish_V (derived)+    4.8%Adygei (derived)@2.25

Those are my[Eastern Europe] results using the different calculators which are pretty much in line with other analysis[Dr McDonald- although he did find some Indian, as did one of the Dodecad runs, Kannada? and Gedrosia?; on a side note perhaps Balkans Z2105 made it as far as, Pakistan, India and China you never know].

  Gen 2.0 will change things, so you might want to wait see what happens in the next few weeks.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2012, 06:24:17 PM by acekon » Logged

YDNA: R-Z2105* Śląsk-Polska
MtDNA: U5b2a2*Königsberg-Ostpreussen
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