R1b-L21: the DF49* paragroup under DF13

[Mikewww]

New DF49+ M222- this weekend: 192660-Merril (37 marker profile). See the results sheet. Will send him a message inviting him to join the DF-49 project.

Cheers Peter

No idea how I managed to miss this fellow !!

Looking quickly he seems a good candidate for a cluster Mike calls 49-23-2224. This is a DF23 group so it would be interesting to see a result for that SNP also

This group looks like it could be quite a productive line of investigation.

192660-Merril appears to have a good match to 137235-Caldwell and he (Caldwell) is DF23+, so Merril might learn more from a DF23 test.

I'm not sure about the others in Mike's 49-23-2224 cluster. I'm not even sure I understand that cluster. Apparently I'm missing something.

I have a large number of people thrown into various "49-23" varieties but the lines between M222+ and M222- and the lines between DF23+ and DF23- are unknown. I've got folks that are great M222+ matches but are M222-. Many of these varieties are quite speculative.

A lot more testing of M222, DF23 and DF49 needs to occur.  I'm not sure if you shouldn't start with M222 first if you have haven't already tested and then work back up to DF23 and DF49 as needed.

[Mark Jost]

MikeW could you look at this for me please? Thx.
MJost

Hi have a guy named Henderson f160798 who I have been working with and I was wondering if he should test for DF49? (There are more in the Henderson project as they have a CDY 36,36 and 385B 15, 460-10 and more.)

fN26081   Caldwell   R1b-L21   49-23-2224
f123987   Caldwell   zzL21suspect   49-23-2224
f79710   Carll   R1b-L21   49-23-2224
f160798   Henderson   R1b-L21>DF13   zzDF13unassigned
f102517   Henderson   R1b-L21   zzL21unassigned
f77763   Henderson    R1b-L21   zzL21unassigned
f82717   Taylor   R1b-L21   49-23-2224

Thanks,

MJost

[Jdean]

Hi have a guy named Henderson f160798 who I have been working with and I was wondering if he should test for DF49? (There are more in the Henderson project as they have a CDY 36,36 and 385B 15, 460-10 and more.)

fN26081   Caldwell   R1b-L21   49-23-2224
f123987   Caldwell   zzL21suspect   49-23-2224
f79710   Carll   R1b-L21   49-23-2224
f160798   Henderson   R1b-L21>DF13   zzDF13unassigned
f102517   Henderson   R1b-L21   zzL21unassigned
f77763   Henderson    R1b-L21   zzL21unassigned
f82717   Taylor   R1b-L21   49-23-2224

Thanks,

MJost

I'd hang fire on this one at the moment !!

I'm currently trying to recruit folks on the visible edge of this group, I'm expecting it to be pretty big but I think it advisable to grow it from the centre !!

A slight problem is despite a lovely crop of off modal values it's quit hard to pick a selection that doesn’t happily find L21 negative folk and of course if you use to many you may as well  not bother :)

[Mark Jost]

I'd hang fire on this one at the moment !!

I'm currently trying to recruit folks on the visible edge of this group, I'm expecting it to be pretty big but I think it advisable to grow it from the centre !!

A slight problem is despite a lovely crop of off modal values it's quit hard to pick a selection that doesn’t happily find L21 negative folk and of course if you use to many you may as well  not bother :)

Ok, I will have him 'Hang Tight' awaiting for a  better defined range. I havent been following to closely so that's why I was inquiring.

Thank you,

MJost

[Jdean]

I'd hang fire on this one at the moment !!

I'm currently trying to recruit folks on the visible edge of this group, I'm expecting it to be pretty big but I think it advisable to grow it from the centre !!

A slight problem is despite a lovely crop of off modal values it's quit hard to pick a selection that doesn’t happily find L21 negative folk and of course if you use to many you may as well  not bother :)

When I first looked at this group I thought I could use key vales that would work with a 37 loci kit, shortly after I put that idea to bed :)

Ok, I will have him 'Hang Tight' awaiting for a  better defined range. I havent been following to closely so that's why I was inquiring.

Thank you,

MJost

When I first looked at this group I thought I could use key vales that would work with a 37 loci kit, shortly after I put that idea to bed :)

[Jdean]

At last a new DF49 plus result !!

Allison kit no. B3231, no DF23 result so far but he's not an obvious candidate for that SNP

[rms2]

At last a new DF49 plus result !!

Allison kit no. B3231, no DF23 result so far but he's not an obvious candidate for that SNP

Congratulations!

I was surprised when I saw his result this morning. I don't know why, but I am surprised every time someone gets a positive result for something beyond DF13 these days.

[Jdean]

At last a new DF49 plus result !!

Allison kit no. B3231, no DF23 result so far but he's not an obvious candidate for that SNP

Congratulations!

I was surprised when I saw his result this morning. I don't know why, but I am surprised every time someone gets a positive result for something beyond DF13 these days.

Me too !!

[Jdean]

We had a new DF49+ result turn up the other day, Parry (ap Harry) MDKA 1729 Liverpool, DF23 is on order  but I think he's mostly going to be DF49*.

He matches the DF49, M222- modal of having no matches very well, this fellow only has 8 @ 12 and has tested up to 67, at least one of which is L21 neg :)


Merry Xmas All

[Jdean]

A new DF49+ result came in last night, Officer (kit no. 230866), ancestry is NE Scotland, DF23 is now on order. more waiting, FTDNA are really dragging there heels at the mo !!

This fellow has only got one match to speak of who's only tested up to P312, I'll drop him a line once we know the DF23 status.

[rms2]

A new DF49+ result came in last night, Officer (kit no. 230866), ancestry is NE Scotland, DF23 is now on order. more waiting, FTDNA are really dragging there heels at the mo !!

This fellow has only got one match to speak of who's only tested up to P312, I'll drop him a line once we know the DF23 status.

I saw that result just a little while ago. Congratulations on another new DF49+!

I guess processing all those Geno 2.0 transfers and all the str upgrades is slowing SNP results down. We're still waiting for a number of DF41 test results, too.

(But I'm waiting for my 111-marker upgrade, too, so I hope they hurry up - but accurately - with that.)

[Peter M]

For everybody who's wondering what's happening in DF49: the new SNP Z2961 has been found to be between DF23 and M222 and therefore is highly recommended for all DF23+ and M222-.

As of today, there are 2 positive and 4 negative tests of Z2961 for DF23+/M222- people.

As Z2961 is upstream of M222, there's no reason for M222+ people to test Z2961 (all tests of Z2961 by M222+ people are positive).

The following SNPs are downstream of DF23 as well and can be ordered with FT-DNA. Please note that the exact position of these SNPs is currently unknown. To date they've only been tested by M222+ people and all these tests were positive. Most of these SNPs are therefore most likely close to M222.

• Z2955
• Z2962
• Z2963
• Z2964
• Z2970
• Z2972
• Z2977
• Z2984
• Z2988

These SNPs might be an opportunity for M222- people who know to be Z2961+. It currently looks like being better to test Z2961 first.

[Peter M]

In order to have a reasonable current list of results, we've set up a DF49 results web page (including DF23, Z2961 and some M222). The page is on a site about R-Z18/L257 which is under the "alien" R-U106. The results table contains both tested profiles and profiles we recommend to test one of the SNPs. The intention is to update it at least every two weeks and when there are new developments, such as Z2961, more often.
 
Please note the page is produced by the FT-DNA DF49 and Subgroups Project; we have no intention of getting in the way of the FT-DNA M222 project and we therefore only list those M222+ who have also tested DF23+ explicitly. To help people decide whether to test any of the new (Geno2) SNPs downstream of M222, we've added all negatives there as well for the time being.
 
See www.L257.org; select Y-DNA Profiles DF49+ in the menu on the left. Any serious/helpful comments are welcome !!

[Dubhthach]

It would be interesting to see verify if N26284 (Leister) is Z2961+, he has a M222- result but clusters quite close to the M222+ folks (on Alex Williamson tree anyways)

-Paul
(DF41+)

[Peter M]

I guess it would be interesting as well to see all continental DF23+ (4xFrance, 1x Italy) test Z2261) that would possibly give a next, although vague due to the low numbers, indication of the route of the DF49 people to the British Isles.

[Jdean]

It would be interesting to see verify if N26284 (Leister) is Z2961+, he has a M222- result but clusters quite close to the M222+ folks (on Alex Williamson tree anyways)

-Paul
(DF41+)

That's assuming he really is M222-

Robert Brooks mentioned him the other day on the Yahoo site and was pretty emphatic which I took to mean this has been double checked, I emailed this fellow a couple of months ago enquiring about this but never got a reply.

My problem is he's a very close match to a bunch of people who have tested positive for M222 who all carry the off modal value for M222 of 22 @ 481 and the off modal value for L21 of 12 @ 460.

If he is DF23* as Robert insists then I guess he's a very good candidate for Z2961.

[Peter M]

It would be interesting to see verify if N26284 (Leister) is Z2961+, he has a M222- result but clusters quite close to the M222+ folks (on Alex Williamson tree anyways)

-Paul
(DF41+)

That's assuming he really is M222-

Robert Brooks mentioned him the other day on the Yahoo site and was pretty emphatic which I took to mean this has been double checked, I emailed this fellow a couple of months ago enquiring about this but never got a reply.

My problem is he's a very close match to a bunch of people who have tested positive for M222 who all carry the off modal value for M222 of 22 @ 481 and the off modal value for L21 of 12 @ 460.

If he is DF23* as Robert insists then I guess he's a very good candidate for Z2961.

Below N26284-Leister in the DF49 Result Sheet there's a group of four who appear very close to M222 (even closer than N26284-Leister) and are considered M222+ in the projects they are member of:

• 149182-Byrne??
• 149181-Byrne??
• N8220-Haslett
• N112614-??

These people have not tested M222 but have ordered DF23 and were found positive. Anybody any idea about the logic thas was applied to choose for DF23 to test instead of M222 ? Am I missing something here ??

[Jdean]

It would be interesting to see verify if N26284 (Leister) is Z2961+, he has a M222- result but clusters quite close to the M222+ folks (on Alex Williamson tree anyways)

-Paul
(DF41+)

That's assuming he really is M222-

Robert Brooks mentioned him the other day on the Yahoo site and was pretty emphatic which I took to mean this has been double checked, I emailed this fellow a couple of months ago enquiring about this but never got a reply.

My problem is he's a very close match to a bunch of people who have tested positive for M222 who all carry the off modal value for M222 of 22 @ 481 and the off modal value for L21 of 12 @ 460.

If he is DF23* as Robert insists then I guess he's a very good candidate for Z2961.

Below N26284-Leister in the DF49 Result Sheet there's a group of four who appear very close to M222 (even closer than N26284-Leister) and are considered M222+ in the projects they are member of:

• 149182-Byrne??
• 149181-Byrne??
• N8220-Haslett
• N112614-??

These people have not tested M222 but have ordered DF23 and were found positive. Anybody any idea about the logic thas was applied to choose for DF23 to test instead of M222 ? Am I missing something here ??

DF23's got more of a ring to it ?

[Dubhthach]

I don't see any reason why they wouldn't test M222+ maybe it should be suggested to them.

-Paul
(DF41+)