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Author Topic: A New Match  (Read 1041 times)
rms2
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« on: August 23, 2012, 11:17:15 PM »

My dad got his 12-marker y-dna test results, and, naturally, he matches me exactly (I match him, I should say). :-)

I ordered a 12-marker test for him back in late June or early July when the "Sizzling Summer Sale" was on at FTDNA. Glad I did. Now I have my dad's sample in there available for further testing, like the Family Finder and mtDNA, which I definitely plan to do. That's what I ordered the test for, really: to get his sample into FTDNA's lab. My dad will be 82 in just about three weeks (may God grant him many more blessed years).

Funny thing: FTDNA won't predict my dad's haplogroup despite his numerous matches to L21+ guys and R1b1a2 guys. I remember when they pulled my initial "R1b1" prediction when I got my first 12 markers, and had me predicted merely as "R1" for a brief while. Weird.

Anyway, I think it's cool having my old dad in there. He's Ysearch 8HXQH, if anyone cares besides me. :-)
« Last Edit: August 23, 2012, 11:19:12 PM by rms2 » Logged

rms2
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« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2012, 11:57:15 AM »

Since my dad has no y haplogroup prediction (weird), his Haplotree page says he is entitled to the free Backbone SNP test from FTDNA. I filled out the request form for the test, but I pointed out to them that my dad is my dad and matches me exactly, so they could just give him a prediction to match my SNP-tested haplogroup and save themselves the time and expense of the Backbone test. I'll see what they say. If they won't give him a prediction, I'll insist on the free Backbone SNP test.
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gtc
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« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2012, 11:04:16 PM »

If they won't give him a prediction, I'll insist on the free Backbone SNP test.

I thought the backbone test was done automatically in any case where FTDNA couldn't predict hg.
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Y-DNA: R1b-Z12* (R1b1a2a1a1a3b2b1a1a1) GGG-GF Ireland (roots reportedly Anglo-Norman)
mtDNA: I3b (FMS) Maternal lines Irish
rms2
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« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2012, 12:34:18 AM »

If they won't give him a prediction, I'll insist on the free Backbone SNP test.

I thought the backbone test was done automatically in any case where FTDNA couldn't predict hg.

They have a link on the Haplotree page that you have to click on to request it. Apparently it's not automatic.
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Jdean
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« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2012, 05:32:26 AM »

If they won't give him a prediction, I'll insist on the free Backbone SNP test.

I thought the backbone test was done automatically in any case where FTDNA couldn't predict hg.

They have a link on the Haplotree page that you have to click on to request it. Apparently it's not automatic.

I asked for backbone tests to be done on a family group in our surname project three years ago, at the time you had to write FTDNA an email.

I was a little disappointed in it though to say the least. All they did was test for M269, I could have saved them the bother.
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Y-DNA R-DF49*
MtDNA J1c2e
Kit No. 117897
Ysearch 3BMC9

OConnor
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« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2012, 07:04:44 AM »

I had my Father's second cousin tested to see how things matched up.(36/37)

I don't want to waste any of his dna samples. It's good to have them already in the system if you want to confirm things, like an snp.
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R1b1a2a1a1b4


R-DF13**(L21>DF13)
M42+, M45+, M526+, M74+, M89+, M9+, M94+, P108+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, P311+, P312+, P316+, M173+, M269+, M343+, P312+, L21+, DF13+, M207+, P25+, L11+, L138+, L141+, L15+, L150+, L16+, L23+, L51+, L52+, M168+, M173+, M207+, M213+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M343+, P69+, P9.1+, P97+, PK1+, SRY10831.1+, L21+, L226-, M37-, M222-, L96-, L193-, L144-, P66-, SRY2627-, M222-, DF49-, L371-, DF41-, L513-, L555-, L1335-, L1406-, Z251-, L526-, L130-, L144-, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195-, L96-, DF21-, Z255-, DF23-, DF1-, Z253-, M37-, M65-, M73-, M18-, M126-, M153-, M160-, P66-

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rms2
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« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2012, 11:18:03 AM »

I had my Father's second cousin tested to see how things matched up.(36/37)

I don't want to waste any of his dna samples. It's good to have them already in the system if you want to confirm things, like an snp.

I agree. I don't want them wasting my dad's sample on a Backbone test when I could just order DF13 for him.

That's why I wrote and told them they could save themselves time and money if they would just take note of the facts that 1) he's my dad, 2) he matches me (and my eldest son and my dad's second cousin) exactly, and 3) I have already been pretty extensively SNP tested.

I hope they'll listen and just at least give him the red "R1b1a2" prediction.

I knew what his y-dna result would look like. I just wanted to get him in under the sale price so that later I could order mtDNA and Family Finder tests for him. I'm really curious about his mtDNA.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2012, 11:18:16 AM by rms2 » Logged

gtc
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« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2012, 08:39:07 PM »

If they won't give him a prediction, I'll insist on the free Backbone SNP test.

I thought the backbone test was done automatically in any case where FTDNA couldn't predict hg.

They have a link on the Haplotree page that you have to click on to request it. Apparently it's not automatic.

Hmmm. I recalled reading it was automatic, but on second reading seems that applies to the Genographic project:

http://www.familytreedna.com/faq/answers/default.aspx?faqid=8#515
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Y-DNA: R1b-Z12* (R1b1a2a1a1a3b2b1a1a1) GGG-GF Ireland (roots reportedly Anglo-Norman)
mtDNA: I3b (FMS) Maternal lines Irish
rms2
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« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2012, 08:45:50 PM »

Aha!

They must have read the message I sent them. My dad now has a red R1b1a2 prediction.

Good. I'm satisfied with that. I know he is DF13+.
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stoneman
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« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2012, 03:25:44 PM »

With respect I think you should have paid for the Geno 2.0 test.Then you could write to your closest matches and ask them to do the same. That way you may be able to find out exactly how you match up in SNPs.If you dont then you arent related nomatter how close you match in haplotype.
You didnt need to waste money on a y test for your father.Every man and his father  match in haplotype and SNP.



Aha!

They must have read the message I sent them. My dad now has a red R1b1a2 prediction.

Good. I'm satisfied with that. I know he is DF13+.
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df.reynolds
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« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2012, 05:18:49 PM »

..Every man and his father  match in haplotype and SNP.
There are many, many known cases where father and son do not have matching haplotypes. While usually there is only a GD of 1 or 2, I remember hearing of one case where there was a GD of 4.

Father and son also don't necessarily have an exact SNP match either. My son and I are L625+. I have established (by testing cousins) that my great-great-grandfather was L625-. Now trying to figure out whether the mutation occurred with my great-grandfather, grandfather, father, or me. But of those four people, one of us had an SNP that did not match their father.

Mutations are random and can happen at any time.

--david
« Last Edit: August 28, 2012, 05:19:50 PM by df.reynolds » Logged
Jdean
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« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2012, 05:54:05 PM »

..Every man and his father  match in haplotype and SNP.
There are many, many known cases where father and son do not have matching haplotypes. While usually there is only a GD of 1 or 2, I remember hearing of one case where there was a GD of 4.

Father and son also don't necessarily have an exact SNP match either. My son and I are L625+. I have established (by testing cousins) that my great-great-grandfather was L625-. Now trying to figure out whether the mutation occurred with my great-grandfather, grandfather, father, or me. But of those four people, one of us had an SNP that did not match their father.

Mutations are random and can happen at any time.

--david

Indeed and if this didn't happen we'd have to find something else to occupy our time with :)
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Y-DNA R-DF49*
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Kit No. 117897
Ysearch 3BMC9

razyn
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« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2012, 06:31:02 PM »

But at the "backbone" level rms2 and Stoneman were talking about (R1b1a2 etc.), every man and his biological father do still match, in the major-branch SNPs that happened sometime BCE.  L625 is kind of an exception to the SNP rule of thumb; but the father-son mismatches we normally can detect are at the STR level, by one tick on one marker; we have no clue what SNP might be involved, but it ain't M269.  Maybe "haplogroup and terminal SNP testable at FTDNA" would have been a more precise way to express the father-son match that's reasonable to assume.

If rms2 had gotten back a result that his dad was in Hg G, or something, that would be different.  But, in fact, they "matched."
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R1b Z196*
rms2
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« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2012, 08:42:20 PM »

I only ordered the 12-marker test because of the "Sizzling Summer Sale" to get my dad's dna sample into FTDNA's system inexpensively so that I could purchase upgrades and other tests later. I was sure we would match exactly because I already have an exact 37-marker match with a second cousin once removed (my dad's second cousin).
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stoneman
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« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2012, 07:35:40 AM »

You should check out the McMahon dna project as some of your genetic cousins are there. When I was in the project I saw a few with 11 at 385b which is unusual. There may be an SNP at this marker for your group.
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