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Mark Jost
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« Reply #50 on: August 11, 2012, 03:39:05 PM »

The L69 has an issue then as one can not be correct. He has had FtDNA check it out?

MJost
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148326
Pos: Z245 L459 L21 DF13**
Neg: DF23 L513 L96 L144 Z255 Z253 DF21 DF41 (Z254 P66 P314.2 M37 M222  L563 L526 L226 L195 L193 L192.1 L159.2 L130 DF63 DF5 DF49)
WTYNeg: L555 L371 (L9/L10 L370 L302/L319.1 L554 L564 L577 P69 L626 L627 L643 L679)
df.reynolds
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« Reply #51 on: August 11, 2012, 05:50:45 PM »

The L69 has an issue then as one can not be correct. He has had FtDNA check it out?

MJost
L69 is highly recurrent, with well over two dozen state changes present in reported 23andME data. I believe there are at least three state changes in R1b alone. Thomas Krahn does not include on the Draft Tree, ISOGG does not include on its trees.

In this particular case, the two data points represent two different state changes (mutation events).

Regards,
david
« Last Edit: August 11, 2012, 05:51:21 PM by df.reynolds » Logged
seferhabahir
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« Reply #52 on: August 12, 2012, 11:36:42 AM »

I created an L583+ category because, even though you two are a very close match, at least there are two different surnames involved. I would do that for L555, too, if we could ever get a non-Irwin to test positive for it and join the R-L21 Plus Project.

I hope you can get your third L583+ guy to join soon.

He did this morning and is now listed in the L583+ category. I asked him to fill in his paternal surname (which is Levin) so it will show up. This surname is further evidence that L583+ is a reliable marker for L21 Ashkenazi Levites. The three of us are the only documented Levites in the 1111EE cluster, as far as I know.
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Y-DNA: R-L21 (Z251+ L583+)

mtDNA: J1c7a

rms2
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« Reply #53 on: August 12, 2012, 11:47:51 AM »

I created an L583+ category because, even though you two are a very close match, at least there are two different surnames involved. I would do that for L555, too, if we could ever get a non-Irwin to test positive for it and join the R-L21 Plus Project.

I hope you can get your third L583+ guy to join soon.

He did this morning and is now listed in the L583+ category. I asked him to fill in his paternal surname (which is Levin) so it will show up. This surname is further evidence that L583+ is a reliable marker for L21 Ashkenazi Levites. The three of us are the only documented Levites in the 1111EE cluster, as far as I know.

That makes L583 more significant than its current numbers might otherwise indicate.

I think I did the right thing in creating a category for it.
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seferhabahir
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« Reply #54 on: August 12, 2012, 01:49:52 PM »

That makes L583 more significant than its current numbers might otherwise indicate.

I think I did the right thing in creating a category for it.

I do too, so thank you. Can't help but think that the three of us are just a small remnant of a larger and more diverse haplogroup that existed in the past, but for historical reasons is now greatly reduced. Also, can't help wonder what the thinking would be on L21/DF13 if there were 300 people that tested positive for L583 instead of 3. I guess we might assume a larger number in the same way that some multiply the number of tested French by 100 to get more realistic scenarios.
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Y-DNA: R-L21 (Z251+ L583+)

mtDNA: J1c7a

Mike Walsh
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« Reply #55 on: August 13, 2012, 01:07:12 AM »

.... Also, can't help wonder what the thinking would be on L21/DF13 if there were 300 people that tested positive for L583 instead of 3. I guess we might assume a larger number in the same way that some multiply the number of tested French by 100 to get more realistic scenarios.

I encourage you to recruit possible matches, get them to test deeper and confirm L583 status, then keeping pushing the envelope on L583's known STR signature until you get a larger group validated.  You are right, size matters, but sometimes it takes a lot of digging. If you get the snowball going, sometimes it keeps rolling on its own, getting bigger on the way.
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seferhabahir
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« Reply #56 on: August 13, 2012, 02:22:58 AM »

.... Also, can't help wonder what the thinking would be on L21/DF13 if there were 300 people that tested positive for L583 instead of 3. I guess we might assume a larger number in the same way that some multiply the number of tested French by 100 to get more realistic scenarios.

I encourage you to recruit possible matches, get them to test deeper and confirm L583 status, then keeping pushing the envelope on L583's known STR signature until you get a larger group validated.  You are right, size matters, but sometimes it takes a lot of digging. If you get the snowball going, sometimes it keeps rolling on its own, getting bigger on the way.


Sure, I'll keep trying as best I can. You're more optimistic than I am. It's a pretty wet noodle to push, and new matches are hard to come by. Based on the 67 marker test results I've seen so far, I think the signature for L583 is awfully narrow. I have two 63/67 matches that came in L583- and the other 67 marker candidates I know about do not match what I consider to be the right signature for this SNP. Getting older test kits to upgrade to 67 markers may not be feasible unless I can get them to test L583 first since it is much less expensive. But it's like pulling teeth to even get an email response from any of my non-67 marker matches.
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Y-DNA: R-L21 (Z251+ L583+)

mtDNA: J1c7a

seferhabahir
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« Reply #57 on: August 17, 2012, 07:55:50 PM »


I encourage you to recruit possible matches, get them to test deeper and confirm L583 status, then keeping pushing the envelope on L583's known STR signature until you get a larger group validated.  You are right, size matters, but sometimes it takes a lot of digging. If you get the snowball going, sometimes it keeps rolling on its own, getting bigger on the way.


Sure, I'll keep trying as best I can. You're more optimistic than I am. It's a pretty wet noodle to push, and new matches are hard to come by. Based on the 67 marker test results I've seen so far, I think the signature for L583 is awfully narrow. I have two 63/67 matches that came in L583- and the other 67 marker candidates I know about do not match what I consider to be the right signature for this SNP. Getting older test kits to upgrade to 67 markers may not be feasible unless I can get them to test L583 first since it is much less expensive. But it's like pulling teeth to even get an email response from any of my non-67 marker matches.


OK,

I just sent in an application to FTDNA to start up an R-DF13 1111EE Project. I'll try to get as many of the 1111EE people as I can to join it, and use it as a venue for getting them to consider upgrading their STR markers and/or to test for L583. Probably I will break it into three subgroups (A. L583?, B. L583+, and C. L583-). There are three known to be in Group B, and four known to be in Group C. The challenge will be to get people to join that would go into Group A. Maybe a cool logo similar to those little CMH or WAMH banners FTDNA hand out would help. I doubt it, but you never know.
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Y-DNA: R-L21 (Z251+ L583+)

mtDNA: J1c7a

Mark Jost
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« Reply #58 on: August 26, 2012, 02:21:21 AM »

I have pulled the DF13 XSubclades & XPredicted Subclades a short time ago and created a new Fluxus. I have layed out the best set of branches for what I call the Right main Branch which is the Scots 1030-A-Sc Cluster and some pre branches. Download and then Rotate the PDF image 90 degress for a better view or just print it out. Screen zoom allows better viewing. I have been working on the Left side view of the remaining DF13 xSubs.
 
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0By9Y3jb2fORNZkQtNFZoc051MXc/edit

Note there are two other section branches shown on page three and four which have the following varieties shown.

From node m479: 2223, 1214, 1130-A-1, 144-1399(missed removing these guys but this was interesting though), 2323, 2510, 141410.

From Node m331: 1212, 1424, 1609, 1222, 711, 1024, 45510, 2217-B and 101922.

The last PDF page show the entire main right branch as plotted.

I uses the 30 year generation when I calculated the years between mutations from MarkoH's newest rates.

CumRates%  RatePerEvent  #ofTransmissionsPerMutationAtMutation  Rate PerSTRMutation(BE)  PerMutatationAt25yrGen  PerMutatationAt30yrGen
0.172844  0.002580  388  5.8  145  174

MJost
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148326
Pos: Z245 L459 L21 DF13**
Neg: DF23 L513 L96 L144 Z255 Z253 DF21 DF41 (Z254 P66 P314.2 M37 M222  L563 L526 L226 L195 L193 L192.1 L159.2 L130 DF63 DF5 DF49)
WTYNeg: L555 L371 (L9/L10 L370 L302/L319.1 L554 L564 L577 P69 L626 L627 L643 L679)
Mike Walsh
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« Reply #59 on: August 28, 2012, 02:29:46 PM »

There is a pretty firm variety that I had labeled 9926. They appear to be DF13* although I don't think they've tested for DF41 yet. I see RMS has recruited a few of them to join the L21 project.


f186947   Edgcombe   R-L21/DF13*   9926   England, South West, Devonshire, Edgcumbe
f231691   Edgecombe   R-L21   9926   England, South West, Devonshire, Edgcumbe
f202149   Edgcombe   zzL21predicted   9926   England, South West, Devonshire, Edgcumbe
f192153   Edgcombe   zzL21predicted   9926   England, South West, Cornwall, Launcells
f186676   Edgecomb   R-L21   9926   England, South West, Devonshire, Plymouth
f106895   Edgecombe   R-L21   9926   England, South West, Devonshire, Abbot
f219514   Edgcombe   R-L21   9926   England
f218064   Edgcombe   R-L21   9926   England
f227857   Shazell   R-L21   9926   England, South West, Devonshire, Milton Abbott
f232852   Shazell   R-L21   9926   England, South West, Devonshire, Milton Abbott
f192364   Edgecomb   zzL21predicted   9926   England, South West, Devonshire, Edgcumbe
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Mike Walsh
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« Reply #60 on: August 28, 2012, 10:24:36 PM »

DF13* people, like L21* people, are special.

I've updated the R1b-L21_Haplotypes spreadsheet. I've done a little work on the DF13* varieties.

Since it is so old, I moved DF41 up as a requirement for DF13* status as one of DF13's Big Six subclades. All DF13* people, in this version of the spreadsheet, are DF13+ L513- DF21- DF49- Z253- Z255- DF41-.

In honor of the aggressive DF13* testers, I'm updating their variety labels. Any variety label that begins with "13" has at least one person that is confirmed DF13+ L513- DF21- DF49- Z253- Z255- DF41-. The assignment of variety labels are speculative since they are STR based, so I still advise testing to your terminal SNP, but I just wanted to make it clearer where the DF13* fall.

All L21 confirmed and suspected haplotypes, including 111 STR haplotypes:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/17907527/R1b-L21_Haplotypes.zip

Haplogroup Tree Descendancy Chart: Graphic tree chart of the SNP levels/positioning in the Clades table:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/17907527/R1b-L21_Descendancy_Tree.jpg
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secherbernard
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« Reply #61 on: August 31, 2012, 08:45:57 AM »

I am going to test the six big DF13 subclades. I ordered L513 and DF21 for the beginning.
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YDNA: R-DF13+ L69+ DYS464X: cccc.3
mtDNA: U6a7a1
mtDNA of my father: U5a2c
YDNA of my maternal uncle: I1*
Ysearch and Mitosearch: UE9BU
Ysearch of my maternal uncle: CEC59

secherbernard
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« Reply #62 on: September 01, 2012, 12:20:23 PM »

Thanks to Mike to tell me that Pitts kit 217417 is in the 1420 cluster with me. He just joined the L21+ project. I exchanged email with his  daughter: Jane Williams Pitts. She just ordered for his father the following markers: DF13, L69 and DYS464X. I have also an interesting result for DYS464X with a micro-allele: cccc.3 It will be interesting to know if Pitts has the same results than me.

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YDNA: R-DF13+ L69+ DYS464X: cccc.3
mtDNA: U6a7a1
mtDNA of my father: U5a2c
YDNA of my maternal uncle: I1*
Ysearch and Mitosearch: UE9BU
Ysearch of my maternal uncle: CEC59

Mark Jost
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« Reply #63 on: September 03, 2012, 12:55:54 AM »

I made a list back around the first part on August of the DF13* xsubclades xPredicted subclades and ran a fluxus on those 618 haplotypes rooted with L21. I created three groups as they filled the screen, Left Right and bottom groups. The right group is mainly the very large Scots variety 1030-A-Sc.

This Right page has several varieties shown: From node m479: 2223, 1214, 1130-A-1, 144-1399(missed removing these guys but this was interesting though), 2323, 2510, 141410.

From Node m331: varieties 1212, 1424, 1609, 1222, 711, 1024, 45510, 2217-B and 101922.




The left PDF contains most of the 1511's. The bottom section was split into A, B and C pdf's.

'BottA' page has these varities 1424, 1014,1810, 1609, 1130-A-2, 2510, 9910, 2410, 1066A, 1310, 1523, 1221, 2113, 643, 14611

'BottB' contains these varities:  1415, 111311, 1528, 111314, 1111E, 45410, 1114, 1123, 49-1411, 1199, 25911, 9926, 1014-A, 49-1226, 2517, 1111
 
'BottC' has 9919(mostly), 1523, 1221, 13-526, 91612, 921, 1114, 1017, 1613, 9915, 1423

They are posted on Yahoo but here is a folder with the five PDFs in my Google documents storage

https://docs.google.com/folder/d/0By9Y3jb2fORNbExVSXJsWUMxVzA/edit


MJost
« Last Edit: September 03, 2012, 12:57:45 AM by Mark Jost » Logged

148326
Pos: Z245 L459 L21 DF13**
Neg: DF23 L513 L96 L144 Z255 Z253 DF21 DF41 (Z254 P66 P314.2 M37 M222  L563 L526 L226 L195 L193 L192.1 L159.2 L130 DF63 DF5 DF49)
WTYNeg: L555 L371 (L9/L10 L370 L302/L319.1 L554 L564 L577 P69 L626 L627 L643 L679)
seferhabahir
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« Reply #64 on: September 03, 2012, 07:26:23 PM »


I encourage you to recruit possible matches, get them to test deeper and confirm L583 status, then keeping pushing the envelope on L583's known STR signature until you get a larger group validated.  You are right, size matters, but sometimes it takes a lot of digging. If you get the snowball going, sometimes it keeps rolling on its own, getting bigger on the way.


Sure, I'll keep trying as best I can. You're more optimistic than I am. It's a pretty wet noodle to push, and new matches are hard to come by. Based on the 67 marker test results I've seen so far, I think the signature for L583 is awfully narrow. I have two 63/67 matches that came in L583- and the other 67 marker candidates I know about do not match what I consider to be the right signature for this SNP. Getting older test kits to upgrade to 67 markers may not be feasible unless I can get them to test L583 first since it is much less expensive. But it's like pulling teeth to even get an email response from any of my non-67 marker matches.


I just emailed known 1111EE cluster folks that have had a 67 marker test and have not yet tested for L583, and asked them to consider testing for it. We'll see what happens. One of the known 67 marker 1111EE people turned all their FTDNA contact information private so I decided to skip him. I actually think he did this soon after I contacted him in April about an L583 test. Gotta wonder why they even bother to sign the waiver and supply their email if this is their reaction to an honest inquiry (see the above comment about wet noodles).
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Y-DNA: R-L21 (Z251+ L583+)

mtDNA: J1c7a

rms2
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« Reply #65 on: September 03, 2012, 07:44:56 PM »


I encourage you to recruit possible matches, get them to test deeper and confirm L583 status, then keeping pushing the envelope on L583's known STR signature until you get a larger group validated.  You are right, size matters, but sometimes it takes a lot of digging. If you get the snowball going, sometimes it keeps rolling on its own, getting bigger on the way.


Sure, I'll keep trying as best I can. You're more optimistic than I am. It's a pretty wet noodle to push, and new matches are hard to come by. Based on the 67 marker test results I've seen so far, I think the signature for L583 is awfully narrow. I have two 63/67 matches that came in L583- and the other 67 marker candidates I know about do not match what I consider to be the right signature for this SNP. Getting older test kits to upgrade to 67 markers may not be feasible unless I can get them to test L583 first since it is much less expensive. But it's like pulling teeth to even get an email response from any of my non-67 marker matches.


I just emailed known 1111EE cluster folks that have had a 67 marker test and have not yet tested for L583, and asked them to consider testing for it. We'll see what happens. One of the known 67 marker 1111EE people turned all their FTDNA contact information private so I decided to skip him. I actually think he did this soon after I contacted him in April about an L583 test. Gotta wonder why they even bother to sign the waiver and supply their email if this is their reaction to an honest inquiry (see the above comment about wet noodles).

I know that response all too well, so I feel your pain. My problem is a really close match born in England who doesn't match the other guys in his surname project but matches me and some other guys with my last name.
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Dubhthach
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« Reply #66 on: September 04, 2012, 05:07:09 AM »

There is a pretty firm variety that I had labeled 9926. They appear to be DF13* although I don't think they've tested for DF41 yet. I see RMS has recruited a few of them to join the L21 project.


f186947   Edgcombe   R-L21/DF13*   9926   England, South West, Devonshire, Edgcumbe
f231691   Edgecombe   R-L21   9926   England, South West, Devonshire, Edgcumbe
f202149   Edgcombe   zzL21predicted   9926   England, South West, Devonshire, Edgcumbe
f192153   Edgcombe   zzL21predicted   9926   England, South West, Cornwall, Launcells
f186676   Edgecomb   R-L21   9926   England, South West, Devonshire, Plymouth
f106895   Edgecombe   R-L21   9926   England, South West, Devonshire, Abbot
f219514   Edgcombe   R-L21   9926   England
f218064   Edgcombe   R-L21   9926   England
f227857   Shazell   R-L21   9926   England, South West, Devonshire, Milton Abbott
f232852   Shazell   R-L21   9926   England, South West, Devonshire, Milton Abbott
f192364   Edgecomb   zzL21predicted   9926   England, South West, Devonshire, Edgcumbe


I believe that 186947 is DF41-, on an earlier version of Alex Williamson tree he had clustered near to me. I recall he ordered DF41 after I got my positive result but came back as DF41-

There is a mail from this user in the L21 yahoo group mentioning his negative SNP's including DF41.

-Paul
(DF41+)
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df.reynolds
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« Reply #67 on: September 04, 2012, 06:16:03 AM »

There is a pretty firm variety that I had labeled 9926. They appear to be DF13* although I don't think they've tested for DF41 yet. I see RMS has recruited a few of them to join the L21 project.


f186947   Edgcombe   R-L21/DF13*   9926   England, South West, Devonshire, Edgcumbe
f231691   Edgecombe   R-L21   9926   England, South West, Devonshire, Edgcumbe
f202149   Edgcombe   zzL21predicted   9926   England, South West, Devonshire, Edgcumbe
f192153   Edgcombe   zzL21predicted   9926   England, South West, Cornwall, Launcells
f186676   Edgecomb   R-L21   9926   England, South West, Devonshire, Plymouth
f106895   Edgecombe   R-L21   9926   England, South West, Devonshire, Abbot
f219514   Edgcombe   R-L21   9926   England
f218064   Edgcombe   R-L21   9926   England
f227857   Shazell   R-L21   9926   England, South West, Devonshire, Milton Abbott
f232852   Shazell   R-L21   9926   England, South West, Devonshire, Milton Abbott
f192364   Edgecomb   zzL21predicted   9926   England, South West, Devonshire, Edgcumbe


I believe that 186947 is DF41-, on an earlier version of Alex Williamson tree he had clustered near to me. I recall he ordered DF41 after I got my positive result but came back as DF41-

There is a mail from this user in the L21 yahoo group mentioning his negative SNP's including DF41.

-Paul
(DF41+)

I was looking at this lot a few days ago and if you combine the results from 106895 and 186947, they are R-DF13**.  Interesting surname project, there are R-DF13**, R-M222, and I2b1 folks all claiming descent from the same Patriarch. :)
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Edgcomb/default.aspx?section=ysnp

--david
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« Reply #68 on: September 04, 2012, 08:41:37 AM »


I was looking at this lot a few days ago and if you combine the results from 106895 and 186947, they are R-DF13**.

Don't know if you'd routinely have noticed that one of them (186947) is in this project, with a son, showing one mutation @ 67 markers:

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Father-Son-Brother/default.aspx
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« Reply #69 on: September 04, 2012, 09:13:00 AM »

There is a pretty firm variety that I had labeled 9926. They appear to be DF13* although I don't think they've tested for DF41 yet. I see RMS has recruited a few of them to join the L21 project.


f186947   Edgcombe   R-L21/DF13*   9926   England, South West, Devonshire, Edgcumbe
f231691   Edgecombe   R-L21   9926   England, South West, Devonshire, Edgcumbe
f202149   Edgcombe   zzL21predicted   9926   England, South West, Devonshire, Edgcumbe
f192153   Edgcombe   zzL21predicted   9926   England, South West, Cornwall, Launcells
f186676   Edgecomb   R-L21   9926   England, South West, Devonshire, Plymouth
f106895   Edgecombe   R-L21   9926   England, South West, Devonshire, Abbot
f219514   Edgcombe   R-L21   9926   England
f218064   Edgcombe   R-L21   9926   England
f227857   Shazell   R-L21   9926   England, South West, Devonshire, Milton Abbott
f232852   Shazell   R-L21   9926   England, South West, Devonshire, Milton Abbott
f192364   Edgecomb   zzL21predicted   9926   England, South West, Devonshire, Edgcumbe


I believe that 186947 is DF41-, on an earlier version of Alex Williamson tree he had clustered near to me. I recall he ordered DF41 after I got my positive result but came back as DF41-

There is a mail from this user in the L21 yahoo group mentioning his negative SNP's including DF41.

-Paul
(DF41+)

I was looking at this lot a few days ago and if you combine the results from 106895 and 186947, they are R-DF13**.  Interesting surname project, there are R-DF13**, R-M222, and I2b1 folks all claiming descent from the same Patriarch. :)
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Edgcomb/default.aspx?section=ysnp

--david

Hi David,
As you have pointed out, we are collectively DF13**. Not sure what to do now!
The R-M222 and I2b1 individuals are, we have now established, the results of quite recent NPEs.
Cheers,
Eddy Edgecombe      
« Last Edit: September 04, 2012, 10:01:00 AM by on the edge » Logged
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« Reply #70 on: September 05, 2012, 10:06:05 AM »

I was just asked for this on another forum.

I count 33 people who are DF13*, that is DF13+ and negative for all of the Big Six. I guess you could call this the proven non-Bix Six people.

This is a special group of exploratory SNP testers that are contributing to the whole community's knowledge of the L21 phylogenetic while they narrow themselves to a smaller and smaller paragroup, finding their own SNPs on the way (over time.) The highest GD to the modal is 21 @67 but this will grow as testing continues. Things like TMRCA calculations are not as relevant for this group because it is not really a group with a most recent common ancestor. It's partial group and many members may be more related to some component of the Bix Six than to each other.

Geographically we find DF13* people from the British Isles

England __ 8
Ireland __ 6
Scotland _ 2
Wales ____ 1


We also find DF13* people from Denmark, France, Germany, Belarus, Romania and Spain (2).

These are not scientific surveys but given the higher testing rates in Ireland than in England and the dramatically higher rates in the Isles versus the continent, this may be a bit of a clue that DF13* people are quite geographically scattered. The proportions of DF13* to the Big Six appear to be higher on the continent than on the Isles.

Again, this is very speculative as the data we have is heavily biased, particularly to the British Isles, and particularly towards immigrants to America.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2012, 10:07:28 AM by Mikewww » Logged

R1b-L21>L513(DF1)>S6365>L705.2(&CTS11744,CTS6621)
Mark Jost
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« Reply #71 on: October 30, 2012, 10:58:33 PM »

Variance for DF13 xSubclades

DF13*
Intraclades Gen's  StdDevInGen   YBP  +-YBP   Var   SD   Count
FRA All   118.6   32.7   3,557.7   980.0   13.179   3.630   N=8
Wales    112.2   31.8   3,366.3   953.3   12.470   3.531   N=12
ENG ALL   109.6   31.4   3,287.5   942.1   12.178   3.490   N=45
Ger ALL    109.5   31.4   3,284.5   941.6   12.167   3.488   N=9
IRE-Ulst &
SCO-So   107.8   31.1   3,234.5   934.4   11.982   3.461   N=20
DF13* ALL
               107.1   31.0   3,211.8   931.2   11.897   3.449   N=279
ENG SW    105.4   30.8   3,162.4   924.0   11.714   3.423   N=7
IRE ALL    100.7   30.1   3,021.6   903.2   11.193   3.346   N=58
Ire Ulster   99.3   29.9   2,978.4   896.7   11.033   3.322   N=18
Ire Munst   97.7   29.6   2,930.3   889.4   10.855   3.295   N=11
NO Baltic    97.0   29.5   2,909.6   886.3   10.778   3.283   N=9
SCO ALL    92.8   28.9   2,783.5   866.8   10.311   3.211   N=60
SCO No     90.1   28.5   2,704.4   854.4   10.018   3.165   N=8
Sco W&C    85.4   27.7   2,561.1   831.5   9.487   3.080   N=13
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148326
Pos: Z245 L459 L21 DF13**
Neg: DF23 L513 L96 L144 Z255 Z253 DF21 DF41 (Z254 P66 P314.2 M37 M222  L563 L526 L226 L195 L193 L192.1 L159.2 L130 DF63 DF5 DF49)
WTYNeg: L555 L371 (L9/L10 L370 L302/L319.1 L554 L564 L577 P69 L626 L627 L643 L679)
Mike Forsythe
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« Reply #72 on: October 31, 2012, 09:55:12 AM »

DF13*
Intraclades Gen's  StdDevInGen   YBP  +-YBP   Var   SD   Count
FRA All   118.6   32.7   3,557.7   980.0   13.179   3.630   N=8
Wales    112.2   31.8   3,366.3   953.3   12.470   3.531   N=12
ENG ALL   109.6   31.4   3,287.5   942.1   12.178   3.490   N=45
Ger ALL    109.5   31.4   3,284.5   941.6   12.167   3.488   N=9
IRE-Ulst &
SCO-So   107.8   31.1   3,234.5   934.4   11.982   3.461   N=20
DF13* ALL
               107.1   31.0   3,211.8   931.2   11.897   3.449   N=279
ENG SW    105.4   30.8   3,162.4   924.0   11.714   3.423   N=7
IRE ALL    100.7   30.1   3,021.6   903.2   11.193   3.346   N=58
Ire Ulster   99.3   29.9   2,978.4   896.7   11.033   3.322   N=18
Ire Munst   97.7   29.6   2,930.3   889.4   10.855   3.295   N=11
NO Baltic    97.0   29.5   2,909.6   886.3   10.778   3.283   N=9
SCO ALL    92.8   28.9   2,783.5   866.8   10.311   3.211   N=60
SCO No     90.1   28.5   2,704.4   854.4   10.018   3.165   N=8
Sco W&C    85.4   27.7   2,561.1   831.5   9.487   3.080   N=13

Mark or someone , would you tell me what this means...Thanks!
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Mark Jost
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« Reply #73 on: October 31, 2012, 11:10:40 AM »

DF13*
Intraclades Gen's  StdDevInGen   YBP  +-YBP   Var   SD   Count


Mark or someone , would you tell me what this means...Thanks!
These are DF13*'s (xSubclades) Haplotypes categorized by region and sorted by variance (larger is generally older).

I will post a list that includes varieties and the above shortly.

MJost
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148326
Pos: Z245 L459 L21 DF13**
Neg: DF23 L513 L96 L144 Z255 Z253 DF21 DF41 (Z254 P66 P314.2 M37 M222  L563 L526 L226 L195 L193 L192.1 L159.2 L130 DF63 DF5 DF49)
WTYNeg: L555 L371 (L9/L10 L370 L302/L319.1 L554 L564 L577 P69 L626 L627 L643 L679)
Mark Jost
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« Reply #74 on: October 31, 2012, 11:17:08 AM »


TMRCA-DF13* x Subclades showing Varieties and Regions with Variance sorted

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0By9Y3jb2fORNbXFHNDJ0ZmhlUm8/edit

MJost
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148326
Pos: Z245 L459 L21 DF13**
Neg: DF23 L513 L96 L144 Z255 Z253 DF21 DF41 (Z254 P66 P314.2 M37 M222  L563 L526 L226 L195 L193 L192.1 L159.2 L130 DF63 DF5 DF49)
WTYNeg: L555 L371 (L9/L10 L370 L302/L319.1 L554 L564 L577 P69 L626 L627 L643 L679)
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