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Author Topic: DF13+ DF21- DF23- Z253- What next?  (Read 4883 times)
Mike Walsh
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« Reply #25 on: August 28, 2012, 11:19:16 AM »

Thanks, for your aggressiveness in testing, O'Connor. I would call you an explorer. Your leadership is helping us understand L21 and DF13.... and at least you moved to DF13+ so that's another step in the progression.

P312+ P25+ M343+ M269+ M207+ M173+ L21+ DF13+

Z255- Z253- SRY2627- P66- M73- M65- M37- M222- M18- M160- M153- M126- L96- L371- L195- L193- L192.1- L159.2- L144- L130- DF49- DF41- DF23- DF21- DF1-

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Perhaps I should test for L513 ?? would that make me DF13*(if L513-)

You can, if you want. I moved you to category "Ca. DF13* (L21>DF13; Negative for the known DF13+ subclades)" already. Maybe that's jumping the gun, technically, but I think at this point it isn't very likely you'll be L513+ or L555+.....

I think L513 is a moot point for fN12172 O'Connor by now anyway.
I don't know if this is recent or not, but I've got him as DF13+ L513- DF21- DF49- Z253- Z255- DF41- L144- L371- L96- L130- L192.1- L195- 3c1g

I count DF13+ L513- DF21- DF49- Z253- Z255- as DF13* (in the spreadsheet) and I will add DF41 to that soon. For DF13** status I add a requirement for  L144- L371- L555- L96- so you are only missing L555 if you are interested in that.

I sorted the L21 confirmed and suspected file by closest GD to you. No one is closer than GD=10 @67 but that's not all that lonely compared to some others.


fN12172   O'Connor   R-L21/DF13*   zzDF13unassigned   Ireland   DF13+ L513- DF21- DF49- Z253- Z255- DF41- L144- L371- L96- L130- L192.1- L195- 3c1g   0
yW8PNU   Bryant   zzL21predicted   513-1113-G   England, South West, Devonshire, Ashreigney      10
f58796   Emery    R-L21   1221   England   L21+   10
f173642   Gambrel   zzL21predicted   513-1113-G   England      10
f92605   Gamel   R-L21/DF13/L513   513-1113-G   zzzUnkOrigin   L513+   10
f20004   Murphy   zzL21predicted   1221   Ireland      10
f52762   Tiernan   R-L21/DF13/L513   513-1113-G   Ireland, Leinster, Co. Dublin, Naul   L513+ L577-   10
f116944   Churchman   R-L21   21-246-3016   England, East, Cambridgeshire   L21+ L192.1- 3c1g   11
f54142   Bayne   R-L21/DF13   zzDF13unassigned   England, Yorkshire and Humber, North Yorkshire, Nidderdale   DF13+ L144- L96-   12
yNZCX5   Emmons   R-L21   zzL21unassigned   England   L21+   12
fN1946   Gamble   R-L21/DF13/L513   513-1113-G   UK   L513+   12
f215927   Livingston   R-L21/DF13   zzDF13unassigned   Scotland   DF13+ L144- L96-   12
fN61764   Marsh   R-L21   zzL21unassigned   UK   L21+   12
f130820   Street   R-L21   zzL21unassigned   England   L21+   12
f38569   Birnbach(U152?)   zzL21predicted   513-1113-G   Poland, Galicia, Wildenthal (Nowy Dzikowiec)/Lipnica (Kolbuszowa)      13
f178236   Brooks   R-L21   2210   zzzUnkOrigin   L21+   13
fN82444   Case   R-L21/DF13   2210   Ireland, Ulster   DF13+ L459+ DF21-   13
f232198   Dempsey   R-L21   1221   Ireland   L21+   13
f192172   Eddy   R-L21   2210   zzzUnkOrigin   L21+   13
f121330   Egan   R-L21   9910   Wales   L21+   13
f195094   Gambill   R-L21/DF13/L513*   513-1113-G   UK   L513+ L193- L706.2- L69- L577- L908- L909-   13
f110603   Gorman   zzL21predicted   253- unassigned   Ireland, Leinster, Co. Waterford      13
f166686   Healy   R-L21   253-1223   Ireland   L21+   13
f96000   King   R-L21   zzL21unassigned   zzzUnkOrigin   L21+   13
f208276   MacKall   R-L21   zzL21unassigned   Scotland, Highland, Caithness   L21+   13
yW78QC   Mayfield   R-L21   1212   zzzUnkOrigin   L21+   13
f88917   McCorkle   zzL21predicted   21-5909-LS   Ireland      13
f63941   McKenzie   zzL21predicted   513-1113-E   Scotland      13
f28079   Miller   R-L21   zzL21unassigned   Scotland   L21+   13
f167501   Murphy   R-L21   1221   Ireland   L21+   13
f49964   Peak   R-L21   zzL21unassigned   Ireland, Ulster, Co. Down, Saintfield   L21+   13
f178336   Pell   R-L21   2510   zzzUnkOrigin   L21+   13
f192610   Powers   R-L21   253- unassigned   United Kingdom   L21+   13
f172278   Pry   R-L21   253-1716   Ireland   L21+   13
f75794   Rolph   R-L21   zzL21unassigned   England   L21+   13


Just beyond GD=13, at 14 you do have an Irwin (L555+) and Collins (predicted L555+) so L555 is within the realm of possibilities, though probably unlikely.

I looked for off modal signature for you and people in your closest GDs.  I found something that might be worth pursuing.

You have this and this is common in your GDs of 13 or less - 393=12 481=23 464c=16 464d=16. These aren't the most stable markers so I don't know how great of a signature this is.


fN12172   O'Connor   R-L21/DF13*   zzDF13unassigned
f58796   Emery    R-L21   1221
f20004   Murphy   zzL21predicted   1221
f178236   Brooks   R-L21   2210
f232198   Dempsey   R-L21   1221
f192172   Eddy   R-L21   2210


I need to relook at the variety STR signatures for 1221 and 2210 but you may fit in with these guys somehow. If we come up with something then perhaps your whole line of attack should be to get these guys to test deeper and perhaps order WTY for someone in the group.

.. back to L555. It is pretty unlikely you'll be L555+, but I'd never say never so it depends on your perspective on the hobby. I'm a little crazy so I have to know if I'm an asterisk or double asterisk guy so I always test for each possible terminal SNP with my current SNP status/descendancy tree.

Once upon a time, a citizen-scientist (of whom we all should be grateful for) told me to check out a particular SNP but he wasn't particularly positive about it so I stewed about it but eventually weighed the cost versus cable and restaurant bills and gave in.  Just after I ordered, the citizen-scientist came back to me and said he didn't think I'd be positive for it and it was probably a waste. He didn't know I had just ordered it. I felt sick but then just decided to forget about it.   Well, two weeks later I received a congratulatory message from an ISOGG rep. It seemed strange as it was not specific, but I thought I'd better check and sure enough I had new terminal SNP.  With a little (actually a lot) recruiting we are now up to 15 guys and I think we are on the Geno 2.0 chip so it was worth it.  

It's better to be lucky than good.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2012, 12:35:38 PM by Mikewww » Logged

R1b-L21>L513(DF1)>S6365>L705.2(&CTS11744,CTS6621)
OConnor
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« Reply #26 on: August 28, 2012, 11:54:23 AM »

Thank-you for the time and effort comparing my sequence.

Right now I'm waiting for my 111 upgrade, due the first week in September. After that I may consider WTY.
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R1b1a2a1a1b4


R-DF13**(L21>DF13)
M42+, M45+, M526+, M74+, M89+, M9+, M94+, P108+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, P311+, P312+, P316+, M173+, M269+, M343+, P312+, L21+, DF13+, M207+, P25+, L11+, L138+, L141+, L15+, L150+, L16+, L23+, L51+, L52+, M168+, M173+, M207+, M213+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M343+, P69+, P9.1+, P97+, PK1+, SRY10831.1+, L21+, L226-, M37-, M222-, L96-, L193-, L144-, P66-, SRY2627-, M222-, DF49-, L371-, DF41-, L513-, L555-, L1335-, L1406-, Z251-, L526-, L130-, L144-, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195-, L96-, DF21-, Z255-, DF23-, DF1-, Z253-, M37-, M65-, M73-, M18-, M126-, M153-, M160-, P66-

12 24 14 10 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29 18


rms2
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« Reply #27 on: August 29, 2012, 10:26:23 PM »

Big news for me: my cluster brother Cooper just got a DF41+ result!

That means it's likely I and my entire cluster are DF41+.

I am really shocked. I did not expect this.

Wow!
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Richard Rocca
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« Reply #28 on: August 29, 2012, 10:44:04 PM »

Big news for me: my cluster brother Cooper just got a DF41+ result!

That means it's likely I and my entire cluster are DF41+.

I am really shocked. I did not expect this.

Wow!

That is great news congratulations. Anything stand out about your cluster?
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Maternal: H
rms2
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« Reply #29 on: August 29, 2012, 10:47:12 PM »

Big news for me: my cluster brother Cooper just got a DF41+ result!

That means it's likely I and my entire cluster are DF41+.

I am really shocked. I did not expect this.

Wow!

That is great news congratulations. Anything stand out about your cluster?

It appears to be from the West Midlands or NE Wales. I have a 65/67 match with a man born in Worcester but whose family was from Shropshire near the Welsh border. My other matches/cluster members all seem to have surnames from that area or can trace their lines there. Self (I don't have time to look up his kit or Ysearch ID at the moment) traces his mdka to Wiltshire.
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Mike Walsh
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« Reply #30 on: August 29, 2012, 10:48:24 PM »

Big news for me: my cluster brother Cooper just got a DF41+ result!

That means it's likely I and my entire cluster are DF41+.

I am really shocked. I did not expect this.

Wow!

Hot dog! Congratulations.  You and Paul D need to share a brew.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2012, 10:49:00 PM by Mikewww » Logged

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df.reynolds
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« Reply #31 on: August 29, 2012, 10:58:30 PM »

Big news for me: my cluster brother Cooper just got a DF41+ result!

That means it's likely I and my entire cluster are DF41+.

I am really shocked. I did not expect this.

Wow!

Congrats! Yet another shining example of persistence paying off when chasing SNPs.

--david
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Mike Walsh
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« Reply #32 on: August 29, 2012, 11:22:23 PM »

Big news for me: my cluster brother Cooper just got a DF41+ result!
That means it's likely I and my entire cluster are DF41+.
I am really shocked. I did not expect this.
Wow!

That is great news congratulations. Anything stand out about your cluster?

It appears to be from the West Midlands or NE Wales. I have a 65/67 match with a man born in Worcester but whose family was from Shropshire near the Welsh border. My other matches/cluster members all seem to have surnames from that area or can trace their lines there. Self (I don't have time to look up his kit or Ysearch ID at the moment) traces his mdka to Wiltshire.

Let me know what matches you have and in what projects and I'll add them to the spreadsheet.  Here is what I have your variety now. Of course, I've just updated the label to add the "41-" in front but its a pretty solid cluster and since DF41 is so old I don't think there is any doubt. The STR signature I have for 41-1123 is 390=23 385=11,11 458=16 439=11 464b=16 (447=24).

Cooper is the furthest out from the modal for the group so more DF41 testing is probably warranted.

yVT2R6____ Beddoes________ R-L21_________________________ 41-1123______________ GD=3__ England, West Midlands, Shropshire, Salop
f57563____ Cooper_________ R-L21/DF13/DF41_______________ 41-1123______________ GD=9__ UK
f208061___ Stephens_______ zzL21predicted________________ 41-1123______________ GD=2__ zzzUnkOrigin
f212967___ Stevens________ zzL21predicted________________ 41-1123______________ GD=3__ England
fN40760___ Stevens________ R-L21_________________________ 41-1123______________ GD=xx__ UK
f250145___ Stevens________ R-L21_________________________ 41-1123______________ GD=xx__ UK
f59080____ Stevens________ R-L21/DF13____________________ 41-1123______________ GD=1__ zzzUnkOrigin
f88034____ Stevens________ zzL21predicted________________ 41-1123______________ GD=3__ zzzUnkOrigin
f124786___ Stevens________ zzL21predicted________________ 41-1123______________ GD=xx__ zzzUnkOrigin
f191492___ Stevens________ zzL21predicted________________ 41-1123______________ GD=xx__ zzzUnkOrigin
f163684___ Webb___________ R-L21_________________________ 41-1123______________ GD=3__ England


BTW, once again, thanks are due to the citizen-scientists who uncovered the DF series of SNPs.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2012, 11:31:11 PM by Mikewww » Logged

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Mark Jost
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« Reply #33 on: August 29, 2012, 11:50:50 PM »

Wow Congrates! That was a surprise. And you though you would be a DF13**'er.

MJost

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148326
Pos: Z245 L459 L21 DF13**
Neg: DF23 L513 L96 L144 Z255 Z253 DF21 DF41 (Z254 P66 P314.2 M37 M222  L563 L526 L226 L195 L193 L192.1 L159.2 L130 DF63 DF5 DF49)
WTYNeg: L555 L371 (L9/L10 L370 L302/L319.1 L554 L564 L577 P69 L626 L627 L643 L679)
seferhabahir
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« Reply #34 on: August 30, 2012, 01:54:28 AM »

Wow Congrates! That was a surprise. And you though you would be a DF13**'er.

MJost


Very cool, indeed. I know you have been most patient looking for your SNPs.
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Heber
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« Reply #35 on: August 30, 2012, 02:05:18 AM »

Congratulations. It was a long time coming. Persistence pays off. It will be interesting to see how DF41 relates to the rest of Df13. Any idea about its origin historically.
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Heber


 
R1b1a2a1a1b4  L459+ L21+ DF21+ DF13+ U198- U106- P66- P314.2- M37- M222- L96- L513- L48- L44- L4- L226- L2- L196- L195- L193- L192.1- L176.2- L165- L159.2- L148- L144- L130- L1-
Paternal L21* DF21


Maternal H1C1



Dubhthach
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« Reply #36 on: August 30, 2012, 02:08:55 AM »

Wow very cool! DF41+ continues to grow and grow, when I started the process of getting it on ISOGG it was only myself and some of the 1426c folks (big shout out to Chris -- first to test DF41+). I was basically an outlier and only due to my positive result did we have the 15% GD to qualify, that and myself and Chris put our money on table to sponsor folks from other clades.

Rich I assume you gonna put in an order yourself just for confirmation?

-Paul
(DF41+)
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Heber
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« Reply #37 on: August 30, 2012, 02:21:54 AM »

FYI,
Here is what Wiki has to say.

"Stephen is a surname of Anglo-Welsh and Gaelic origin. It is a rare surname and is usually found as a first name. It is thought to have originated from the Gaelic-speaking world as Stephan.
Stephen is the 3,845 most common surname in the USA.
MacStèaphain (Scottish Gaelic) Stephen is a sept of the clan MacTavish."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_(surname)

While the origins of the term sept are disputed, in modern times Scottish septs are considered to be family names and name variants associated with a particular clan. In some instances, names are added to the list of clan septs by invitation of the Chief in honor of a valued friendship or marriage[15]. In this manner, Stephenson/Stevenson was added to the Sept list for Clan MacTavish by Chief E.S. Dugald MacTavish in 1999.
Names, variant names, and septs for Clan MacTavish include Cash, MacCash, MacCavish, MacLehose, MacSteaphain, MacTavish, MacThom, MacThomas, Stephen(son), Steven(son), Tais, Taws, Taweson, Thom, Thomas, Thomason, Thompson, Thomson, Tod(d) and all variant spellings.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clan_MacTavish

Edit:
Here is the official Genealogy of the MacTavish Clan (Stevens)
http://www.clanmactavish.org/documents/bloodline_of_chief_mactavish.pdf
Here is the Official Genealogy of Clan Macfie (Duffy)
http://www.clanmacfie.co.uk/clanhome/dr_earle_download.php
One of the common ancestors was McAlpin.

« Last Edit: August 30, 2012, 07:42:51 AM by Heber » Logged

Heber


 
R1b1a2a1a1b4  L459+ L21+ DF21+ DF13+ U198- U106- P66- P314.2- M37- M222- L96- L513- L48- L44- L4- L226- L2- L196- L195- L193- L192.1- L176.2- L165- L159.2- L148- L144- L130- L1-
Paternal L21* DF21


Maternal H1C1



k.o.gran
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« Reply #38 on: August 30, 2012, 02:52:19 AM »

Big news for me: my cluster brother Cooper just got a DF41+ result!

That means it's likely I and my entire cluster are DF41+.

I am really shocked. I did not expect this.

Wow!

Congratulations! :)

Yet again it proves that nothing is known until all big six are tested.

-Kai
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Jdean
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« Reply #39 on: August 30, 2012, 04:30:14 AM »

Big news for me: my cluster brother Cooper just got a DF41+ result!

That means it's likely I and my entire cluster are DF41+.

I am really shocked. I did not expect this.

Wow!

Brilliant !!!
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Ysearch 3BMC9

rms2
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« Reply #40 on: August 30, 2012, 08:07:16 AM »

Thanks, everyone. I'm back at work now (I am a teacher), my summer break is over, and I am taking another grad class right now (my license is up for renewal in June), so I don't have as much time for the forum as I would like.

@Dubhthach

I ordered DF41 for myself within a few minutes of finding out Cooper was DF41+. I want to be sure about it, and I want whatever the long designator for DF41 will be once the YCC updates its tree.

@Mikewww

I'm not sure about kit numbers, but some of my other cluster brothers at 67 markers are:

Price - Ysearch NF2TH


Self - 54XP8

Chorn - DX6FN

At 37 markers there is also

Waddell - 67KJ9

Now I'm wondering what DF41 means in terms of geography and tribe/ethnicity. I know the royal House of Stewart is DF41+. DF41 seems a group with a western slant in the Isles and plenty of Scots and Irish. Of course, the Stewarts are supposed to be Breton in origin. Are we descendants of Bretons who came in with the Normans? Or are we the descendants of Irish who settled in Britain in the immediate post-Roman period? Or was DF41 in place in the Isles before the historical period?
« Last Edit: August 30, 2012, 08:11:05 AM by rms2 » Logged

Dubhthach
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« Reply #41 on: August 30, 2012, 09:03:42 AM »

I think given some of age estimates that DF41 has been around in the isles for quite some time. Tbh I wouldn't ascribe a nationality to it, as our concepts of Irishness, Scottishness, Welshness etc are fairly modern in some ways.

Even in the context of 2,000 years ago when you could say that both Archaic-Irish (or even Proto-Goidelic) and Brythonic were been spoken they weren't hugely dissimilar languages. One could argue there's probably was less difference then comparing Low-German (Saxon) and standard German (due to High German Sound Shift).

I think the one thing we can say is that it was definitely present among peoples who spoke at least a Celtic language.

-Paul
(DF41+)
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Mark Jost
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« Reply #42 on: August 30, 2012, 10:16:00 AM »

Paul and Rich etal DF41's,

for the 41-1013, -1123, 1411, 1426c, 1426c-A's.

YrsPerGen*   Count   IntraClade Coalescence Age   Generations   StdDevInGen   YBP   + - YBP
30   N=40   Clade A: Df41 XStuSNPs  GA Coal.=   99.8   29.2   2,995.5   875.1

Founder's Age   Generations   StdDevInGen   YBP   + - YBP
GA=   102.4   29.5   3,072.3   886.3

MJost
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148326
Pos: Z245 L459 L21 DF13**
Neg: DF23 L513 L96 L144 Z255 Z253 DF21 DF41 (Z254 P66 P314.2 M37 M222  L563 L526 L226 L195 L193 L192.1 L159.2 L130 DF63 DF5 DF49)
WTYNeg: L555 L371 (L9/L10 L370 L302/L319.1 L554 L564 L577 P69 L626 L627 L643 L679)
Dubhthach
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« Reply #43 on: August 30, 2012, 11:56:04 AM »

Mark, so the addition of the 1123 people pushes out the age for DF41 correct? I remember your earlier calculations put DF41 "Coalescence Age" closer to 2,000 years ago or thereabouts?

-Paul
(DF41+)
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Mike Walsh
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« Reply #44 on: August 30, 2012, 12:09:49 PM »

I'm pretty excited about this. You have carried a tremendous workload for L21! I guess since you've been an L21 brother so long its just like part of the family. Maybe its a possible with the Welsh/Breton fitz Stephen. I might be related maternally. He's supposed to be grandfather or uncle to my purported clan progenitor.

I'm doing a little more checking into some surname projects. Please see below.
I'm not sure about kit numbers, but some of my other cluster brothers at 67 markers are:

Price - Ysearch NF2TH

Self - 54XP8
Chorn - DX6FN

At 37 markers there is also
Waddell - 67KJ9

Your variety's total off-modal STR signature is quite extensive. I think at 67 STRs it is these:
390=23 385=11,11 447<=24 448<=28 464b=16 534<=14 413a<=22 (458=16 439<=11 )

The parenthesis just means usually but not always. I think 390=23 perhaps should be a "usually" as well.  Look at these two guys in the Price project, particularly 74415. The first one is off at 439 but the 2nd one I think is a fit despite his 390=24.

127564    Nathan Price b. 1824 in Pulaski CO, KY    England    R1b1a2
74415    John H. Price, b. 1806 Wales    Wales    R1b1a2

Anyway the exacted required STR signature is important for one process I have. After FTDNA updates its haplotree I'll scrape through a large number of surname projects again.  I just copy the data in and apply a set of formulas to look for suspected L21+ (from the R1b1a2 predicted) people. I'm adding a formula for your variety. I've got to keep these to a minimum so I'm just looking for 67 STR folks but I'm thinking I should be looking for 385=11,11 447<=24 413a<=22 with not 492=13 for your variety. Make sense?

P.S. I'm doubly glad I looked at the Price project. I found a good L513 B-2 prospect, an YCAII=18,23 guy.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2012, 12:24:44 PM by Mikewww » Logged

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Mike Walsh
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« Reply #45 on: August 30, 2012, 12:16:45 PM »

Mark, so the addition of the 1123 people pushes out the age for DF41 correct? I remember your earlier calculations put DF41 "Coalescence Age" closer to 2,000 years ago or thereabouts?

These ages will change as more DF41 people are discovered. As has been mentioned multiple times, there is a bias in the intraclade "coalescence" types of age estimates.  A good example is DF49. It's intraclade TMRCA is not old because it dominated (and I mean dominated) by M222. Without some kind of re-sampling exercise the results can be misleading. DF49 has to be quite old as their haplotypes look like any L21* or DF13* haplotype, not at all like the distinctive M222 haplotype. M222 doesn't even necessarily have the high 481 values like DF23* and M222 have.

I'm just saying the wide GD's that can be spotted within DF41 indicate a very old age.
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Mark Jost
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« Reply #46 on: August 30, 2012, 01:10:17 PM »

@Paul,

Removing the 1123's ( and leaving out the Stu's), the 67 marker results are about the same. Adding all these new HTs must have pushed it older unless.

Founder's Age   Generations   StdDevInGen   YBP   + - YBP
GA=   99.7   29.2   2,991.7   874.6
 

I think it was the 111 marker level results that were at around 2K.

I just pulled a clean list of L21 111 marker and DF41 xStu and ran that list at both 111 and then 67 marker length. (I guess there are no 111 marker 1123 guys)

Founder's Age at 30 yrs per Generation:
Generations   StdDevInGen   YBP   + - YBP
111Markers
DF41 xStu  N=12
65.5   16.7   1,964.0   500.6

L21 All N=751
119.0   22.5   3,570.9   675.0
 
67 Markers
DF41 xStu  N=12
58.6   22.4   1,758.8   670.6

L21 All N=751
126.8   32.9   3,802.5   986.0


There appears to be a significant difference between the ages of 67 vs 111 markers which 111 marker is tend to be alot less. So the age of the clade is better representative at 111 markers even though it is harder to swollow that L21 might be younger than thought.

MJost
« Last Edit: August 30, 2012, 01:11:02 PM by Mark Jost » Logged

148326
Pos: Z245 L459 L21 DF13**
Neg: DF23 L513 L96 L144 Z255 Z253 DF21 DF41 (Z254 P66 P314.2 M37 M222  L563 L526 L226 L195 L193 L192.1 L159.2 L130 DF63 DF5 DF49)
WTYNeg: L555 L371 (L9/L10 L370 L302/L319.1 L554 L564 L577 P69 L626 L627 L643 L679)
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« Reply #47 on: August 30, 2012, 06:48:08 PM »

This is about the best I can do for now that look like members of the 41-1123 variety while looking at just 67 markers. The GDs are only ones at 67 markers and they are to the modal for the group.


yVT2R6____ Beddoes________ R-L21_________________________ 41-1123______________ GD=3__ England, West Midlands, Shropshire, Salop
yDX6FN____ Chorn__________ zzL21predicted________________ 41-1123______________ GD=9__ UK
f57563____ Cooper_________ R-L21/DF13/DF41_______________ 41-1123______________ GD=7__ UK
f8988_____ Price__________ zzL21predicted________________ 41-1123______________ GD=xx__ Wales
f28470____ Price__________ zzL21predicted________________ 41-1123______________ GD=4__ Wales
y54XP8____ Self___________ zzL21predicted________________ 41-1123______________ GD=8__ England, Wiltshire, Melksham
f208061___ Stephens_______ zzL21predicted________________ 41-1123______________ GD=4__ zzzUnkOrigin
f212967___ Stevens________ zzL21predicted________________ 41-1123______________ GD=5__ England
fN40760___ Stevens________ R-L21_________________________ 41-1123______________ GD=xx__ UK
f250145___ Stevens________ R-L21_________________________ 41-1123______________ GD=xx__ UK
f59080____ Stevens________ R-L21/DF13____________________ 41-1123______________ GD=3__ zzzUnkOrigin
f88034____ Stevens________ zzL21predicted________________ 41-1123______________ GD=5__ zzzUnkOrigin
f124786___ Stevens________ zzL21predicted________________ 41-1123______________ GD=xx__ zzzUnkOrigin
f191492___ Stevens________ zzL21predicted________________ 41-1123______________ GD=xx__ zzzUnkOrigin
y67KJ9____ Waddell________ zzL21predicted________________ 41-1123______________ GD=xx__ Scotland
f163684___ Webb___________ R-L21_________________________ 41-1123______________ GD=1__ England
f48142____ Webb___________ zzL21predicted________________ 41-1123______________ GD=2__ UK

« Last Edit: August 30, 2012, 10:46:16 PM by Mikewww » Logged

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« Reply #48 on: August 30, 2012, 10:51:23 PM »

This is about the best I can do for now that look like members of the 41-1123 variety while looking at just 67 markers. The GDs are only ones at 67 markers and they are to the modal for the group.


yVT2R6____ Beddoes________ R-L21_________________________ 41-1123______________ GD=3__ England, West Midlands, Shropshire, Salop
yDX6FN____ Chorn__________ zzL21predicted________________ 41-1123______________ GD=9__ UK
f57563____ Cooper_________ R-L21/DF13/DF41_______________ 41-1123______________ GD=7__ UK
f8988_____ Price__________ zzL21predicted________________ 41-1123______________ GD=xx__ Wales
f28470____ Price__________ zzL21predicted________________ 41-1123______________ GD=4__ Wales
y54XP8____ Self___________ zzL21predicted________________ 41-1123______________ GD=8__ England, Wiltshire, Melksham
f208061___ Stephens_______ zzL21predicted________________ 41-1123______________ GD=4__ zzzUnkOrigin
f212967___ Stevens________ zzL21predicted________________ 41-1123______________ GD=5__ England
fN40760___ Stevens________ R-L21_________________________ 41-1123______________ GD=xx__ UK
f250145___ Stevens________ R-L21_________________________ 41-1123______________ GD=xx__ UK
f59080____ Stevens________ R-L21/DF13____________________ 41-1123______________ GD=3__ zzzUnkOrigin
f88034____ Stevens________ zzL21predicted________________ 41-1123______________ GD=5__ zzzUnkOrigin
f124786___ Stevens________ zzL21predicted________________ 41-1123______________ GD=xx__ zzzUnkOrigin
f191492___ Stevens________ zzL21predicted________________ 41-1123______________ GD=xx__ zzzUnkOrigin
y67KJ9____ Waddell________ zzL21predicted________________ 41-1123______________ GD=xx__ Scotland
f163684___ Webb___________ R-L21_________________________ 41-1123______________ GD=1__ England
f48142____ Webb___________ zzL21predicted________________ 41-1123______________ GD=2__ UK


I think there are some more Waddell guys in this project:
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/waddell/default.aspx?section=yresults

Looks like there a number of 41-1123 from Scotland.
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« Reply #49 on: August 31, 2012, 07:45:40 AM »

Thanks, Mike. I appreciate your work on this.

Most of the guys in my cluster, with the exception of Cooper and one of the Webbs, just aren't that interested, sadly. With Cooper's DF41+ result, and if I firm it up by getting a DF41+ result, as well, at least we'll be able to say something definite about it. I really expected to be DF13**, but I am really glad to be a likely DF41+ instead.

Waddell and I emailed each other back and forth a few years ago. He has his paper trail solidly traced to (as I recall) Lothian in Scotland. Since he knows his y line so well, he's just not that interested in putting out more money to refine its genetic profile and the effort to try to understand it. He basically told me to quit bothering him, that he's just not interested.

Beddoes belongs to a surname project that is so top secret that only its administrator can see it. I feel blessed to have gotten him to create a Ysearch entry. He doesn't answer my emails anymore.

Chorn and Self are friendly guys. I might be able to convince them to order DF41.

« Last Edit: August 31, 2012, 07:46:32 AM by rms2 » Logged

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