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rms2
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« Reply #50 on: August 31, 2012, 07:56:19 AM »

I think given some of age estimates that DF41 has been around in the isles for quite some time. Tbh I wouldn't ascribe a nationality to it, as our concepts of Irishness, Scottishness, Welshness etc are fairly modern in some ways.

Even in the context of 2,000 years ago when you could say that both Archaic-Irish (or even Proto-Goidelic) and Brythonic were been spoken they weren't hugely dissimilar languages. One could argue there's probably was less difference then comparing Low-German (Saxon) and standard German (due to High German Sound Shift).

I think the one thing we can say is that it was definitely present among peoples who spoke at least a Celtic language.

-Paul
(DF41+)

Of course, you're right, but one always hopes for something really definitive out of a y-dna test result.

I guess that sort of precision will only come with whole genome testing.

As we continue to further refine what we know about the branches and twigs and leaf stems of L21, it prompts me to wonder about the mechanism or processes that produced the most populous of them. What crosses my mind is the old "Genghis Khan" or "Great Man" idea: the likelihood that populous clades are the product of the reproductive activities of a tribal chief or clan leader, some sort of "Great Man". That seems likelier to me than mere dumb luck. Tribal chiefs, especially those with many wives, concubines, etc., definitely enjoyed a considerable reproductive advantage over the average man.
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OConnor
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« Reply #51 on: August 31, 2012, 08:29:08 AM »

I guess many of my thoughts are considered rather radical.

It crossed my mind that people entering a new geographical area probably travelled with friends/family, many of which could have been close cousins. Perhaps a haplo group could grow rapidly once their numbers were situated. Perhaps the common ancestor lived in another geographical area ?

For example the Vikings. I wondered if many long boats were each manned by people from specific villages who could be closely related(and others of course). I don't know how the Vikings recruited their men. I assume many brother/cousins travelled together in comrad support.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2012, 08:31:23 AM by OConnor » Logged

R1b1a2a1a1b4


R-DF13**(L21>DF13)
M42+, M45+, M526+, M74+, M89+, M9+, M94+, P108+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, P311+, P312+, P316+, M173+, M269+, M343+, P312+, L21+, DF13+, M207+, P25+, L11+, L138+, L141+, L15+, L150+, L16+, L23+, L51+, L52+, M168+, M173+, M207+, M213+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M343+, P69+, P9.1+, P97+, PK1+, SRY10831.1+, L21+, L226-, M37-, M222-, L96-, L193-, L144-, P66-, SRY2627-, M222-, DF49-, L371-, DF41-, L513-, L555-, L1335-, L1406-, Z251-, L526-, L130-, L144-, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195-, L96-, DF21-, Z255-, DF23-, DF1-, Z253-, M37-, M65-, M73-, M18-, M126-, M153-, M160-, P66-

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Mike Walsh
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« Reply #52 on: August 31, 2012, 08:37:51 AM »

I guess many of my thoughts are considered rather radical.

It crossed my mind that people entering a new geographical area probably travelled with friends/family, many of which could have been close cousins. Perhaps a haplo group could grow rapidly once their numbers were situated. Perhaps the common ancestor lived in another geographical area ?

For example the Vikings. I wondered if many long boats were each manned by people from specific villages who could be closely related(and others of course). I don't know how the Vikings recruited their men. I assume many brother/cousins travelled together in comrad support. 

I wouldn't call that radical at all that migrations that resulted in successful settlements involved groups of people and that many of those were related, who's common ancestor didn't come with them or was long dead back in the old country.

This is also one of the problems of calculating TMRCA's (Time to Most Recent Common Ancestor) by geography. We shouldn't assume that the true MRCA actually lived in the same geography.
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rms2
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« Reply #53 on: August 31, 2012, 09:01:50 AM »

I agree with both of you (Mike and Mike), but the success of a clade still might come down to the "Great Man" who was its progenitor, regardless of where his numerous descendants went. If his numerous sons, or at least some of them, were also "great men" in their own right, the effect would have been compounded.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2012, 09:02:47 AM by rms2 » Logged

Mike Walsh
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« Reply #54 on: August 31, 2012, 09:06:07 AM »

This is about the best I can do for now that look like members of the 41-1123 variety while looking at just 67 markers. The GDs are only ones at 67 markers and they are to the modal for the group.


y67KJ9____ Waddell________ zzL21predicted________________ 41-1123______________ GD=xx__ Scotland
 


I think there are some more Waddell guys in this project:
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/waddell/default.aspx?section=yresults

I highly recommend getting a Waddell to test SNPs.  I have to say after looking a little deeper this may be a classic case of accidental convergence and the Waddells that are beautiful matches are possibly U106+.

The Ysearch Waddell that you had that got me on the track of this family is  y67KJ9, which is only 37 markers. The haplotype is an exact match for f66268 in the FTDNA Waddell project.

f66268 Waddell looks a lot like the Stevens folks with off-modals 390=23 385=11,11 439<=11 447<=24 448<=28 464b=16 but there is one marker off significantly. Waddell has 458=18 whereas the Stevens is on the other side of the modal at 458=16. I wasn't too worried about one marker being off though.

Here are all the Waddell's that match.
66268, 142788, 104834, 159161, 201599, 128032, N53352

Fortunately, f142788 Waddell tested out to 67 markers, but guess what? He is 492=13. My spreadsheet turned on the red flag when I copied him in. Odds are quite good he is U106+ and can't be related to the L21 Stevens for shorter than 4000-5000 years. This Waddell also does not match the Stevens/Cooper/Price/Webb 41-1123 signature of 534<=14 413a<=22. I think that makes it fairly certain the Waddell's are accidental convergence or crossing of branches from a 37 marker view.

I hope everyone sees why testing out to 67 markers is critical in R1b1a2.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2012, 09:19:08 AM by Mikewww » Logged

R1b-L21>L513(DF1)>S6365>L705.2(&CTS11744,CTS6621)
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« Reply #55 on: August 31, 2012, 09:12:48 AM »

Aha! That is another problem with our cluster: we tend to get noise from certain U106ers. I hadn't researched other Waddells for a match. I just knew of him from several years ago (probably back when 37 markers were all I had).

I'm not going to bother trying to get my Waddell to do any additional testing. He really did tell me to quit bothering him. I doubt if he would even answer another email from me.

I wonder why I don't pick up that second Waddell on my Y-DNA matches page. Maybe he has his 37-marker matches turned off.
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Dubhthach
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« Reply #56 on: August 31, 2012, 09:27:41 AM »



Of course, you're right, but one always hopes for something really definitive out of a y-dna test result.

I guess that sort of precision will only come with whole genome testing.

As we continue to further refine what we know about the branches and twigs and leaf stems of L21, it prompts me to wonder about the mechanism or processes that produced the most populous of them. What crosses my mind is the old "Genghis Khan" or "Great Man" idea: the likelihood that populous clades are the product of the reproductive activities of a tribal chief or clan leader, some sort of "Great Man". That seems likelier to me than mere dumb luck. Tribal chiefs, especially those with many wives, concubines, etc., definitely enjoyed a considerable reproductive advantage over the average man.

Well been DF41+ is an improvement in that regards to been just DF13+, you are further down the road. Obviously with the DF41ers who are L744+ or L543+ even they have a more recent SNP. Still given that L21+ must encompass millions of men alive today been able to narrow it down to one section is at least some progress.

Given ages that we are starting to see DF41+ to me looks like insular-Celtic to me, obviously it could have arisen among speakers of Celtic languages on the continent, but so far direction is looking distinctively Insular at moment (leaving aside Stewarts and wether they truely have a Breton origin)

Often people use medieval Irish society as a proxy for Celtic society, in general this isn't really recommended as obvious with advent of Christianity in the 5th century there were some changes. Some have argued that there was a shift from a more general "tribal" setting to that of one based on lineages. Anyways here's an extract from K.W. Nicholls seminal work: "Gaelic and Gaelicised Ireland in the Middle Ages"

Quote
One of the most important phenomena in a clan-based society is that of expansion from the top downwards. The seventeenth-century Irish scholar and genealogist Dualtagh Mac Firbisigh remarked that 'as the sons and families of the rulers multiplied, so their subjects and followers were squeezed out and withered away; and this penomenon, the expansion of the ruling or dominant stocks at th expense of the remainder, is a normal feature in societies of this type. It has been observed of the modern Basotho of South Africa that 'there is a constant displacement of commoners by royals [i.e. members of the royal clan] and of collateral royals by the direct descendants of the ruling prince;, and this could have been said without adaptation , of any important Gaelic or Gaelicized lordship of late medieval Ireland.
In Fermanagh, for example the kingship of the Maguires began only with the accession of Donn Mór in 1282 and the ramification of the family - with the exception of one or two small and territorially unimportant septs - began with the sons of the same man. the spread of his descendants can be seen by the genealogical tract called Geinelaighe Fhearmanach; by 1607 they must have been in the possesion of at least three-quarters of the total soil of Fermanagh, having displaced or reduced the clans which had previously held it. The rate which an Irish clan could itself must not be underestimated. Tulrlough an fhíona O'Donnell, lord of Tirconnell (d. 1423) had eighteen sons (by ten different women) and fifty-nine grandsons in the male line. Mulmora O'Reilly, the lord of East Brefny, who died in 1566, had at least fifty-eight O'Reilly grandsons. Philip Maguire, lord of Fermanagh (d. 1395) had twenty sons by eight mothers, and we know of at least fifty grandsons. Oliver Burke of Tirawley (two of whose became Lower Mac William although he himself had never held that position) left at least thirty-eight grandsons in the male line.  Irish law drew no distinction in matters of inheritance between the legitimate and the illegitimate and permitted the affiliation of children by their mother's declaration (see Chapter 4), and the general sexual permissiveness of medieval Irish society must have allowed a rate of multiplication approaching that which is permitted by the polygyny practised in, for instance, the clan socieities of southern Africa already cited.

In such a society it's no wonder that major lineages could multiple hugely over a very small period.

It's a great book, goes through every aspect of Irish society up until it's destruction in the 17th century.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Gaelic-Gaelicized-Ireland-Middle-Ages/dp/1843510030/ref=sr_ob_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1346419568&sr=8-1
« Last Edit: August 31, 2012, 09:30:10 AM by Dubhthach » Logged
Heber
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« Reply #57 on: August 31, 2012, 11:43:49 AM »

Could McAlpin be a candidate for the "Great Man" in the case of DF41 although I thought he was supposed to be M222.

He matches the time and the place.
BYW, I agree with everything Paul mentioned above and it is a good explanation for why we get founder effect in Gaelic Clans.
 
Here is the official Genealogy of the MacTavish Clan (Stevens)
http://www.clanmactavish.org/documents/bloodline_of_chief_mactavish.pdf
Here is the Official Genealogy of Clan Macfie (Duffy)
http://www.clanmacfie.co.uk/clanhome/dr_earle_download.php
One of the common ancestors was McAlpin.
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Heber


 
R1b1a2a1a1b4  L459+ L21+ DF21+ DF13+ U198- U106- P66- P314.2- M37- M222- L96- L513- L48- L44- L4- L226- L2- L196- L195- L193- L192.1- L176.2- L165- L159.2- L148- L144- L130- L1-
Paternal L21* DF21


Maternal H1C1



rms2
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« Reply #58 on: August 31, 2012, 09:30:15 PM »

It wouldn't surprise me if DF41 were of Isles origin, but I hesitate to jump immediately to that conclusion based on the results we have thus far. The British Isles are very much over represented compared to the rest of Europe in the available y-dna databases. Don't get me wrong. I wish we had even more British Isles results, but we have far far more of them than y-dna test results from the Continent.

Cooper is the only one in my cluster that I have moved over to the DF41+ category. I figured I would wait until I get a DF41+ result (if I do) before moving my own entry and those of the other members of the cluster who belong to the R-L21 Plus Project.
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« Reply #59 on: September 01, 2012, 12:17:40 AM »

It wouldn't surprise me if DF41 were of Isles origin, but I hesitate to jump immediately to that conclusion based on the results we have thus far. The British Isles are very much over represented compared to the rest of Europe in the available y-dna databases. Don't get me wrong. I wish we had even more British Isles results, but we have far far more of them than y-dna test results from the Continent.

Cooper is the only one in my cluster that I have moved over to the DF41+ category. I figured I would wait until I get a DF41+ result (if I do) before moving my own entry and those of the other members of the cluster who belong to the R-L21 Plus Project.

I don't want to infringe on how you run things, but I encourage a fairly conservative approach that encourages people to validate with actual SNP testing. I've found I've been wrong on many predicted relationships and I've seen a few attempts at predictor tools that aren't right much of the time.
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« Reply #60 on: September 01, 2012, 03:06:56 PM »

It wouldn't surprise me if DF41 were of Isles origin, but I hesitate to jump immediately to that conclusion based on the results we have thus far. The British Isles are very much over represented compared to the rest of Europe in the available y-dna databases. Don't get me wrong. I wish we had even more British Isles results, but we have far far more of them than y-dna test results from the Continent.

Cooper is the only one in my cluster that I have moved over to the DF41+ category. I figured I would wait until I get a DF41+ result (if I do) before moving my own entry and those of the other members of the cluster who belong to the R-L21 Plus Project.

I don't want to infringe on how you run things, but I encourage a fairly conservative approach that encourages people to validate with actual SNP testing. I've found I've been wrong on many predicted relationships and I've seen a few attempts at predictor tools that aren't right much of the time.

That's probably the best way to do things, which is why I haven't moved myself or anyone else in the cluster to the DF41+ category, except Cooper, who has an actual DF41+ test result.

I think if I get a DF41+ result, however, it will be safe to move the few project members in the cluster to DF41+, since they are all such close matches to me.

The only members of my cluster who are also members of the project are Cooper, one of the Webbs, who matches me 63/67, my dad, my dad's second cousin, and me.

I will try to see if I can get Self and Chorn to join and order DF41.

I've got to say it's things like this that recharge my interest in genetic genealogy. I really enjoy talking about DF41. Maybe I am jumping the gun and assuming too much - like the idea that I will get a DF41+ result - but it is fun.
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OConnor
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« Reply #61 on: September 01, 2012, 03:53:33 PM »

Thanks, for your aggressiveness in testing, O'Connor. I would call you an explorer. Your leadership is helping us understand L21 and DF13.... and at least you moved to DF13+ so that's another step in the progression.

P312+ P25+ M343+ M269+ M207+ M173+ L21+ DF13+

Z255- Z253- SRY2627- P66- M73- M65- M37- M222- M18- M160- M153- M126- L96- L371- L195- L193- L192.1- L159.2- L144- L130- DF49- DF41- DF23- DF21- DF1-

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Perhaps I should test for L513 ?? would that make me DF13*(if L513-)

You can, if you want. I moved you to category "Ca. DF13* (L21>DF13; Negative for the known DF13+ subclades)" already. Maybe that's jumping the gun, technically, but I think at this point it isn't very likely you'll be L513+ or L555+.....

I think L513 is a moot point for fN12172 O'Connor by now anyway.
I don't know if this is recent or not, but I've got him as DF13+ L513- DF21- DF49- Z253- Z255- DF41- L144- L371- L96- L130- L192.1- L195- 3c1g

I count DF13+ L513- DF21- DF49- Z253- Z255- as DF13* (in the spreadsheet) and I will add DF41 to that soon. For DF13** status I add a requirement for  L144- L371- L555- L96- so you are only missing L555 if you are interested in that.

I sorted the L21 confirmed and suspected file by closest GD to you. No one is closer than GD=10 @67 but that's not all that lonely compared to some others.


fN12172   O'Connor   R-L21/DF13*   zzDF13unassigned   Ireland   DF13+ L513- DF21- DF49- Z253- Z255- DF41- L144- L371- L96- L130- L192.1- L195- 3c1g   0
yW8PNU   Bryant   zzL21predicted   513-1113-G   England, South West, Devonshire, Ashreigney      10
f58796   Emery    R-L21   1221   England   L21+   10
f173642   Gambrel   zzL21predicted   513-1113-G   England      10
f92605   Gamel   R-L21/DF13/L513   513-1113-G   zzzUnkOrigin   L513+   10
f20004   Murphy   zzL21predicted   1221   Ireland      10
f52762   Tiernan   R-L21/DF13/L513   513-1113-G   Ireland, Leinster, Co. Dublin, Naul   L513+ L577-   10
f116944   Churchman   R-L21   21-246-3016   England, East, Cambridgeshire   L21+ L192.1- 3c1g   11
f54142   Bayne   R-L21/DF13   zzDF13unassigned   England, Yorkshire and Humber, North Yorkshire, Nidderdale   DF13+ L144- L96-   12
yNZCX5   Emmons   R-L21   zzL21unassigned   England   L21+   12
fN1946   Gamble   R-L21/DF13/L513   513-1113-G   UK   L513+   12
f215927   Livingston   R-L21/DF13   zzDF13unassigned   Scotland   DF13+ L144- L96-   12
fN61764   Marsh   R-L21   zzL21unassigned   UK   L21+   12
f130820   Street   R-L21   zzL21unassigned   England   L21+   12
f38569   Birnbach(U152?)   zzL21predicted   513-1113-G   Poland, Galicia, Wildenthal (Nowy Dzikowiec)/Lipnica (Kolbuszowa)      13
f178236   Brooks   R-L21   2210   zzzUnkOrigin   L21+   13
fN82444   Case   R-L21/DF13   2210   Ireland, Ulster   DF13+ L459+ DF21-   13
f232198   Dempsey   R-L21   1221   Ireland   L21+   13
f192172   Eddy   R-L21   2210   zzzUnkOrigin   L21+   13
f121330   Egan   R-L21   9910   Wales   L21+   13
f195094   Gambill   R-L21/DF13/L513*   513-1113-G   UK   L513+ L193- L706.2- L69- L577- L908- L909-   13
f110603   Gorman   zzL21predicted   253- unassigned   Ireland, Leinster, Co. Waterford      13
f166686   Healy   R-L21   253-1223   Ireland   L21+   13
f96000   King   R-L21   zzL21unassigned   zzzUnkOrigin   L21+   13
f208276   MacKall   R-L21   zzL21unassigned   Scotland, Highland, Caithness   L21+   13
yW78QC   Mayfield   R-L21   1212   zzzUnkOrigin   L21+   13
f88917   McCorkle   zzL21predicted   21-5909-LS   Ireland      13
f63941   McKenzie   zzL21predicted   513-1113-E   Scotland      13
f28079   Miller   R-L21   zzL21unassigned   Scotland   L21+   13
f167501   Murphy   R-L21   1221   Ireland   L21+   13
f49964   Peak   R-L21   zzL21unassigned   Ireland, Ulster, Co. Down, Saintfield   L21+   13
f178336   Pell   R-L21   2510   zzzUnkOrigin   L21+   13
f192610   Powers   R-L21   253- unassigned   United Kingdom   L21+   13
f172278   Pry   R-L21   253-1716   Ireland   L21+   13
f75794   Rolph   R-L21   zzL21unassigned   England   L21+   13


Just beyond GD=13, at 14 you do have an Irwin (L555+) and Collins (predicted L555+) so L555 is within the realm of possibilities, though probably unlikely.

I looked for off modal signature for you and people in your closest GDs.  I found something that might be worth pursuing.

You have this and this is common in your GDs of 13 or less - 393=12 481=23 464c=16 464d=16. These aren't the most stable markers so I don't know how great of a signature this is.


fN12172   O'Connor   R-L21/DF13*   zzDF13unassigned
f58796   Emery    R-L21   1221
f20004   Murphy   zzL21predicted   1221
f178236   Brooks   R-L21   2210
f232198   Dempsey   R-L21   1221
f192172   Eddy   R-L21   2210


I need to relook at the variety STR signatures for 1221 and 2210 but you may fit in with these guys somehow. If we come up with something then perhaps your whole line of attack should be to get these guys to test deeper and perhaps order WTY for someone in the group.

.. back to L555. It is pretty unlikely you'll be L555+, but I'd never say never so it depends on your perspective on the hobby. I'm a little crazy so I have to know if I'm an asterisk or double asterisk guy so I always test for each possible terminal SNP with my current SNP status/descendancy tree.

Once upon a time, a citizen-scientist (of whom we all should be grateful for) told me to check out a particular SNP but he wasn't particularly positive about it so I stewed about it but eventually weighed the cost versus cable and restaurant bills and gave in.  Just after I ordered, the citizen-scientist came back to me and said he didn't think I'd be positive for it and it was probably a waste. He didn't know I had just ordered it. I felt sick but then just decided to forget about it.   Well, two weeks later I received a congratulatory message from an ISOGG rep. It seemed strange as it was not specific, but I thought I'd better check and sure enough I had new terminal SNP.  With a little (actually a lot) recruiting we are now up to 15 guys and I think we are on the Geno 2.0 chip so it was worth it.  

It's better to be lucky than good.

I just ordered L555 and L513.
 I'm waiting on 2 panels for my 111 str sequence.
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R1b1a2a1a1b4


R-DF13**(L21>DF13)
M42+, M45+, M526+, M74+, M89+, M9+, M94+, P108+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, P311+, P312+, P316+, M173+, M269+, M343+, P312+, L21+, DF13+, M207+, P25+, L11+, L138+, L141+, L15+, L150+, L16+, L23+, L51+, L52+, M168+, M173+, M207+, M213+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M343+, P69+, P9.1+, P97+, PK1+, SRY10831.1+, L21+, L226-, M37-, M222-, L96-, L193-, L144-, P66-, SRY2627-, M222-, DF49-, L371-, DF41-, L513-, L555-, L1335-, L1406-, Z251-, L526-, L130-, L144-, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195-, L96-, DF21-, Z255-, DF23-, DF1-, Z253-, M37-, M65-, M73-, M18-, M126-, M153-, M160-, P66-

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rms2
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« Reply #62 on: September 01, 2012, 03:55:59 PM »

@Mikewww

What do you think of Guittard, Ysearch ZNB3J?
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rms2
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« Reply #63 on: September 01, 2012, 04:01:16 PM »

@Mikewww

What do you think of Guittard, Ysearch ZNB3J?

Never mind. I think I see him in the P312 Project (kit 110855) in a regular P312* category, so he must have tested L21-. The name sounds familiar, too, so I think I remember him from that project.
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rms2
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« Reply #64 on: September 01, 2012, 04:02:12 PM »



I just ordered L555 and L513.
 I'm waiting on 2 panels for my 111 str sequence.

I would be surprised if you got a positive result on either one of those, but at least this way you'll know for sure.
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OConnor
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« Reply #65 on: September 04, 2012, 08:40:02 AM »

I may as well cover all the bases.
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R1b1a2a1a1b4


R-DF13**(L21>DF13)
M42+, M45+, M526+, M74+, M89+, M9+, M94+, P108+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, P311+, P312+, P316+, M173+, M269+, M343+, P312+, L21+, DF13+, M207+, P25+, L11+, L138+, L141+, L15+, L150+, L16+, L23+, L51+, L52+, M168+, M173+, M207+, M213+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M343+, P69+, P9.1+, P97+, PK1+, SRY10831.1+, L21+, L226-, M37-, M222-, L96-, L193-, L144-, P66-, SRY2627-, M222-, DF49-, L371-, DF41-, L513-, L555-, L1335-, L1406-, Z251-, L526-, L130-, L144-, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195-, L96-, DF21-, Z255-, DF23-, DF1-, Z253-, M37-, M65-, M73-, M18-, M126-, M153-, M160-, P66-

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rms2
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« Reply #66 on: September 04, 2012, 11:30:06 AM »

I may as well cover all the bases.

That's probably the best policy.
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OConnor
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« Reply #67 on: September 06, 2012, 07:57:47 AM »

I am L513-

now waiting on L555... due Oct 22.

They have to re-due some of my 111 upgrade.

Y-Refine67to111  Y-DNA86-93 Markers ...Batch 473, due 9/24/2012
This test failed to yield results for your sample. Your sample is being rerun now. Results from this round of testing are expected by this date. 

Y-Refine67to111  Y-DNA94-102 Markers ...Batch 473, due 9/24/2012
This test failed to yield results for your sample. Your sample is being rerun now. Results from this round of testing are expected by this date. 
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R1b1a2a1a1b4


R-DF13**(L21>DF13)
M42+, M45+, M526+, M74+, M89+, M9+, M94+, P108+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, P311+, P312+, P316+, M173+, M269+, M343+, P312+, L21+, DF13+, M207+, P25+, L11+, L138+, L141+, L15+, L150+, L16+, L23+, L51+, L52+, M168+, M173+, M207+, M213+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M343+, P69+, P9.1+, P97+, PK1+, SRY10831.1+, L21+, L226-, M37-, M222-, L96-, L193-, L144-, P66-, SRY2627-, M222-, DF49-, L371-, DF41-, L513-, L555-, L1335-, L1406-, Z251-, L526-, L130-, L144-, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195-, L96-, DF21-, Z255-, DF23-, DF1-, Z253-, M37-, M65-, M73-, M18-, M126-, M153-, M160-, P66-

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rms2
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« Reply #68 on: September 06, 2012, 07:59:52 AM »

Yeah, I think you will be DF13**.
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OConnor
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« Reply #69 on: September 07, 2012, 05:33:25 PM »

After my L555 results(if negative) maybe I should consider WTY ?
« Last Edit: September 07, 2012, 05:34:21 PM by OConnor » Logged

R1b1a2a1a1b4


R-DF13**(L21>DF13)
M42+, M45+, M526+, M74+, M89+, M9+, M94+, P108+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, P311+, P312+, P316+, M173+, M269+, M343+, P312+, L21+, DF13+, M207+, P25+, L11+, L138+, L141+, L15+, L150+, L16+, L23+, L51+, L52+, M168+, M173+, M207+, M213+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M343+, P69+, P9.1+, P97+, PK1+, SRY10831.1+, L21+, L226-, M37-, M222-, L96-, L193-, L144-, P66-, SRY2627-, M222-, DF49-, L371-, DF41-, L513-, L555-, L1335-, L1406-, Z251-, L526-, L130-, L144-, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195-, L96-, DF21-, Z255-, DF23-, DF1-, Z253-, M37-, M65-, M73-, M18-, M126-, M153-, M160-, P66-

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rms2
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« Reply #70 on: September 07, 2012, 07:37:15 PM »

After my L555 results(if negative) maybe I should consider WTY ?

Probably a good idea. It could help others, as well.
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OConnor
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« Reply #71 on: September 17, 2012, 01:31:27 PM »

I am DF13**

P312+ P25+ M343+ M269+ M207+ M173+ L21+ DF13+

 Z255- Z253- SRY2627- P66- M73- M65- M37- M222- M18- M160- M153- M126- L96- L555- L513- L371- L195- L193- L192.1- L159.2- L144- L130- DF49- DF41- DF23- DF21- DF1-
 

I'm waiting on 2 panels of my 111 upgrade.
Is the "Walk the Y" thing offered on my FTDNA homepage?  
« Last Edit: September 17, 2012, 01:33:47 PM by OConnor » Logged

R1b1a2a1a1b4


R-DF13**(L21>DF13)
M42+, M45+, M526+, M74+, M89+, M9+, M94+, P108+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, P311+, P312+, P316+, M173+, M269+, M343+, P312+, L21+, DF13+, M207+, P25+, L11+, L138+, L141+, L15+, L150+, L16+, L23+, L51+, L52+, M168+, M173+, M207+, M213+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M343+, P69+, P9.1+, P97+, PK1+, SRY10831.1+, L21+, L226-, M37-, M222-, L96-, L193-, L144-, P66-, SRY2627-, M222-, DF49-, L371-, DF41-, L513-, L555-, L1335-, L1406-, Z251-, L526-, L130-, L144-, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195-, L96-, DF21-, Z255-, DF23-, DF1-, Z253-, M37-, M65-, M73-, M18-, M126-, M153-, M160-, P66-

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Mark Jost
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« Reply #72 on: September 17, 2012, 02:20:28 PM »

Micheal,

You can go to the L21 WTY Goals web page and there you will find application link. Let me know if you have any questions.

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/RL21WTY2009/default.aspx?section=goals

MJost
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148326
Pos: Z245 L459 L21 DF13**
Neg: DF23 L513 L96 L144 Z255 Z253 DF21 DF41 (Z254 P66 P314.2 M37 M222  L563 L526 L226 L195 L193 L192.1 L159.2 L130 DF63 DF5 DF49)
WTYNeg: L555 L371 (L9/L10 L370 L302/L319.1 L554 L564 L577 P69 L626 L627 L643 L679)
on the edge
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« Reply #73 on: September 17, 2012, 04:17:01 PM »

On the goals page of the WTY site it states that the cost is $750 whereas on the application form it states $950. Which is the correct price anyone?

Micheal,

You can go to the L21 WTY Goals web page and there you will find application link. Let me know if you have any questions.

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/RL21WTY2009/default.aspx?section=goals

MJost
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Mark Jost
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« Reply #74 on: September 17, 2012, 04:51:29 PM »

The Form is more recent and states the correct price. I will edit the web page to the correct amount.

MJost
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148326
Pos: Z245 L459 L21 DF13**
Neg: DF23 L513 L96 L144 Z255 Z253 DF21 DF41 (Z254 P66 P314.2 M37 M222  L563 L526 L226 L195 L193 L192.1 L159.2 L130 DF63 DF5 DF49)
WTYNeg: L555 L371 (L9/L10 L370 L302/L319.1 L554 L564 L577 P69 L626 L627 L643 L679)
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