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Author Topic: About E-V65 and Jewish ancestry  (Read 4471 times)
Maliclavelli
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« on: August 02, 2012, 07:47:31 AM »

This is what is said by Wikipedia about E-V65:

E1b1b1a1d (E-V65)
This sub-clade, equivalent to the previously classified "beta cluster", is found in high levels in the Maghreb regions of far northern Africa. Cruciani et al. (2007) report levels of about 20% amongst Libyan Arab lineages, and about 30% amongst Moroccan Arabs. It appears to be less common amongst Berbers, but still present in levels of >10%. The authors suggest a North African origin for this lineage. In Europe, only a few individuals were found in Italy and Greece. The results from the article can be summarized as follows...
E-V65   YCAIIa   YCAIIb   DYS413a   DYS413b   DYS19   DYS391   DYS393   DYS439   DYS460   DYS461   A10
modal   19   21   21   23   13   10   13   10   10   11   13
min   19   20   20   22   11   10   13   10   9   9   12
max   21   21   22   23   14   11   14   11   11   12   13
number   38   38   38   38   38   38   38   38   38   38   38
                                 
Capelli et al. (2009) studied the beta cluster in Europe. They found small amounts in Southern Italy, but also traces in Cantabria, Portugal and Galicia, with Cantabria having the highest level in Europe in their study, at 3.1% (5 out of 161 people).

•   •   
Then the value of DYS439 is given modal=10, max=11. This Jew from the Jewish E project at FTDNA has these values and SNPs:

N19276   E1b1b1a1d E-V65 L18+, M107-, M123-, M136-, M148-, M165-, M224-, M281-, M34-, M35.1+, M78+, M81-, M96+, P2+, V12-, V13-, V19-, V22-, V27-, V32-, V36-, V65+

E1b1b1a4
N19276   Germany E1b1b1a1d
13 24 13 10 16-18 11 12 12 12 12 29 14 9-9 11 11 27 14 21 32 15-16-16-17 10 10 19-21 15 12 16 20 32-34 11 10

Then there are without any doubt some E-V65 with DYS439=12 or more. The case is that this high value is the most diffused amongst the European E-V65, and this, once more, put the problem of the true origin of this Jew, whether from Middle East or for an introgression from one European man.
We shouldn’t forget that one E-V65 was amongst the 51 Tuscans tested by 1KGP, and the other was one Colombian, someone certainly thinks from Spain and from a Sephardic Jew. But, also this time, could have happened the other way around.
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Maliclavelli


YDNA: R-S12460


MtDNA: K1a1b1e

Maliclavelli
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« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2012, 12:05:41 PM »

Etyopis replies on eng.molgen:

It appears now that E-V65 is more related to E-V12, than it is to E-V13 or E-V22, according to strict SNP based phylogeny. E-V12's distribution spans for the most part the Northeastern section of Africa, from Egypt to Ethiopia, and does not have much of a presence in the Levant or Europe, the case for E-V13 and E-V22 is rather different however, more of the reverse in fact, especially for E-V13.

And this is my answer:

Many thanks Etyopis for your replay, but I wasn’t investigating the ancient origin of E-V65 and of the other subclades of E-M78 (here you know that nothing is certain so far, and I don’t give for certain either the origin of man in Africa (“Out of Africa”) or of haplogroup E). Africa has so far the highest presence of hg. E, and also some ancient clades, but we haven’t so far certainty of this, I do mean aDNA etc. And you know that the “ancestor” of E-M78, i.e. E-V68, has been found in Sardinia and probably it is there from many thousands of years.
I was discussing about some recent migrations and introgressions, like those examined by Capelli et al. 2009. E-V65 may be present in Europe long before the supposed North African introgressions and, specifically, the case of this Jew I cited above: it isn’t said that he is of Middle Eastern origin, he could be of European one.
Any case should be understood in its own.

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Maliclavelli


YDNA: R-S12460


MtDNA: K1a1b1e

eman
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« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2013, 03:20:19 AM »

very nice post i like this forum
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