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Author Topic: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0  (Read 29284 times)
k.o.gran
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« Reply #25 on: July 28, 2012, 04:28:35 PM »

A french guy who wanted to buy the Geno 2.0 test on the genographic project site, got the following message:
Quote
This item cannot be shipped to France.
What is the problem ?

Not sure, but maybe he chose the US kit and not the "international" kit?
http://shop.nationalgeographic.com/ngs/category/genographic-kits-international-delivery
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secherbernard
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« Reply #26 on: July 28, 2012, 04:37:02 PM »

Note sure, but maybe he chose the US kit and not the "international" kit?
http://shop.nationalgeographic.com/ngs/category/genographic-kits-international-delivery
Ok, I told him about this point.
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YDNA: R-DF13+ L69+ DYS464X: cccc.3
mtDNA: U6a7a1
mtDNA of my father: U5a2c
YDNA of my maternal uncle: I1*
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Ysearch of my maternal uncle: CEC59

stoneman
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« Reply #27 on: July 28, 2012, 04:41:03 PM »

Hello Miles
Did you know  there are three unique SNPS discovered downstream of M222. I wrote to someone on another forum six months ago and told them that I reckoned that there were at least six SNPs downstream of M222. He thought that I was talking BS. I have to wait for thee more to be found and then I can write back to him.





Well, I guess it's not as good as I thought, but I don't really care about finding relations or recent ancestry. Not that I wouldn't like to know who my mystery, female 2nd cousin is on 23andMe, but I know where my family is from on all counts. Unless some exotic person was an NPE in Ireland, Scotland, Quebec or France. That would have already showed up on my autosomal population results, though, I guess. I have a high Caucasus score, so perhaps an Armenian guy or gal.

If this stuff can help find when and from where people came to The Isles back in the Bronze Age, I'd be pleased. I'm probably being an idiot again  :)
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Heber
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« Reply #28 on: July 28, 2012, 05:12:15 PM »

A french guy who wanted to buy the Geno 2.0 test on the genographic project site, got the following message:
Quote
This item cannot be shipped to France.
What is the problem ?

You need to select the International kit. It will add additional shipping charges.
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Heber


 
R1b1a2a1a1b4  L459+ L21+ DF21+ DF13+ U198- U106- P66- P314.2- M37- M222- L96- L513- L48- L44- L4- L226- L2- L196- L195- L193- L192.1- L176.2- L165- L159.2- L148- L144- L130- L1-
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gtc
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« Reply #29 on: July 29, 2012, 01:53:55 AM »

A french guy who wanted to buy the Geno 2.0 test on the genographic project site, got the following message:
Quote
This item cannot be shipped to France.
What is the problem ?

I have had a few of offline discussions about DNA testing with a few French nationals. They tell me that under French law only a court may order a paternity test. I don't have a copy of the black letter law to study but I gather it says nothing specifically about DNA testing for genealogical purposes, nonetheless French citizens seem to interpret the private paternity testing ban as umbrella law for all forms of DNA testing.

So, it seems that National Genographic is taking the legal view.

Thankfully, a number of French citizens have managed to be STR and SNP tested and have posted their results in the various projects.

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Y-DNA: R1b-Z12* (R1b1a2a1a1a3b2b1a1a1) GGG-GF Ireland (roots reportedly Anglo-Norman)
mtDNA: I3b (FMS) Maternal lines Irish
secherbernard
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« Reply #30 on: July 29, 2012, 02:45:54 AM »

OK, the problem is solved.  The french guy was wrong and chose the  US kit. When he chooses the european kit, all is right. Thanks a lot to Kai and Heber.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2012, 02:49:24 AM by secherbernard » Logged

YDNA: R-DF13+ L69+ DYS464X: cccc.3
mtDNA: U6a7a1
mtDNA of my father: U5a2c
YDNA of my maternal uncle: I1*
Ysearch and Mitosearch: UE9BU
Ysearch of my maternal uncle: CEC59

secherbernard
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« Reply #31 on: July 29, 2012, 02:48:38 AM »

I have had a few of offline discussions about DNA testing with a few French nationals. They tell me that under French law only a court may order a paternity test. I don't have a copy of the black letter law to study but I gather it says nothing specifically about DNA testing for genealogical purposes, nonetheless French citizens seem to interpret the private paternity testing ban as umbrella law for all forms of DNA testing.

So, it seems that National Genographic is taking the legal view.

Thankfully, a number of French citizens have managed to be STR and SNP tested and have posted their results in the various projects.
Thanks gtc, you are right about paternity DNA testing, but the Geno 2.0 test is not a paternity test.
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YDNA: R-DF13+ L69+ DYS464X: cccc.3
mtDNA: U6a7a1
mtDNA of my father: U5a2c
YDNA of my maternal uncle: I1*
Ysearch and Mitosearch: UE9BU
Ysearch of my maternal uncle: CEC59

secherbernard
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« Reply #32 on: July 29, 2012, 04:51:14 AM »

I don't have a copy of the black letter law to study
http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichCode.do;jsessionid=004CBD3DCCA0F482A837DCD60D65F317.tpdjo12v_1?idSectionTA=LEGISCTA000006136513&cidTexte=LEGITEXT000006070721&dateTexte=20120728
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YDNA: R-DF13+ L69+ DYS464X: cccc.3
mtDNA: U6a7a1
mtDNA of my father: U5a2c
YDNA of my maternal uncle: I1*
Ysearch and Mitosearch: UE9BU
Ysearch of my maternal uncle: CEC59

rms2
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« Reply #33 on: July 29, 2012, 08:46:06 AM »

What are the benefits of Geno 2.0 to someone who is an old, established FTDNA customer?

Are there any compelling reasons to spend $200 on it, if it does not replace Family Finder, the FGS, and is not up to date on the very latest y-dna SNPs? I'm beyond Deep Clade type tests unless and until they are tailored to me personally and consist of an array of SNPs I haven't yet tested but with which I have some likelihood of a positive result. Can't I just keep going as I currently am, ordering SNPs a la carte?

I might have missed something. I'll admit I haven't waded through all the commentary on it at the various links.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2012, 08:46:45 AM by rms2 » Logged

Mark Jost
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« Reply #34 on: July 29, 2012, 10:11:28 AM »

Why would this be ever have enacted by a certain country?

'The examination of genetic characteristics of a person can not be undertaken for medical or scientific research.'
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148326
Pos: Z245 L459 L21 DF13**
Neg: DF23 L513 L96 L144 Z255 Z253 DF21 DF41 (Z254 P66 P314.2 M37 M222  L563 L526 L226 L195 L193 L192.1 L159.2 L130 DF63 DF5 DF49)
WTYNeg: L555 L371 (L9/L10 L370 L302/L319.1 L554 L564 L577 P69 L626 L627 L643 L679)
gtc
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« Reply #35 on: July 29, 2012, 11:52:55 AM »

Merci beaucoup, secherbernard!

Why would this be ever have enacted by a certain country?

'The examination of genetic characteristics of a person can not be undertaken for medical or scientific research.'

I read that numerous times and thought my translation must be faulty.
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Y-DNA: R1b-Z12* (R1b1a2a1a1a3b2b1a1a1) GGG-GF Ireland (roots reportedly Anglo-Norman)
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secherbernard
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« Reply #36 on: July 29, 2012, 12:46:26 PM »

Why would this be ever have enacted by a certain country?

'The examination of genetic characteristics of a person can not be undertaken for medical or scientific research.'
The french law says the contrary:  'The examination of genetic characteristics of a person can be undertaken only for medical or scientific research.'
« Last Edit: July 29, 2012, 12:48:12 PM by secherbernard » Logged

YDNA: R-DF13+ L69+ DYS464X: cccc.3
mtDNA: U6a7a1
mtDNA of my father: U5a2c
YDNA of my maternal uncle: I1*
Ysearch and Mitosearch: UE9BU
Ysearch of my maternal uncle: CEC59

k.o.gran
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« Reply #37 on: July 29, 2012, 12:57:28 PM »

Why would this be ever have enacted by a certain country?

'The examination of genetic characteristics of a person can not be undertaken for medical or scientific research.'
The french law says the contrary:  'The examination of genetic characteristics of a person can be undertaken only for medical or scientific research.'

That makes Geno 2.0 legal. :)
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thetick
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« Reply #38 on: July 29, 2012, 01:16:56 PM »

due to the number of offered SNPs there is a reasonable chance that one will be able to identify a SNP, say M365.xx, which help define your paternal line within a genealogical time frame.  In other words multiple occurrences of a SNP (L176.1, L172.2,......) will be identified and some of these will end up being private to a specific line and of great genealogical value.  There also means there will be some value in having cousins tested to zero in on the age of specific SNP(s) that appear to be private to your lineage.

There is "some" value but just don't see it worth the $200 or even $170 with the $30 off.  I think the case you outlined above would be quite rare, but certainly possible.   Most would be better off getting more FF,  23andme, YDNA,  or even intelligently chosen individual SNP tests.  I'm SRY-2627(via 23andme) and very far from L165, 111 YDNA STRs, FF, and mtDNA FGS  so I see no value at all for me with this test.

Geno 2.0 would be an excellent test for someone with no previous DNA test or only the Geno 1.0 test.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2012, 01:20:25 PM by thetick » Logged

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Mark Jost
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« Reply #39 on: July 29, 2012, 01:41:17 PM »

Why would this be ever have enacted by a certain country?

'The examination of genetic characteristics of a person can not be undertaken for medical or scientific research.'
The french law says the contrary:  'The examination of genetic characteristics of a person can be undertaken only for medical or scientific research.'

Looks like I asssumed that translator work correctly in the modern world.

I do not speak French and used a Google website Translator
http://tinyurl.com/chtw5c6

which showed under 16-10:
The examination of genetic characteristics of a person can not be undertaken for medical or scientific research.

but when I used text translators, Bing and Google translator which both translates for the French sentence only as shown in French:

L'examen des caractéristiques génétiques d'une personne ne peut être entrepris qu'à des fins médicales ou de recherche scientifique.

Translated to English

Bing:
Examination of the genetic characteristics of a person may be undertaken only for medical or scientific research.

Google:
Examination of the genetic characteristics of a person may be undertaken only for medical or scientific research.

I sent this error to Google.

MJost

Edited to employ TinyURL (no other changes). rms2
« Last Edit: July 31, 2012, 06:01:38 AM by rms2 » Logged

148326
Pos: Z245 L459 L21 DF13**
Neg: DF23 L513 L96 L144 Z255 Z253 DF21 DF41 (Z254 P66 P314.2 M37 M222  L563 L526 L226 L195 L193 L192.1 L159.2 L130 DF63 DF5 DF49)
WTYNeg: L555 L371 (L9/L10 L370 L302/L319.1 L554 L564 L577 P69 L626 L627 L643 L679)
Heber
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« Reply #40 on: July 30, 2012, 05:51:19 PM »

Here is an update on CeCe's blog on the SNPs which will be used in Geno 2.0, from a corresponsance she had with Dr. Spencer Wells. The deep sequencing in Sardinian populations should give us good insights into early European populations.
 
"...the Y-markers on the Geno 2.0 chip come from a variety of sources.  The majority are entirely new, and are drawn from the work of our team and collaborators:

~3500 from Chris Tyler-Smith, drawn primarily from 1K Genomes data
 
~3500 from Li Jin, discovered by deep sequencing in East Asian populations from a variety of haplogroups
 
~5000 from Paolo Francalacci and Sergio Tofanelli, discovered by deep sequencing in Sardinian populations from a variety of haplogroups

The rest are drawn from the ISOGG tree, FTDNA, Hammer and other available sources.  The final number of working assays for the rare markers (and thus those most likely to be of interest to the genealogical community) is yet to be determined, as we simply don't have access to all of the the positive controls necessary.  This is where the genetic genealogy community can really help, by vetting the rare markers in samples with known phylogenetic positions... I see this as an opportunity for the community to take an active role in helping us to build the definitive Y-chromosome tree.  It will also likely yield many markers with extraordinary specificity for family-defining lineages that will be important for genetic genealogy."

http://www.yourgeneticgenealogist.com/
« Last Edit: July 30, 2012, 05:54:46 PM by Heber » Logged

Heber


 
R1b1a2a1a1b4  L459+ L21+ DF21+ DF13+ U198- U106- P66- P314.2- M37- M222- L96- L513- L48- L44- L4- L226- L2- L196- L195- L193- L192.1- L176.2- L165- L159.2- L148- L144- L130- L1-
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Maliclavelli
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« Reply #41 on: July 31, 2012, 04:39:13 AM »

That something was brewing about Sardinian DNA (and I thank Richard Rocca for signalling this to me) I understood when Viola Grugni et al. (PloS ONE, July 2012) didn’t publish the Sardinian data amongst all the others, and I wrote about this. But the data of the paper of Grugni were 520 Sardinians and here we are speaking of 5,000. Anyway also 500 would be many: tenfold the Tuscans of the 1KGP.
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Maliclavelli


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Heber
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« Reply #42 on: July 31, 2012, 05:58:49 AM »

That something was brewing about Sardinian DNA (and I thank Richard Rocca for signalling this to me) I understood when Viola Grugni et al. (PloS ONE, July 2012) didn’t publish the Sardinian data amongst all the others, and I wrote about this. But the data of the paper of Grugni were 520 Sardinians and here we are speaking of 5,000. Anyway also 500 would be many: tenfold the Tuscans of the 1KGP.

Perhaps we can find a close match for Otzi.
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Heber


 
R1b1a2a1a1b4  L459+ L21+ DF21+ DF13+ U198- U106- P66- P314.2- M37- M222- L96- L513- L48- L44- L4- L226- L2- L196- L195- L193- L192.1- L176.2- L165- L159.2- L148- L144- L130- L1-
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Maliclavelli
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« Reply #43 on: July 31, 2012, 07:42:52 AM »

The link with Oetzi, at least with his Y, is certain, being this haplogroup to-day above all in South Corsica and North Sardinia. But Sardinia will say much more about what is for me the "Italian Refugium".
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Maliclavelli


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razyn
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« Reply #44 on: July 31, 2012, 09:59:13 AM »

But the data of the paper of Grugni were 520 Sardinians and here we are speaking of 5,000.

I've read about this elsewhere and the same inference was drawn, that 5,000 Sardinians were sampled, and I was frankly puzzled about why anyone would care that much about such a small population, given that the tests cost money.  But what Spencer Wells actually said to Roberta was that 5,000 of the selected markers were found by sampling Sardinians.  It could have been three or four Sardinians, for all we know (if they got the markers from full genome sequencing, or something).  This is an exaggeration, but only to make the point, I believe we don't know the number of people -- only the number of different markers found there.
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Heber
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« Reply #45 on: July 31, 2012, 10:36:01 AM »

Good point. It is clear from the quote that he is talking about Y Markers and not individuals sampled.
However given that the Sardinian populations appear to be a proxy for Early Europeans, I think we will be able to learn a lot from from this data. Combined with the fact that some of the best preserved and tested aDNA In Europe (Otzi) matches the Sardinian signature should provide insights into early Europen migrations. I am particularly interested if it will pick up the early R1b Neolithic Meditteranean migrations from Anatolia To Crete to Iberia via Italy. This of courses lead to downstream M269, L23, L51, L11, P312 and L21.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2012, 10:48:54 AM by Heber » Logged

Heber


 
R1b1a2a1a1b4  L459+ L21+ DF21+ DF13+ U198- U106- P66- P314.2- M37- M222- L96- L513- L48- L44- L4- L226- L2- L196- L195- L193- L192.1- L176.2- L165- L159.2- L148- L144- L130- L1-
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Richard Rocca
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« Reply #46 on: July 31, 2012, 11:23:34 AM »

Given its propensity for insular founder effects (see I-M26 and G-L91), Sardinia is not the ideal place for finding lower level SNPs. Having said that, I think Sardinia's insular nature could also be of great benefit. If some downstream markers that are common in continental Europe are missing in Sardinia, we could possibly tie it back to specific migratory events. Below U152, I'm curious to see if any of the three main subclades (L2, Z36 and Z56) are missing.
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secherbernard
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« Reply #47 on: August 01, 2012, 03:13:44 AM »

* 400 WTY and 500 Y Samples were tested as proof of concept -- 5,291 new nodes found to add to the haplotree
How to know if my WTY sample was tested as proof of concept, and then how to get the results ?
Many of the WTY samples used were internal, meaning not customers.  Only 23 public WTY samples were used. See here: http://dna-explained.com/2012/07/31/geno-2-0-wty-mtdna-full-sequence-participants-and-more/
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YDNA: R-DF13+ L69+ DYS464X: cccc.3
mtDNA: U6a7a1
mtDNA of my father: U5a2c
YDNA of my maternal uncle: I1*
Ysearch and Mitosearch: UE9BU
Ysearch of my maternal uncle: CEC59

Heber
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« Reply #48 on: August 01, 2012, 10:38:20 AM »

* 400 WTY and 500 Y Samples were tested as proof of concept -- 5,291 new nodes found to add to the haplotree
How to know if my WTY sample was tested as proof of concept, and then how to get the results ?
Many of the WTY samples used were internal, meaning not customers.  Only 23 public WTY samples were used. See here: http://dna-explained.com/2012/07/31/geno-2-0-wty-mtdna-full-sequence-participants-and-more/

Answers from the Spencer Wells interview:

"Q: Will the Walk Through the Y customers whose samples were used for vetting the new chip receive their results?

A: Yes, the WTY and whole-mtDNA genome customers used in the validation process will receive their results when the results section of the website goes live for all Geno 2.0 participants this fall. As I said in the story, your data belongs to you.  There will be no charge to them for this, and we hope that they enjoy the new Geno 2.0 experience and will become cheerleaders for the project."

http://www.yourgeneticgenealogist.com/2012/07/more-information-from-spencer-wells-on.html
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Heber


 
R1b1a2a1a1b4  L459+ L21+ DF21+ DF13+ U198- U106- P66- P314.2- M37- M222- L96- L513- L48- L44- L4- L226- L2- L196- L195- L193- L192.1- L176.2- L165- L159.2- L148- L144- L130- L1-
Paternal L21* DF21


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gtc
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« Reply #49 on: August 01, 2012, 10:42:41 AM »



Answers from the Spencer Wells interview:

"Q: Will the Walk Through the Y customers whose samples were used for vetting the new chip receive their results?

A: Yes, the WTY and whole-mtDNA genome customers used in the validation process will receive their results when the results section of the website goes live for all Geno 2.0 participants this fall. As I said in the story, your data belongs to you.  There will be no charge to them for this, and we hope that they enjoy the new Geno 2.0 experience and will become cheerleaders for the project."

http://www.yourgeneticgenealogist.com/2012/07/more-information-from-spencer-wells-on.html

I'm still not clear on this. I'm an FTDNA FMS customer but how will I know if my data was used? Do I have to be a customer of both FTDNA and NG to find out?
« Last Edit: August 01, 2012, 10:45:47 AM by gtc » Logged

Y-DNA: R1b-Z12* (R1b1a2a1a1a3b2b1a1a1) GGG-GF Ireland (roots reportedly Anglo-Norman)
mtDNA: I3b (FMS) Maternal lines Irish
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