K1d, K1e, K1f from the Italian Refugium

[Maliclavelli]

I have said many times that the mtDNA is more useful to demonstrate migrations. I have found on SMGF, but probably they are known also elsewhere, some haplotypes of K1e (but the Isles, like Central North Europe till Poland, has also many K1d: more than 20 on SMGF) which are linked to that of Ötzi, K1f, and likely came from the Italian Refugium, where the haplotype of Ötzi remained:

73G 152C 263G 309.1C 315.1C 524.1A 524.1C 16140C 16224C 16311C 16519C
(Reeves, England, but mother (unknowm) Wales)

73G 152C 263G 309.1C 315.1C 524.1A 524.1C 16140C 16224C 16260T 16311C 16519C
(USA)

73G  150T152C 263G 309.1C 315.1C 524.1A 524.1C 16140C 16224C 16311C 16519C
(Sykes, USA ; Tynes, USA)

[Maliclavelli]

On eng.molgen zaender wrote after quoting  my “linked to that of Ötzi, K1f, and likely came from the Italian Refugium, where the haplotype of Ötzi remained”:

likely is not proven. The different refuge areas are associated to the peak of the last ice age and findings in Oberkassel/Rhinelande, dated to 14000 bp clearly show the beginning of Europe's repeopling. The oldest confirmations about the occurence of K all are around 5 to 6 kybp, two mummies, one in the Pyrenees, several graveyards there, where K is the 3rd strongest HG after H and U, the graves in Eulau.
I see a gap of 8 to 9 kybp between the starting from the Refugiums and the confirmed findings of K. We still don't know, how many immigration waves in this gap we have to face and which is associated with the arrival of U8 and K in Europe. Their first step may have been in North Italy, but resuming an unbroken continuum is mere speculation.
(written in the refugium above Diano Marina/Liguria)


Zaender, I appreciate your posting. What you say is trustworthy, and I agree with you that we need proofs, and mine are only theories, but I think done “  grano salis”, how said that soldier you have chosen for your avatar in forcing a  German girl. Anyway if it did happen many times, you Germans should have many Roman Y-s.

To your question I could answer that the gap between the Italian Refugium (I do mean that of the Younger Dryas and not that of LGM) is explained also by Behar 2012b by the very wide CI of these haplogroups. We wouldn’t understand why a subclade of K1* has become K1d and K1e many thousands of years later than K1a, K1b and K1c. Anyway I am very glad to discuss seriously all this stuff with you and every other interested in it.

Glad that you are passing your holidays in Italy, in spite of the euro’s issues and the goals kept in this last European Championship, not different from what has always happened in the past.

Good Holidays. I am in the 40° of my home, not so close to the Tyrrhenian shore.