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inver2b1
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« Reply #75 on: July 18, 2012, 04:45:53 PM »

I only tend to follow what's happening in the M223 group (you can see form Ken Nortvedts web site below a lot has changed) and then I focus on M284 onwards. The only surnames I know that there seems to be a pattern to (from reading on DNA Forums) is that old one with O'Grady, O'Driscoll and Keane.
One thing I noticed in the M223 group for the L126 grouping is you had a few surnames like Gilchrist, Gillespie, Malone and mine that come from a monastic/religious background. I thought it interesting but I might just be seeing a pattern where none exists.

http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net/
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« Reply #76 on: July 18, 2012, 05:03:08 PM »

U106 is at least 6000 ybp and there was more than one migration of this haplogroup into Ireland. Why does some people have a problem with that?
It is the same for all the other haplogroups in Ireland.

I don't think U106 is quite that old but it could be. I don't know when the first U106 person (that left an extant lineage) entered Ireland.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2012, 05:03:20 PM by Mikewww » Logged

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« Reply #77 on: July 18, 2012, 05:09:32 PM »

Yes the modern Irish really are an admixture.
My understanding of the principal inbound and outbound migrations is as follows:

Inbound
1) Mesolithic Settlers
2) Neolithic Settlers
3) Megalithic People
4) Celtic People
       Atlantic Celts
       River Celts
       Central European Celts
       Copper, Bronze, Iron Ages
5) Vikings
6) Normans
7) Anglo Saxons
8) Plantations (Ulster, Leinster, Munster)
9) Huguenot French
10) Palatine Germans
11) Modern Migrants (Polish, etc.)

Outbound
1) Dal Riada
2) Celtic Monastic Movement
3) Viking Slaves
4) Flight of the Earls
5) Wild Geese
7) Scots Irish Emigration
6) The Great Famine
8) 20th C Migration
9) 21st C Migration

Lots of opportunities for I, J, R1b, L21, U152, U106 and others to mix.
My objective is to identify the traces of these migrations.
I have tried to illustrate it on the following boards (work in progress).

http://pinterest.com/gerardcorcoran/  

I've seen that label before. Who were the "River Celts?"

BTW, since you are going way back, I've got another potential out migration for you.  I think there were maritime people that hit the British Isles, including Ireland, and then might have went on to Scandinavia.  We have Bell Beaker sites in the Isles and in Scandinavia.  Perhaps England was a cross roads for these folks.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2012, 05:14:14 PM by Mikewww » Logged

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Heber
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« Reply #78 on: July 18, 2012, 06:44:41 PM »

Yes the modern Irish really are an admixture.
My understanding of the principal inbound and outbound migrations is as follows:

Inbound
1) Mesolithic Settlers
2) Neolithic Settlers
3) Megalithic People
4) Celtic People
       Atlantic Celts
       River Celts
       Central European Celts
       Copper, Bronze, Iron Ages
5) Vikings
6) Normans
7) Anglo Saxons
8) Plantations (Ulster, Leinster, Munster)
9) Huguenot French
10) Palatine Germans
11) Modern Migrants (Polish, etc.)

Outbound
1) Dal Riada
2) Celtic Monastic Movement
3) Viking Slaves
4) Flight of the Earls
5) Wild Geese
7) Scots Irish Emigration
6) The Great Famine
8) 20th C Migration
9) 21st C Migration

Lots of opportunities for I, J, R1b, L21, U152, U106 and others to mix.
My objective is to identify the traces of these migrations.
I have tried to illustrate it on the following boards (work in progress).

http://pinterest.com/gerardcorcoran/  

I've seen that label before. Who were the "River Celts?"

BTW, since you are going way back, I've got another potential out migration for you.  I think there were maritime people that hit the British Isles, including Ireland, and then might have went on to Scandinavia.  We have Bell Beaker sites in the Isles and in Scandinavia.  Perhaps England was a cross roads for these folks.

The Atlantic Celts were those who migrated along the Atlantic facade, Tartessos, Galicia,  Morbihan, Isles and are associated with L21. These were Copper and Bronze age Q Celtic.
The River Celts are those who migrated from the source of the Great Rivers, Halstatt, Danube, Rhine, Rhone, Loire and are associated with U152. These were Iron Age P Celtic.
The Central European Celts are those who migrated from the Pontiac Steppe, Scythia, Thracia and are a admixture of U152 and U106.

I think your Bell Beaker sites in the Isles and Scandanavia were part of the Atlantic Celtic migration.
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stoneman
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« Reply #79 on: July 19, 2012, 07:24:39 AM »

If you could take a look at Clinton Platt's U106 tree then you would get a better understanding of the age of that group. The TMRCA of Z8 SNP is supposed to be around 2,400.




U106 is at least 6000 ybp and there was more than one migration of this haplogroup into Ireland. Why does some people have a problem with that?
It is the same for all the other haplogroups in Ireland.

I don't think U106 is quite that old but it could be. I don't know when the first U106 person (that left an extant lineage) entered Ireland.
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stoneman
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« Reply #80 on: July 19, 2012, 07:28:36 AM »

Irish surnames have multiple origins.Dont doubt yourself because of your snp status.You're a true son of the Gael and be proud of it.





I'm I-L126 which is down stream of M284; I match two people on FTDNA with variations of the surname McMillan, my name is Mullen and as far as I can make out both surname share the same gaelic origin (McMaolain/O'Maolain).
One of my matches (according to FTDNA we most likely have our common ancestor at 24 generations) can trace his line to Scotland to about 1400 with no one arriivng in Ireland and he has ancestors in the US (he's more or less in the epicentre of Scots irish country in the US) who used the name McMullen.
My other match (at roughly 20 generations) only has an idea going back to the 1800's in the US (he also has someone using McMullen).
According to our family lore the most distant ancestor we know of fled from Mayo to Donegal for taking part in the 1798 rebellion (supposedly his ancestors were riven from Donegal to Mayo after the plantation). Long story short, would many catholics have come over during the plantation?
Also when I look at surnames in the M223 project those in L126 seem heavily weighted towards names you would associate with Scotland and the plantation but there is a few you could call more irish gaelic, but the wide range of surnames suggest the adoptions of surnames were very haphazzard.
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OConnor
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« Reply #81 on: July 19, 2012, 08:29:07 AM »

When Ireland was Continental
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-18687504?goback=.gde_157795_member_130235946

I wonder what genetic groups the first people were, on the newly formed island of Ireland?
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rms2
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« Reply #82 on: July 19, 2012, 08:50:15 AM »

Irish surnames have multiple origins.Dont doubt yourself because of your snp status.You're a true son of the Gael and be proud of it.





I'm I-L126 which is down stream of M284; I match two people on FTDNA with variations of the surname McMillan, my name is Mullen and as far as I can make out both surname share the same gaelic origin (McMaolain/O'Maolain).
One of my matches (according to FTDNA we most likely have our common ancestor at 24 generations) can trace his line to Scotland to about 1400 with no one arriivng in Ireland and he has ancestors in the US (he's more or less in the epicentre of Scots irish country in the US) who used the name McMullen.
My other match (at roughly 20 generations) only has an idea going back to the 1800's in the US (he also has someone using McMullen).
According to our family lore the most distant ancestor we know of fled from Mayo to Donegal for taking part in the 1798 rebellion (supposedly his ancestors were riven from Donegal to Mayo after the plantation). Long story short, would many catholics have come over during the plantation?
Also when I look at surnames in the M223 project those in L126 seem heavily weighted towards names you would associate with Scotland and the plantation but there is a few you could call more irish gaelic, but the wide range of surnames suggest the adoptions of surnames were very haphazzard.

I-L126 is a subclade of I-M284.

Here's what the ISOGG y-haplogroup I page has to say about I-M284:

Quote from: ISOGG

I2a2a1-M284 occurs almost exclusively in Britain, so it apparently originated there and has probably been present for thousands of years.

http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpI.html

I don't know about the "true son of the Gael" bit, but it seems likely that I-L126 has been in Ireland a very long time indeed and probably predates the historical period there.

I believe Jean M has made a pretty reasonable argument that its source was Pictish ("Cruithin") based on surnames and geographic distribution in Ireland, but I don't recall the details.
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inver2b1
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« Reply #83 on: July 19, 2012, 09:12:37 AM »

Irish surnames have multiple origins.Dont doubt yourself because of your snp status.You're a true son of the Gael and be proud of it.





I'm I-L126 which is down stream of M284; I match two people on FTDNA with variations of the surname McMillan, my name is Mullen and as far as I can make out both surname share the same gaelic origin (McMaolain/O'Maolain).
One of my matches (according to FTDNA we most likely have our common ancestor at 24 generations) can trace his line to Scotland to about 1400 with no one arriivng in Ireland and he has ancestors in the US (he's more or less in the epicentre of Scots irish country in the US) who used the name McMullen.
My other match (at roughly 20 generations) only has an idea going back to the 1800's in the US (he also has someone using McMullen).
According to our family lore the most distant ancestor we know of fled from Mayo to Donegal for taking part in the 1798 rebellion (supposedly his ancestors were riven from Donegal to Mayo after the plantation). Long story short, would many catholics have come over during the plantation?
Also when I look at surnames in the M223 project those in L126 seem heavily weighted towards names you would associate with Scotland and the plantation but there is a few you could call more irish gaelic, but the wide range of surnames suggest the adoptions of surnames were very haphazzard.

As often said Y DNA is just a small bit, I'm intrigued more than anything.
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« Reply #84 on: July 19, 2012, 01:26:49 PM »

In the "Geography of Recent Genetic Ancestry in Europe", the authors, Peter Ralph and Graham Coop,
show a relative high level of admixture between Ireland and the UK. The study contains a wealth of information. It is unfortunate that the sampling is mainly based around Lausanne and London, which would not necessarily be representative of stable populations.
Razib Khan has a good analysis of the results including:
"There are plenty of other possible inferences one could make. For example, is the negative correlation between IBD tracts in individuals of UK origin affiliated with Germany and Ireland a function of a difference in Celtic and Germanic ancestry dating to the Dark Ages, or is it simply due to the fact that the United Kingdom has had a recent wave of Irish ancestry in the 19th century, or perhaps just a natural result of a geographic continuum and isolation by distance."

I hope Paul does not mind me posting this comment here which is relevant to this thread:

Paul Ó Duḃṫaiġ Says:

Regarding Irish migration to Britain, it’s been recored since at least the 16th century. Obviously it picked up during the industrial revolution before reaching all time high in period after 1840. Here is some stats on number of irish born living in Britain in period 1841 to 1921
1841 415,725
1851    727,326
1861 805,717
1871 774,310
1881 781,119
1891 653,122
1901 631,629
1911 550,040
1921 523,767
I don’t have figures for 1931-1950, but here are those from 1951 to 2001, obviously the UK census for 2011 hasn’t released the relevant figures let. Given the economic situation there has been a noticable increase in migration to Britain. During the dark days of the 1980′s over 330,000 went to Britain in period 1982-1993.
1951: 716,028
1961: 948,320
1971: 957,830
1981: 850,397
1991: 837,464
2001: 869,093
There has been constant Irish migration to Britain which is born up by the fact that the Irish-born population has been relatively stable over the last 170 years. At the moment it’s reckoned that about 6 million people in Britain have at least one Irish grandparent and are thus eligible for Irish citizenship (10% of the population). When you factor in the bigger picture and migration during the 19th century you end up with up to 14million people having some Irish ancestry (nearly 25% of population).

This is one of the many outbound migrations from Ireland.
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« Reply #85 on: July 19, 2012, 05:56:01 PM »

Yes the modern Irish really are an admixture.
My understanding of the principal inbound and outbound migrations is as follows:

Inbound
1) Mesolithic Settlers
2) Neolithic Settlers
3) Megalithic People
4) Celtic People
       Atlantic Celts
       River Celts
       Central European Celts
       Copper, Bronze, Iron Ages
5) Vikings
6) Normans
7) Anglo Saxons
8) Plantations (Ulster, Leinster, Munster)

9) Huguenot French
10) Palatine Germans
11) Modern Migrants (Polish, etc.)
....

Was there much of an Anglo-Saxon migration into Ireland during the Anglo-Saxon Era?  I always thought there wasn't?

Did the Black Plague of the 1300's impact Ireland as much as or more than England?

I know that the Plantation Era brought English landlords. How large of a population movement was involved?

During the industrial era, supposedly, many Irish came to England?  Were there any reasons for English to go to Ireland?
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samIsaack
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« Reply #86 on: July 19, 2012, 06:28:00 PM »

Yes the modern Irish really are an admixture.
My understanding of the principal inbound and outbound migrations is as follows:

Inbound
1) Mesolithic Settlers
2) Neolithic Settlers
3) Megalithic People
4) Celtic People
       Atlantic Celts
       River Celts
       Central European Celts
       Copper, Bronze, Iron Ages
5) Vikings
6) Normans
7) Anglo Saxons
8) Plantations (Ulster, Leinster, Munster)

9) Huguenot French
10) Palatine Germans
11) Modern Migrants (Polish, etc.)
....

Was there much of an Anglo-Saxon migration into Ireland during the Anglo-Saxon Era?  I always thought there wasn't?

Did the Black Plague of the 1300's impact Ireland as much as or more than England?

I know that the Plantation Era brought English landlords. How large of a population movement was involved?

During the industrial era, supposedly, many Irish came to England?  Were there any reasons for English to go to Ireland?

For what its worth.. here is a map of the early land allocations of Scottish planters/adventurers/servitors to Northern Eire.

http://www.thereformation.info/Images/scotland.jpg

I've got some what of a confirmation of ancestry to County Fermanagh.. by way of a William Iseack.. I'm assuming this same Iseack is the one listed on the Cromwellian adventurers list for the 1640's.. with an Isaacke listing appearing on that. The William is located in Clanawley and would've been a Scottish servitor along with an Archibald Hamilton.. who is most likely related to a Sir James Hamilton of Lanarkshire.. James being one of the original "Private" Scots Undertakers. Sorry for the personal genealogy rant.. I figure it helps to paint a better picture of the admixture in Ireland!
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« Reply #87 on: July 19, 2012, 06:33:20 PM »

Yes the modern Irish really are an admixture.
My understanding of the principal inbound and outbound migrations is as follows:

Inbound
1) Mesolithic Settlers
2) Neolithic Settlers
3) Megalithic People
4) Celtic People
       Atlantic Celts
       River Celts
       Central European Celts
       Copper, Bronze, Iron Ages
5) Vikings
6) Normans
7) Anglo Saxons
8) Plantations (Ulster, Leinster, Munster)

9) Huguenot French
10) Palatine Germans
11) Modern Migrants (Polish, etc.)
....

Was there much of an Anglo-Saxon migration into Ireland during the Anglo-Saxon Era?  I always thought there wasn't?

Did the Black Plague of the 1300's impact Ireland as much as or more than England?

I know that the Plantation Era brought English landlords. How large of a population movement was involved?

During the industrial era, supposedly, many Irish came to England?  Were there any reasons for English to go to Ireland?

There was no Saxon settlement in the pre-1066 era in Ireland other then in form of a number of monastic settlements. However I should note that even today the word for an english person in the Irish language is Sasanach, the name for England been Sasana (Saxony).

The Black Death had an asymmetric affect in Ireland. It cause major damage to the Cambro-Norman Colony. However the affect in Gaelic Ireland was lower due to lack of major settlement and dispersed population. It tied in with general major calamity that hit the Norman settlement during the 14th century and led to a "Gaelic reconquest" of most of Ireland during the 15th century (along with gaelicisation of Norman lordships). You have to realise that the vast majority of the Norman lords ended up having Irish mothers and wives. This of course was a major driver in the process.

The Tudor Reconquest and period from 1540-1692 saw the process of the destruction of the ruling native/"old english" landholding classes and the appropriation of estates and their granting to what are known as the "New English" (eg. Protestant "Tudor adventurers" etc.). The process was particulary accelerated by the Cromellian reconquest in which all Catholic landholders (basically landlords/gentry) lost their lands east of the Shannon. The result was that in the 18th century for most of Ireland you had what was known as the "Protestant ascendancy". The descendants of this aristocracy is to this day known as the Anglo-Irish.

Of course there was a certain amount of migration, for example landgrants were made to Cromwellian vetrans etc. The only Plantation to have a major affect was that of Ulster, the results of which we live with to this day.

If we are to believe the figures for casualties during the 16th century and 17th century it's probable that the Irish population lost 50% of it's population at least once if not twice during the 160 years between 1540 and 1700. The Cromwellian conquest alone would have had more of an affect then the Black Death had in the 14th century (40-50% of population died in period 1641-52)
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alan trowel hands.
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« Reply #88 on: July 19, 2012, 07:42:27 PM »

When Ireland was Continental
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-18687504?goback=.gde_157795_member_130235946

I wonder what genetic groups the first people were, on the newly formed island of Ireland?

Well we have a pretty good idea.  The Irish early Mesolithic c. 8000-6000BC featured a group whose tools were made of narrow blade microliths at an early stage.  This is also known in Britain.  In fact the earliest dates of all come from the Forth River valley in Scotland c. 8500BC and it seems to have entered the current landmass of Britain from somewhere perhaps the northern shore of the North Sea of the period c. 8500BC. I think the shore at that time attached to the modern British landmass somewhere in England.  Its very likely that the Irish hunters arrived from the North Sea area via Scotland or the English-Scottish border area.  There do not seem to have been diverse groups in the Irish early Mesolithic.  They had very similar homogenous techology suggesting they were all descended from just one small group. 

This contrasts with Britain where a broad bladed (Maglemosian culture - also stetching across what is now the bed of the North Sea as far as Denmark) also was present as far north as southern Scotland.  This preceeded the narrow blade group in England.  Britian is also more complex in that it had Upper Paleaolithic groups (Ireland was not settled at this time).  They have even shown recently that Scotland had North European Upper Palaelithic Ahrensburgian hunters visiting occasionally even at a time when a significant part of Scotland was extremely cold.   
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« Reply #89 on: July 20, 2012, 04:46:48 AM »

Another smaller outbound migration, but interesting nonetheless, in the 17th C white slave trade due to Barbary raids. Almost the entire village of Baltimore was abducted by Barbary pirates and taken to North Africa. Between 1530 and 1780, it is estimated that up to 1,25 million Europeans were abducted in this way.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/empire_seapower/white_slaves_01.shtml

Another example was Cromwells conquest of Ireland which led to the enslavement of tens of thousands native Irish.
"In Barbados by the 1640's there were an estimated 25,000 slaves, of whom 21,700 were White. Cromwell's conquest of Ireland in the middle of the seventeenth century made slaves as well as subjects of the Irish people. Over a hundred thousand men, women and children were seized by the English troops and shipped to the West Indies, where they were sold into slavery. In the British West Indies the torture visited upon White slaves by their masters was routine. Masters hung White slaves by their hands and set their hands afire as a means of punishment."

http://www.yale.edu/glc/tangledroots/Barbadosed.htm
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« Reply #90 on: July 20, 2012, 06:57:01 PM »

Another smaller outbound migration, but interesting nonetheless, in the 17th C white slave trade due to Barbary raids. Almost the entire village of Baltimore was abducted by Barbary pirates and taken to North Africa. Between 1530 and 1780, it is estimated that up to 1,25 million Europeans were abducted in this way.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/empire_seapower/white_slaves_01.shtml

Another example was Cromwells conquest of Ireland which led to the enslavement of tens of thousands native Irish.
"In Barbados by the 1640's there were an estimated 25,000 slaves, of whom 21,700 were White. Cromwell's conquest of Ireland in the middle of the seventeenth century made slaves as well as subjects of the Irish people. Over a hundred thousand men, women and children were seized by the English troops and shipped to the West Indies, where they were sold into slavery. In the British West Indies the torture visited upon White slaves by their masters was routine. Masters hung White slaves by their hands and set their hands afire as a means of punishment."

http://www.ironbarkresources.com/slaves/whiteslaves08.htm

This is all good information, but I think slightly off topic. The question about are the Irish mixed is more about how many different groups came into Ireland, not went out.

When Cromwell came into Ireland, what was the resulting in migration from Great Britain?

EDIT: I apologize. I guess there is a point here about out-migrations that affect the mix of people. The more of the native inhabitants that move out or die then that makes diluting them in the final mix all the more likely.
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« Reply #91 on: July 20, 2012, 07:26:01 PM »


EDIT: I apologize. I guess there is a point here about out-migrations that affect the mix of people.

There may be a good point, but it's from a bad source.  That Ironbark nonsense is just a reaction to "reverse" racism (of the pay-us-reparations variety), by special pleading for racism of the regular kind... because some fraction of us white people were someone's slaves, too.  Dagnabbit.

I guess we Americans who have some Irish ancestry should all ask for reparations -- to be paid from the taxes of all those wealthy African-Americans, or something?  But I somehow doubt that the guys behind this web resource actually even want to pay their own taxes, much less reparations to themselves.  This stuff is just background noise.
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« Reply #92 on: July 20, 2012, 07:41:04 PM »

I'm calling the police.
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« Reply #93 on: July 20, 2012, 07:44:31 PM »

I'm calling the police.

In some U.S. cities, you could call them in Gaelic and they would understand you! ;-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XoqkOd3JS8
« Last Edit: July 20, 2012, 07:46:41 PM by rms2 » Logged

Heber
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« Reply #94 on: July 20, 2012, 07:48:31 PM »

Effect of Cromwell on land ownership in Ireland (1641 - 1703).
Cromwells invasion of Ireland  resulted in one of the most massive forced transfers of land in western history from a Gaelic Catholic majority to a Protestant Ascendency minority. It was underpinned by the Penal Laws and led directly to the national tragedy of The Great Famine.

http://www.wesleyjohnston.com/users/ireland/maps/historical/mapcromw.gif
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Dubhthach
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« Reply #95 on: July 20, 2012, 08:29:35 PM »

Effect of Cromwell on land ownership in Ireland (1641 - 1703).
Cromwells invasion of Ireland  resulted in one of the most massive forced transfers of land in western history from a Gaelic Catholic majority to a Protestant Ascendency minority. It was underpinned by the Penal Laws and led directly to the national tragedy of The Great Famine.

http://www.wesleyjohnston.com/users/ireland/maps/historical/mapcromw.gif


It should be noted though that this is specifically the landholding elite of the population (be they native or post-Cromwellian). The bulk of the irish population consist of peasantry who were tenant farmers. Before 1641 about 60% of the landholdings were still in Catholic hands. These consist of both "Native" and "Neo-Native" (Old English). If anything the "Irish confederacy" of the 1640's resulted in the complete blending of the two groups. One can see this even in Irish language where the word Éireanach (Irishman) comes to the front as oppose to the traditional Gael vs. Sean Ghall (old foreigner).

On the specific pages on Wiki there is following along with a reference to an actual published text:

Quote
Over 12,000 veterans of the New Model Army were given land in Ireland in place of their wages, which the Commonwealth was unable to pay. Many of these sold their land grants to other Protestants rather than settle in war-ravaged Ireland, but 7,500 soldiers did remain in the country. They were required to keep their weapons to act as a reserve militia in case of future rebellions. Taken together with the Merchant Adventurers, probably over 10,000 Parliamentarians settled in Ireland after the civil wars. Most of these were single men however and many of them married Irish women (although banned by law from doing so). Some of the Cromwellian soldiers therefore became integrated into Irish Catholic society. In addition to the Parliamentarians, thousands of Scottish Covenanter soldiers, who had been stationed in Ulster during the war settled there permanently after its end.[38]
[38] ^ Lenihan, Consolidating Conquest, pp. 134-139

In general during early 18th century the population spilt was reckoned at about 70% Catholic and 30% Protestant. Obviously a big chunk of the Protestant population was within Ulster (specifically the 6 counties out of 9 that became the North of Ireland)

Around 10,000 Hugenots came to Ireland in the period after the "War of the Two Kings" during the 1690's which marked the final complete destruction of native elite.
http://www.huguenotsociety.org.uk/history.html

Obviously at around the same time you saw the beginning of the "Flight of the Wild Geese" with the departure of 14,000 Irish troops along with 10,000 women and Children from Limerick in 1691, these joined over 6,000 Irish troops who had been in France since 1689 (as part exchange for French troops fighting in Ireland).

Some Primers:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Ireland_(1536%E2%80%931691)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Ireland_(1691%E2%80%931801)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Confederate_Wars
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cromwellian_conquest_of_Ireland
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Act_for_the_Settlement_of_Ireland_1652
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down_Survey
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Act_of_Settlement_1662
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plantations_of_Ireland
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Williamite_War_in_Ireland
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_Ascendancy
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eochaidh
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« Reply #96 on: July 20, 2012, 08:45:06 PM »

I'm calling the police.

In some U.S. cities, you could call them in Gaelic and they would understand you! ;-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XoqkOd3JS8

Na Gardai!! (The Cops!!)
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sernam
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« Reply #97 on: July 24, 2012, 02:55:27 PM »

Another smaller outbound migration, but interesting nonetheless, in the 17th C white slave trade due to Barbary raids. Almost the entire village of Baltimore was abducted by Barbary pirates and taken to North Africa. Between 1530 and 1780, it is estimated that up to 1,25 million Europeans were abducted in this way.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/empire_seapower/white_slaves_01.shtml

Another example was Cromwells conquest of Ireland which led to the enslavement of tens of thousands native Irish.
"In Barbados by the 1640's there were an estimated 25,000 slaves, of whom 21,700 were White. Cromwell's conquest of Ireland in the middle of the seventeenth century made slaves as well as subjects of the Irish people. Over a hundred thousand men, women and children were seized by the English troops and shipped to the West Indies, where they were sold into slavery. In the British West Indies the torture visited upon White slaves by their masters was routine. Masters hung White slaves by their hands and set their hands afire as a means of punishment."

http://www.yale.edu/glc/tangledroots/Barbadosed.htm
Edit: Modified Link


Scots Stuart supporters & covenanters were sent by Cromwell, James II & later Georges.
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pconroy
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« Reply #98 on: July 27, 2012, 06:43:58 PM »

Take as an example of this type of issue the famous Henry Louis Gates, Harvard professor. Dr. Gates is African-American, and he looks like an African. I am pretty sure he identifies with other African-Americans. Who would argue that he is not? Yet Dr. Gates is R-M222 in his y-dna.

Not only is Dr Henry Louis "Skip" Gates Jr. R-M222, but his results are sandwiched between 2 of my nearest Dunn(e) relatives. I wrote to him and his Genealogist some time ago to suggest that his male progenitor was a:
Dunn/Dunne/Doyne/Doying

So far I haven't heard back from either...

BTW, although my name is Conroy, I am actually a Dunne by some NPE or other.
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« Reply #99 on: July 27, 2012, 06:58:13 PM »

Quote from: Heber link=topic=10788.msg134573#msg134573 Outbound
1) Dal Riada
2) Celtic Monastic Movement
[/quote

I would also add the Deisi, who migrated into South West Britain and Wales and established colonies there.
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