R1b-L21* "true asterisk" DF13- people & DF63

[rms2]

Bush, kit 31903, got a DF13- result this morning. No DF63 order yet.

[bmattox]

Bob here, from the Maddox DF13- DF63-  group. I just ordered the L459 and Z245 tests. The tests will be batched on Thursday. Happy hunting!

[k.o.gran]

Bob here, from the Maddox DF13- DF63-  group. I just ordered the L459 and Z245 tests. The tests will be batched on Thursday. Happy hunting!

Good luck Bob! This feels a bit strange to write, but let's hope for some negative results! And thank you for being a pioneer!

-Kai

[df.reynolds]

Bob here, from the Maddox DF13- DF63-  group. I just ordered the L459 and Z245 tests. The tests will be batched on Thursday. Happy hunting!

Super, look forward to seeing your results.

If you want to do some additional investigatory testing at some point, there are three other SNPs which are of interest to L21+ DF13- DF63- people.
  Z2542 (approx. equivalent to DF13)
  Z260 (approx. equivalent to L21)
  Z290 (approx. equivalent to L21)

Regards,
david

[df.reynolds]

Bob here, from the Maddox DF13- DF63-  group. I just ordered the L459 and Z245 tests. The tests will be batched on Thursday. Happy hunting!

Super, look forward to seeing your results.

If you want to do some additional investigatory testing at some point, there are three other SNPs which are of interest to L21+ DF13- DF63- people.
  Z2542 (approx. equivalent to DF13)
  Z260 (approx. equivalent to L21)
  Z290 (approx. equivalent to L21)

Regards,
david

Late breaking news. Kit 365 (Cook) received his Z2542 result and is L21+ Z2542+ DF13- DF63-.

Z2542 sits above DF13, under L21. All of the folks that were R1b-L21* are strongly encouraged to test Z2542.

We know Z2542 is under R-L21 (rather than equivalent to it, like L459), since Kai (R-DF63) tested Z2542-.

Z2542 was submitted to the Hg R ISOGG coordinator for inclusion on the ISOGG tree. A request for primers for it was sent to Thomas Krahn on 18 Nov, so all-in-all, a very satisfactory timeline for it.

Sorry folks, please ignore the above. The kit in question is in fact DF13+, not DF13-, so the best we can say about Z2542 is that it is located at approximately R-DF13. Thanks to Thomas Krahn for identifying the error and quickly letting us know about it. Thomas said:

"DF13 is a difficult marker to score because the sequencing traces are not clean because the primers bind to all sorts of locations. We have had several revisions of primers. The ones that we use are the best but they're still not great. Our technician tried to read a not so clean trace manually but he shifted one base to the side and came to the (wrong) DF13- conclusion."

Regards,
david

[TH63]

Sorry folks, please ignore the above. The kit in question is in fact DF13+, not DF13-, so the best we can say about Z2542 is that it is located at approximately R-DF13. Thanks to Thomas Krahn for identifying the error and quickly letting us know about it. Thomas said:

"DF13 is a difficult marker to score because the sequencing traces are not clean because the primers bind to all sorts of locations. We have had several revisions of primers. The ones that we use are the best but they're still not great. Our technician tried to read a not so clean trace manually but he shifted one base to the side and came to the (wrong) DF13- conclusion."

Regards,
david

Does this suggest that others in L21+ may have received a DF13- result due to lab error, because it is a "difficult marker to score"? It is not clear to me how this error in Cook's kit was discovered, what triggered this finding.

[k.o.gran]

Does this suggest that others in L21+ may have received a DF13- result due to lab error, because it is a "difficult marker to score"? It is not clear to me how this error in Cook's kit was discovered, what triggered this finding.

Hi Todd,

Lab errors are always a possibility, but it's my opinion that they are quite far apart. The error was discovered because he, as a DF13-, tested positive for a SNP (Z2542) that was believed to by phylogenetically equivalent to DF13. If that result had been correct, it would have been sort of a big deal, as it would split those SNPs. Thomas Krahn did a recheck, and it turned out the result was erroneous.

-Kai

[bmattox]

I have the results of one of my snps. I am L459+, now awaiting the results of the Z245. Any interpretations are surely appreciated. Take care. Bob.

[k.o.gran]

I have the results of one of my snps. I am L459+, now awaiting the results of the Z245. Any interpretations are surely appreciated. Take care. Bob.

Hi Bob,

L459+ is in line with all previous results, so that means it is still phylogenetically equivalent of L21.

-Kai

[bmattox]

Thank you Kai.

[erwangery]

Hi, I am positive for cts6919+.

Erwan (kit n66966)

[k.o.gran]

Hi, I am positive for cts6919+.

Erwan (kit n66966)

Hi Erwan,

Yes, you and kit 54798 Franklin are our newest CTS6919+ kits. Along with N110523 Braunhofer, these are the only three kits known to date that are CTS6919+. My result (191950 Lowden) also came back, but it came back negative. Your genetic distance from Franklin is enough for ISOGG inclusion, so I sent an email to ISOGG just now, requesting that CTS6919 is added to the tree.

Thank you for being a pioneer!

-Kai

[k.o.gran]

I have the results of one of my snps. I am L459+, now awaiting the results of the Z245. Any interpretations are surely appreciated. Take care. Bob.

Hi Bob,

I see that you are now listed as Z245+. That result is also in line with previous results. So L21=L459=Z245 still. From what I know, you're only the second L21** testing for both those two.

-Kai

[bmattox]

Thanks Kai. Any ideas on what might be next for me? Thanks. Bob.

[k.o.gran]

Thanks Kai. Any ideas on what might be next for me? Thanks. Bob.

I'm not entirely sure, but I believe Z260, Z290 and Z2542 are your options. Can anyone else confirm? David R.? Mike W.?

Keep in mind that it is very likely that you test Z260+, Z290+ and Z2542-. However, should you test differently, you will make quite an impact on the L21 haplotree.

These are the only test results I can find for other L21** kits for these SNPs:
94428 - Meadows: Z290+
37201 - Berry: Z290+
N80403 - Bishop: Z290+

-Kai