R1b-L21* "true asterisk" DF13- people & DF63

[Jdean]

Mr L21** Berry (kit no. 37201) has a new SNP L1068

Wonder if this is going to be private or not !!

[rms2]

Mr L21** Berry (kit no. 37201) has a new SNP L1068

Wonder if this is going to be private or not !!

Hope not!

It would be nice if he and his brethren found a downstream home.

[Jdean]

Mr L21** Berry (kit no. 37201) has a new SNP L1068

Wonder if this is going to be private or not !!

Hope not!

It would be nice if he and his brethren found a downstream home.

Ah I think this SNP might be quite a bit above L21 and came out a while back.

I was just checking to see if the Scots Modal fellows results were out yet, should be soon.

Ho Hum

[Mikewww]

There has been only one L192.1+ result, and all we know about the result is that it is also L21+. L192.1 has been extensively tested and is almost certainly private.

Thanks, David. I asked Thomas Krahn what public info was available and he said it was found in kit N11793. Is there any way we can find out more about that kit, to determine the haplotype?

Son of a gun. N11793 (Ash) is in the L21 project and is R-L513*.
L193-, L21+, L23+, L49+, L513+, L706.2-, L908-, L909-, M126-, M153-, M160-, M173+, M18-, M207+, M222-, M269+, M343+, M37-, M65-, M73-, P107-, P25+, P310+, P311+, P312+, P66-, SRY2627-, U106-, U152-, U198-

L192 is right next to L193, so L192.1+ was probably recognized when Ash had the L193 test done; since he didn't actually order L192, it wouldn't show in his results.

Thanks for turning this up. I had no idea this was in a L513. I have many of the L513+ in the L513 Combo project, including fN11793 Ash. He fits into a variety I call 513-1113-C-1 with a Gittens and a whole bunch of Fletcher folks.

L192.1 seems to be negative in other L513 people but his closest group has not tested.

[hamish]

Thanks for turning this up. I had no idea this was in a L513. I have many of the L513+ in the L513 Combo project, including fN11793 Ash. He fits into a variety I call 513-1113-C-1 with a Gittens and a whole bunch of Fletcher folks.

L192.1 seems to be negative in other L513 people but his closest group has not tested.

Thomas Krahn's draft tree also has L9/L10 and L577 downstream of L513. Has anyone in Ash's cluster tested for those?

[Mikewww]

Thanks for turning this up. I had no idea this was in a L513. I have many of the L513+ in the L513 Combo project, including fN11793 Ash. He fits into a variety I call 513-1113-C-1 with a Gittens and a whole bunch of Fletcher folks.

L192.1 seems to be negative in other L513 people but his closest group has not tested.

Thomas Krahn's draft tree also has L9/L10 and L577 downstream of L513. Has anyone in Ash's cluster tested for those?

No. Here is our downstream SNP testing for the Ash/Gittens/Fletcher variety of 513-1113-C-1 people:

fN11793   Ash   R-L21/DF13/L513*   513-1113-C-1   L513+ L192.1+ L193- L706.2- L908- L909-
f143683   Gittens   R-L21/DF13/L513   513-1113-C-1   L513+ L459+ 3c1g


I would not predict a positive hit for L9, L10 and L557 (particularly L577) but you never know.

[k.o.gran]

Regarding the original topic... 208171 Allan is DF13-/DF63+. Welcome to the group, Hamish! :)

26883 - Tupper is DF13-/DF63-. Tupper is the third person from England to be L21** (of a total of five people). That's assuming the L21 result from 23andMe is correct.

Still waiting for Broom's DF63 test.

-Kai

[hamish]

Regarding the original topic... 208171 Allan is DF13-/DF63+. Welcome to the group, Hamish! :)

Thanks Kai! Looking forward to my markers over 37 coming back so that I can help explore more effectively. BTW, which is your kit no.?

[df.reynolds]

Regarding the original topic... 208171 Allan is DF13-/DF63+. Welcome to the group, Hamish! :)

26883 - Tupper is DF13-/DF63-. Tupper is the third person from England to be L21** (of a total of five people). That's assuming the L21 result from 23andMe is correct.

Still waiting for Broom's DF63 test.

-Kai

I see Broom came back DF63+ today.

--david

[k.o.gran]

Still waiting for Broom's DF63 test.

-Kai

I see Broom came back DF63+ today.

--david

Finally! It feels like a million years have passed since I recommended DF13 for them and hoped for a negative result. Waiting for these results is really boring, but it is great to see them come back as predicted (thanks, Mike!).

-Kai

[df.reynolds]

Still waiting for Broom's DF63 test.

-Kai

I see Broom came back DF63+ today.

Finally! It feels like a million years have passed since I recommended DF13 for them and hoped for a negative result. Waiting for these results is really boring, but it is great to see them come back as predicted (thanks, Mike!).

-Kai

Kai, kudos on the great job you have done on driving the DF63 testing!

--david

[k.o.gran]

Kai, kudos on the great job you have done on driving the DF63 testing!

--david

Thanks David! With all the great tools that are available, it is nothing but joy. And as the first step is testing for DF13, it easy to recruit people. It is the only SNP I know of where both a positive and a negative result is a good thing.

-Kai

[rms2]

Two new DF13- folks this morning: Schaefer, kit H1922 (Linz am Rhein, Germany), and McFarlin, kit N7446 (County Tyrone, Northern Ireland).

[k.o.gran]

Two new DF13- folks this morning: Schaefer, kit H1922 (Linz am Rhein, Germany), and McFarlin, kit N7446 (County Tyrone, Northern Ireland).

Fantastic! Mike's variety 1415 was predicted DF63 in Alex's previous NJ tree, that's why I contacted McFarland/the MacFarlane DNA project and suggested DF13. That tree combined with Mike's data is incredibly valuable as a research tool. I'll contact them and suggest DF63 testing. Their closest on the current tree is f_147885 Laumenech R-L21 [zzL21unassigned] France. I'll have a look in the spreadsheets to see if he's a plausible DF13- candidate.

Does anyone know if Schaefer has tested L21+ elsewhere?

-Kai

[df.reynolds]

Does anyone know if Schaefer has tested L21+ elsewhere?

-Kai

Yes, 23andME.

--david

[k.o.gran]

Does anyone know if Schaefer has tested L21+ elsewhere?

-Kai

Yes, 23andME.

--david

Thanks, David! :)

[k.o.gran]

N76446 McFarland has ordered DF63. I've also contacted 147885 Laumenech and suggested he finds out his DF13 status. Mike has him in a variety that is DF13+ (variety 1424), but in my eyes, he might as well be a distant relative of variety X13-1415. Only testing will tell.

Edit: From what I know, McFarland is the first DF13- from Northern Ireland, and Schaefer is the first from Germany.

-Kai

[Mark Jost]

Is McFarland a version of MacFarlane, as in Clan MacFarlane? Which claims descent from the original Earls of Lennox descending from an Anglo-Saxon but maybe now thought that the original Earls of Lennox were of Gaelic descent?

An early continetial connection?

MJost

[k.o.gran]

Is McFarland a version of MacFarlane, as in Clan MacFarlane? Which claims descent from the original Earls of Lennox descending from an Anglo-Saxon but maybe now thought that the original Earls of Lennox were of Gaelic descent?

An early continetial connection?

MJost

Mark, I think you are correct. All kits in the groups named "R1b Cadets" in the MacFarlane project is very likely DF13-.
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/MacFarlane/default.aspx?section=yresults

They have quite alot of information on their project page: http://www.familytreedna.com/public/MacFarlane/default.aspx

-Kai

[Mark Jost]

Since we are seeing the L21* guys mostly in England it may be carried into the area by Anglo-Saxons's?

MJost

 

[alan trowel hands.]

Since we are seeing the L21* guys mostly in England it may be carried into the area by Anglo-Saxons's?

MJost

 

That would be very hard to make sense of indeed.  There was a parallel L21XDF13 line in France that is hugely more common than L21XDf13 in England per head tested.  I would suggest Normans are the most likely source of L21* in England. 

[Mark Jost]

Since we are seeing the L21* guys mostly in England it may be carried into the area by Anglo-Saxons's?

MJost

That would be very hard to make sense of indeed.  There was a parallel L21XDF13 line in France that is hugely more common than L21XDf13 in England per head tested.  I would suggest Normans are the most likely source of L21* in England. 

Ok, I just rechecked to make sure what I am seeing.

Of the L21 guys who have tested negative for DF13 and DF63 there are five English, one French and the other unknown for eight total.

The DF63+ are four English and four Scots, two French, one Spain, with two Franklins and one Chavez with unknown origin.

So it seems the current crop is tilting majority to the isles on both L21* and DF63+ but you are probably correct that this could have been a serious Norman movement.

MJost

[Mikewww]

Mark, I think you are correct. All kits in the groups named "R1b Cadets" in the MacFarlane project is very likely DF13-.
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/MacFarlane/default.aspx?section=yresults

They have quite alot of information on their project page: http://www.familytreedna.com/public/MacFarlane/default.aspx

Alll the McFarlanes that are YCAII=18,23 look to be what I call X13-1415, a L21+ DF13- variety. There were also some M222 suspects to go with a Scots modal suspect. I added all the 67 STR people that fit into the L21 file.

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/17907527/R1b-L21_Haplotypes.zip

[k.o.gran]

Thank you Mike.

I suspect we can soon rename this variety to X1363-1415. Time will tell.

I'll try to contact the untested people in X13-63unassigned to see if we can get any of them to test. DF63+ is growing nicely.

-Kai

[bmattox]

Hello, Bob here, is there any benefit to testing for L459 and/or Z245 for a L21**?