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Author Topic: R1b-L21* "true asterisk" DF13- people & DF63  (Read 28940 times)
rms2
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« Reply #75 on: July 08, 2012, 09:04:15 AM »

Another Frenchman just ordered a DF13 test. That brings the total number of pending French DF13 tests to 7.
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razyn
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« Reply #76 on: July 08, 2012, 10:46:58 AM »

I find the names "Roma" and "Broom/Broome" interestingly similar, but I do not know the history of either names, so I guess that would fall into the category of speculation.

Did these Broomes live in or near Wales?  A lot of names get a B or P added at the beginning, left over from the patronymic prefix ab- or ap- in Welsh (e.g. "ab Roma," son of a Roma or Gypsy, would be pronounced "Broom" in, say, Gloucestershire or Monmouthshire).  Just a little grist for your speculation; it could be entirely mistaken.  But so are about half the folk etymologies one reads in guides to the meaning of names.
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k.o.gran
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« Reply #77 on: July 08, 2012, 12:05:20 PM »

I find the names "Roma" and "Broom/Broome" interestingly similar, but I do not know the history of either names, so I guess that would fall into the category of speculation.

Did these Broomes live in or near Wales?  A lot of names get a B or P added at the beginning, left over from the patronymic prefix ab- or ap- in Welsh (e.g. "ab Roma," son of a Roma or Gypsy, would be pronounced "Broom" in, say, Gloucestershire or Monmouthshire).  Just a little grist for your speculation; it could be entirely mistaken.  But so are about half the folk etymologies one reads in guides to the meaning of names.

Thank you razyn.
From what I can see they have listed UK, England, Scotland and Northern Ireland as paternal origins, but nearly all have listed their most distant paternal ancestor as from the USA. If I was the admin of that project, I would most definitively get at least one member to test for DF13. That way, they would be one step closer to not having me doing guesswork about their surname origin. ;-)

-Kai
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Jdean
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« Reply #78 on: July 08, 2012, 12:34:09 PM »

I find the names "Roma" and "Broom/Broome" interestingly similar, but I do not know the history of either names, so I guess that would fall into the category of speculation.

Did these Broomes live in or near Wales?  A lot of names get a B or P added at the beginning, left over from the patronymic prefix ab- or ap- in Welsh (e.g. "ab Roma," son of a Roma or Gypsy, would be pronounced "Broom" in, say, Gloucestershire or Monmouthshire).  Just a little grist for your speculation; it could be entirely mistaken.  But so are about half the folk etymologies one reads in guides to the meaning of names.

Ab tended to come before names that started with vowels hence Bowen and Bevan as apposed to Powell (from Howell of course not Owl :) and Prichard.

More often or not you can see the Christian name inside of Welsh surnames and personally I don't think this is an example of one.
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rms2
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« Reply #79 on: July 08, 2012, 05:13:57 PM »

Another Spaniard has ordered a DF13 test. That makes six DF13 tests pending for Spain.
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rms2
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« Reply #80 on: July 11, 2012, 09:51:16 AM »

Here is an update on pending continental DF13 testing thus far.

Pending DF13 Tests


France - 7

Spain - 6

Germany - 5

Norway - 3

Poland - 2

Czech Republic - 1

Hungary - 1

Netherlands - 1

Portugal - 1

I still have never heard from our Croatian guy, one way or another. I was really hoping to get him tested for DF13.
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alan trowel hands.
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« Reply #81 on: July 11, 2012, 02:42:33 PM »

Here is an update on pending continental DF13 testing thus far.

Pending DF13 Tests


France - 7

Spain - 6

Germany - 5

Norway - 3

Poland - 2

Czech Republic - 1

Hungary - 1

Netherlands - 1

Portugal - 1

I still have never heard from our Croatian guy, one way or another. I was really hoping to get him tested for DF13.

There should be pretty strong patterns when that little lot are added to the ones we already have. 
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Heber
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« Reply #82 on: July 11, 2012, 03:13:19 PM »

Another Spaniard has ordered a DF13 test. That makes six DF13 tests pending for Spain.

Rich,
How can I view the pending list. I cannot even see my own place in the queue.
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Heber


 
R1b1a2a1a1b4  L459+ L21+ DF21+ DF13+ U198- U106- P66- P314.2- M37- M222- L96- L513- L48- L44- L4- L226- L2- L196- L195- L193- L192.1- L176.2- L165- L159.2- L148- L144- L130- L1-
Paternal L21* DF21


Maternal H1C1



rms2
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« Reply #83 on: July 11, 2012, 10:08:57 PM »

Another Spaniard has ordered a DF13 test. That makes six DF13 tests pending for Spain.

Rich,
How can I view the pending list. I cannot even see my own place in the queue.


Only project admins can view the project's Pending Lab Results page.

On your own myFTDNA pages home page you can scroll down to "Pending Lab Results". Click on "Check Progress" to see what tests you have ordered and when they're due.

My own DF13 test is in Batch 472 and due 27 August 2012. I hope the result comes in sooner than that!
« Last Edit: July 11, 2012, 10:30:10 PM by rms2 » Logged

secherbernard
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« Reply #84 on: July 12, 2012, 08:02:33 AM »

My own DF13 test is in batch 467 and due 25 july 2012. It is weird that some DF13 results came very fastly, and that mine is so long...
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YDNA: R-DF13+ L69+ DYS464X: cccc.3
mtDNA: U6a7a1
mtDNA of my father: U5a2c
YDNA of my maternal uncle: I1*
Ysearch and Mitosearch: UE9BU
Ysearch of my maternal uncle: CEC59

Peter M
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« Reply #85 on: July 12, 2012, 12:36:08 PM »

My own DF13 test is in batch 467 and due 25 july 2012. It is weird that some DF13 results came very fastly, and that mine is so long...
The general pattern for most SNP tests is that the "guaranteed delivery date" is some six weeks after "batch day" (the first wednesday after your order). In practice, results might be delivered (far) more quickly (sometimes a few days) in individual cases.

E.g. if Thomas Krahn is personally interested in the specific case. $:-)

On the other hand, if Thomas doesn't like you, then .......   $:-)
« Last Edit: July 12, 2012, 12:38:30 PM by Peter M » Logged
Maliclavelli
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« Reply #86 on: July 12, 2012, 12:57:56 PM »

My own DF13 test is in Batch 472 and due 27 August 2012. I hope the result comes in sooner than that!
Also my upgrade to 111 is there.
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Maliclavelli


YDNA: R-S12460


MtDNA: K1a1b1e

Mike Walsh
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« Reply #87 on: July 12, 2012, 01:32:47 PM »

My own DF13 test is in Batch 472 and due 27 August 2012. I hope the result comes in sooner than that!
Also my upgrade to 111 is there.

Great! this summer sale is going to help us understand this a little better.
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R1b-L21>L513(DF1)>L705.2
OConnor
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« Reply #88 on: July 12, 2012, 01:51:38 PM »

I think I'll order the 111 upgrade.

Perhaps it will come in handy sometime.


EDIT: I just ordered it.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2012, 01:59:59 PM by OConnor » Logged

R1b1a2a1a1b4


R-DF13**(L21>DF13)
M42+, M45+, M526+, M74+, M89+, M9+, M94+, P108+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, P311+, P312+, P316+, M173+, M269+, M343+, P312+, L21+, DF13+, M207+, P25+, L11+, L138+, L141+, L15+, L150+, L16+, L23+, L51+, L52+, M168+, M173+, M207+, M213+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M343+, P69+, P9.1+, P97+, PK1+, SRY10831.1+, L21+, L226-, M37-, M222-, L96-, L193-, L144-, P66-, SRY2627-, M222-, DF49-, L371-, DF41-, L513-, L555-, L1335-, L1406-, Z251-, L526-, L130-, L144-, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195-, L96-, DF21-, Z255-, DF23-, DF1-, Z253-, M37-, M65-, M73-, M18-, M126-, M153-, M160-, P66-

12 24 14 10 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29 18


Mark Jost
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« Reply #89 on: July 13, 2012, 02:57:41 PM »

I see Meadows 94428 came back DF13-. In my Feb '12 phlyogram he fell closely to N80403   Bishop

94428   Meadows   R-L21   zzCountry   zzRegion   zzzUnkOrigin   0   6   1313 as he was a GD6 from

http://www.worldfamilies.net/forum/index.php?topic=10544.msg132726#msg13272

SS ID   Surname   Hg   Old World Country   Region   MDKAO   GD @27 Slow   GD @67   Variety   
N80403   Bishop   R-L21*   England   IS Eng London   England, London   0   0   1313   
94428   Meadows   R-L21   zzCountry   zzRegion   zzzUnkOrigin   0   6   1313   
158189   Manion   R-L21   Ireland   IS Ire z unk   Ireland   3   16   1121   

Noting DF13- is older than DF13+, and also branching off prior to the Bishop/Meadows branch is
158189  Manion Paterick Manion 1800 R1b1a2a1a1b4 R-L21 L1-, L21+, L23+, M222-, M37-, P312+, P66-, U106-.

http://www.worldfamilies.net/forum/index.php?topic=7991.msg115290#msg115290
Kit #158189
1. Paterick Manion, b. 1791 Ballyhaunnis, Co. Mayo, Ireland,  d. 6 Feb 1862 Danbury, CT.
2. Patrick Manion, b. 1839 Ballyhaunis, Co. Mayo, Ireland,  d. 20 April 1868 Danbury, CT.
3. William Stephen Manion, b. 9 Apr1865, d. Danbury, CT.
4. William Cecil Manion, b. 30 Jul 1916 Bethel, CT.

Is 158189   Manion  testing for DF13? As he might consider DF13?

MJost
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148326
Pos: Z245 L459 L21 DF13**
Neg: DF23 L513 L96 L144 Z255 Z253 DF21 DF41 (Z254 P66 P314.2 M37 M222  L563 L526 L226 L195 L193 L192.1 L159.2 L130 DF63 DF5 DF49)
WTYNeg: L555 L371 (L9/L10 L370 L302/L319.1 L554 L564 L577 P69 L626 L627 L643 L679)
secherbernard
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« Reply #90 on: July 14, 2012, 02:50:31 AM »

Darke (N72406) and Gery (N66966) came back DF13- DF63+, so there are three DF63+ now.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2012, 02:51:32 AM by secherbernard » Logged

YDNA: R-DF13+ L69+ DYS464X: cccc.3
mtDNA: U6a7a1
mtDNA of my father: U5a2c
YDNA of my maternal uncle: I1*
Ysearch and Mitosearch: UE9BU
Ysearch of my maternal uncle: CEC59

Jdean
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« Reply #91 on: July 14, 2012, 06:25:53 AM »

Darke (N72406) and Gery (N66966) came back DF13- DF63+, so there are three DF63+ now.

Great, that's a pretty good success rate too !!

Hopefully FTDNA will get up off their derriere and update the tree now :)
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rms2
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« Reply #92 on: July 14, 2012, 06:39:01 AM »

I wish the DF13 breakdown were a little sharper and more distinct.

One of our Germans and two of our Frenchmen got DF13+ results yesterday.

No new DF13- results.

I guess it's too much to hope for something that would make a clear distinction between L21 in the Isles and L21 on the Continent. After all, the Isles are just an insular extension of the European Continent, anyway: just a short boat ride away.

Maybe we'll start to see something as more DF13 results come in. I'm really curious to see how our Hungarian comes out.
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k.o.gran
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« Reply #93 on: July 14, 2012, 06:47:12 AM »

Hopefully FTDNA will get up off their derriere and update the tree now :)

Let's hope we get DF63 on ISOGG first! ;-)

From what I can tell, it should now be ready to be added. Not many tests were needed. We have:
N80403 - Bishop: DF13-, DF63-
Several: DF13+, DF63-
191950 - Lowden: DF13-. DF63+
All these are L21+ (L459+, Z245+).

Genetic distance between the three known DF63+ kits is:
Darke -> 26 -> Gery -> 26 -> Lowden -> 23 -> Darke.
That should cover the requirements regarding distance and number of surnames.

-Kai
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R-DF63+
jerome72
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« Reply #94 on: July 14, 2012, 07:23:44 AM »

We currently have only 2 DF13- and DF63- and there are both English! if this trend continues, it's a little surprise!
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rms2
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« Reply #95 on: July 14, 2012, 07:49:03 AM »

We currently have only 2 DF13- and DF63- and there are both English! if this trend continues, it's a little surprise!

That's a good point!

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Mark Jost
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« Reply #96 on: July 14, 2012, 11:21:50 AM »

Just a thought but the few Italian L21s would be very interesting.  They could be from sources in either France or the south Germanic speaking areas.  
I have said many times in the past that the only Italian cases interesting would be those of Argiedude, if he isn’t a recent link with Kellaway (but he didn’t respond to my requests to test some close relative in Italy) and of Soncina, if he is actually a R-L21. The others are mostly of recent French origin, etc. Anyway the very few Italian R-L21-s (if we are able to demonstrate that they are Italian ones from some centuries) do demonstrate that the migration from North-West or Central Europe to Italy simply doesn’t exist.

That is a good thought, Gioiello.

I think I will offer argiedude a DF13 test. He does have one of the weirdest L21 haplotypes ever.


Well, so much for that. My email to him bounced, and it was the only email address I had for him. The guy has a mania for privacy, so he may be hard to find again.
You tried his hotmail email account?
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148326
Pos: Z245 L459 L21 DF13**
Neg: DF23 L513 L96 L144 Z255 Z253 DF21 DF41 (Z254 P66 P314.2 M37 M222  L563 L526 L226 L195 L193 L192.1 L159.2 L130 DF63 DF5 DF49)
WTYNeg: L555 L371 (L9/L10 L370 L302/L319.1 L554 L564 L577 P69 L626 L627 L643 L679)
Heber
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« Reply #97 on: July 14, 2012, 11:39:07 AM »

Another Spaniard has ordered a DF13 test. That makes six DF13 tests pending for Spain.

Rich,
How can I view the pending list. I cannot even see my own place in the queue.


Thanks. My result is expected 8/27.

Only project admins can view the project's Pending Lab Results page.

On your own myFTDNA pages home page you can scroll down to "Pending Lab Results". Click on "Check Progress" to see what tests you have ordered and when they're due.

My own DF13 test is in Batch 472 and due 27 August 2012. I hope the result comes in sooner than that!
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Heber


 
R1b1a2a1a1b4  L459+ L21+ DF21+ DF13+ U198- U106- P66- P314.2- M37- M222- L96- L513- L48- L44- L4- L226- L2- L196- L195- L193- L192.1- L176.2- L165- L159.2- L148- L144- L130- L1-
Paternal L21* DF21


Maternal H1C1



rms2
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« Reply #98 on: July 15, 2012, 06:47:12 AM »

Just a thought but the few Italian L21s would be very interesting.  They could be from sources in either France or the south Germanic speaking areas.  
I have said many times in the past that the only Italian cases interesting would be those of Argiedude, if he isn’t a recent link with Kellaway (but he didn’t respond to my requests to test some close relative in Italy) and of Soncina, if he is actually a R-L21. The others are mostly of recent French origin, etc. Anyway the very few Italian R-L21-s (if we are able to demonstrate that they are Italian ones from some centuries) do demonstrate that the migration from North-West or Central Europe to Italy simply doesn’t exist.

That is a good thought, Gioiello.

I think I will offer argiedude a DF13 test. He does have one of the weirdest L21 haplotypes ever.


Well, so much for that. My email to him bounced, and it was the only email address I had for him. The guy has a mania for privacy, so he may be hard to find again.
You tried his hotmail email account?

Yeah, two different hotmail addresses.
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rms2
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« Reply #99 on: July 18, 2012, 08:20:23 AM »

Yesterday witnessed yet more DF13+ results: one from France (with a German surname and ancestry in Alsace), one from Spain, one from the Czech Republic, and one from Norway. The one from Norway appears to have the Scots Modal haplotype (or close) and lots of fairly close Scottish matches at 67 markers.

One thing we can say for sure within L21: DF13 is big.
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