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k.o.gran
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« Reply #125 on: July 20, 2012, 04:42:12 PM »

I wish WTY results would show up on the individual's Haplotree page and in the various arrays of SNP results that show up on GAP and public project pages.

Someone on the L21 Yahoo group said that FTDNA will add them on request as long as they are available through the advanced orders menu. I doubt they'll accept such a request from a group admin with a WTY in the group, but the tested person should be able to request it.

-Kai
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df.reynolds
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« Reply #126 on: July 20, 2012, 05:15:15 PM »

I wish WTY results would show up on the individual's Haplotree page and in the various arrays of SNP results that show up on GAP and public project pages.

Someone on the L21 Yahoo group said that FTDNA will add them on request as long as they are available through the advanced orders menu. I doubt they'll accept such a request from a group admin with a WTY in the group, but the tested person should be able to request it.

-Kai

That is correct. This is what I sent to the FTDNA Help Desk for my WTY:

Quote from: email
Would you please copy the following SNP test results from my WTY test (GRC001105) to the haplotree page in my-ftnda personal pages (kit 20437):
  L21+ L459+ L176.2- DF5+ L625+ L626+ L627+

Note that FTDNA states in writing (in the WTY FAQ) that they will not do this. When I mention this capability to people, I suggest they limit their request to those SNPs that are directly relevant to their clade--if someone comes along and demands that dozens or hundreds of results be transferred, my guess would be that we would see FTDNA eliminating this useful backdoor.

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david
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seferhabahir
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« Reply #127 on: July 20, 2012, 05:37:35 PM »

I wish WTY results would show up on the individual's Haplotree page and in the various arrays of SNP results that show up on GAP and public project pages.

Someone on the L21 Yahoo group said that FTDNA will add them on request as long as they are available through the advanced orders menu. I doubt they'll accept such a request from a group admin with a WTY in the group, but the tested person should be able to request it.

-Kai

That is correct. This is what I sent to the FTDNA Help Desk for my WTY:

Quote from: email
Would you please copy the following SNP test results from my WTY test (GRC001105) to the haplotree page in my-ftnda personal pages (kit 20437):
  L21+ L459+ L176.2- DF5+ L625+ L626+ L627+

Note that FTDNA states in writing (in the WTY FAQ) that they will not do this. When I mention this capability to people, I suggest they limit their request to those SNPs that are directly relevant to their clade--if someone comes along and demands that dozens or hundreds of results be transferred, my guess would be that we would see FTDNA eliminating this useful backdoor.

Regards,
david

I found this to be sort of a hit or miss process, in particular for negative tests. When I asked them to add L513- to my haplotree they did so, and then when I asked them to add L371- they did not. I didn't pester them about it, but at least it shows up on the L21 WTY score sheet maintained on David's web page.
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rms2
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« Reply #128 on: July 20, 2012, 06:50:00 PM »

It's interesting that thus far there have been no Irish DF13- results. There are 42 DF13+ results in the R-L21* Ireland category at the R-L21 Plus Project, and that is not counting all of the Irish guys in the various DF13+ subclades.

It would be nice if we could get the entire project tested for DF13, so that we can track the negatives.

I am also curious about Maddox in the DF13- category. My understanding is that Maddox/Mattox is a Welsh surname, yet his ancestor is listed as having been born in France. I am wondering if he was merely born in France or was actually French. Anyway, I sent an email to that member asking for some clarification.


I heard from Maddox, and his y-dna line is French. The surname is French Huguenot and was originally Motteux. Evidently it was later anglicized to Maddox and Mattox in the USA.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2012, 06:54:07 PM by rms2 » Logged

rms2
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« Reply #129 on: July 21, 2012, 10:30:39 AM »

Some DF13 and DF63 results have already come in this morning.

First off, Franklin and Leblanc (a double twofer on that, as there are two Franklins and two Leblancs who are DF13-) are DF63+ and have been moved to that category.

Second, two Germans, a Norwegian, and a Spaniard all got DF13+ results.

Third - the real earth-shaking news - , I am DF13+. Whoopee! Now we know that DF13 was present on the east bank of the Ohio River by 1804. (We were all wondering about that, I'm sure.) ;-)

Remember the "Genghis Khan Effect"? So, who was the Genghis Khan of DF13?
« Last Edit: July 21, 2012, 11:18:40 AM by rms2 » Logged

rms2
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« Reply #130 on: July 21, 2012, 10:42:44 AM »

Some DF13 and DF63 results have already come in this morning.

First off, Franklin and Leblanc (a double twofer on that, as there are two Franklins and two Leblancs who are DF13-) are DF63+ and have been moved to that category.

Second, two Germans, a Norwegian, and a Spaniard all got DF13+ results.

Third - the real earth-shaking news - , I am DF13+. Whoopee! Now we know that DF13 was present on the east bank of the Ohio River by 1804. (We were all wondering about that, I'm sure.) ;-)

Remember the "Genghis Khan Effect"? So, who was the Genghis Khan of DF13?


By the way, that was a very quick turnaround on my DF13 test. I ordered it on July 4th, but that was a big holiday here in the USA, so my sample didn't go the lab until a week later, on July 11th. Ten days total for the results. Not bad. That's the fastest turnaround time I have ever experienced for dna test results.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2012, 11:18:51 AM by rms2 » Logged

rms2
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« Reply #131 on: July 21, 2012, 10:59:04 AM »

So, I guess the big news or big mystery or both so far is that the only DF13- DF63- folks are Bishop, kit N80403 (Ysearch unknown), and Berry, kit 37201, Ysearch RQMXC. Both have ancestry in England: Bishop in London, Berry in Yorkshire.

Meadows, kit 94428, who is DF13-, is 7 off Bishop at 67 markers, so I suspect he, too, will be DF63-, but we'll see. He is awaiting DF63 results.
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seferhabahir
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« Reply #132 on: July 21, 2012, 11:20:51 AM »

Here are the asterisk and double asterisk folks that I'm aware of (as I'm defined the asterisks.) I'm including the DF13* and DF13** guys because they've actually shown great diligence in testing, particularly DF13**.
               
DF13** = DF13+ L513- DF21- DF49- Z253- Z255- DF41- L144- L371- L555-
f26059   Durall   zzzUnkOrigin
f109174   Harrington   zzzUnkOrigin
f187172   Lewis   England, South West, Wiltshire
f191494   Mann   zzzUnkOrigin
fN8772   Porter   Ireland, Ulster
f19706   Price   Wales
fN55408   Smith   zzzUnkOrigin


Mike, you can add me to the list of DF13** as my test just came back DF49- last night, making me:

DF13+ L513- DF21- DF49- Z253- Z255- DF41- L144- (L371- L555-)

f193834  Yurzditsky   Belarus

Last two tests in parentheses do show up negative in my WTY, but are not listed on my haplotree.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2012, 11:33:45 AM by seferhabahir » Logged

Y-DNA: R-L21 (Z251+ L583+)

mtDNA: J1c7a

k.o.gran
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« Reply #133 on: July 21, 2012, 12:09:04 PM »

Some DF13 and DF63 results have already come in this morning.

First off, Franklin and Leblanc (a double twofer on that, as there are two Franklins and two Leblancs who are DF13-) are DF63+ and have been moved to that category.

Actually, there are three LeBlancs in Mike's spreadsheet, the third being f202783. Even though he is a GD of 21 from DF63+ LeBlanc (f127090) and in a different variety, he does seem to share some off mode markers, namely 391, 449, 456 and 576. Significant or coincidence?

-Kai
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rms2
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« Reply #134 on: July 21, 2012, 12:23:02 PM »

Some DF13 and DF63 results have already come in this morning.

First off, Franklin and Leblanc (a double twofer on that, as there are two Franklins and two Leblancs who are DF13-) are DF63+ and have been moved to that category.

Actually, there are three LeBlancs in Mike's spreadsheet, the third being f202783. Even though he is a GD of 21 from DF63+ LeBlanc (f127090) and in a different variety, he does seem to share some off mode markers, namely 391, 449, 456 and 576. Significant or coincidence?

-Kai

That third Leblanc (kit 202783) is not in the R-L21 Plus Project, as far as I can tell. I don't see that kit number in the French Heritage Project either.

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Mark Jost
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« Reply #135 on: July 21, 2012, 12:32:27 PM »

Here are the asterisk and double asterisk folks that I'm aware of (as I'm defined the asterisks.) I'm including the DF13* and DF13** guys because they've actually shown great diligence in testing, particularly DF13**.
               
DF13** = DF13+ L513- DF21- DF49- Z253- Z255- DF41- L144- L371- L555-
f26059   Durall   zzzUnkOrigin
f109174   Harrington   zzzUnkOrigin
f187172   Lewis   England, South West, Wiltshire
f191494   Mann   zzzUnkOrigin
fN8772   Porter   Ireland, Ulster
f19706   Price   Wales
fN55408   Smith   zzzUnkOrigin


Mike, you can add me to the list of DF13** as my test just came back DF49- last night, making me:

DF13+ L513- DF21- DF49- Z253- Z255- DF41- L144- (L371- L555-)

f193834  Yurzditsky   Belarus

Last two tests in parentheses do show up negative in my WTY, but are not listed on my haplotree.

I am also WTY L371- L555- and should be a **
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148326
Pos: Z245 L459 L21 DF13**
Neg: DF23 L513 L96 L144 Z255 Z253 DF21 DF41 (Z254 P66 P314.2 M37 M222  L563 L526 L226 L195 L193 L192.1 L159.2 L130 DF63 DF5 DF49)
WTYNeg: L555 L371 (L9/L10 L370 L302/L319.1 L554 L564 L577 P69 L626 L627 L643 L679)
Jdean
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« Reply #136 on: July 21, 2012, 12:46:14 PM »

Some DF13 and DF63 results have already come in this morning.

First off, Franklin and Leblanc (a double twofer on that, as there are two Franklins and two Leblancs who are DF13-) are DF63+ and have been moved to that category.

Actually, there are three LeBlancs in Mike's spreadsheet, the third being f202783. Even though he is a GD of 21 from DF63+ LeBlanc (f127090) and in a different variety, he does seem to share some off mode markers, namely 391, 449, 456 and 576. Significant or coincidence?

-Kai

That third Leblanc (kit 202783) is not in the R-L21 Plus Project, as far as I can tell. I don't see that kit number in the French Heritage Project either.



Apparently he's Irish

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Eo´ganacht%20septs/default.aspx?section=yresults
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Ysearch 3BMC9

rms2
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« Reply #137 on: July 21, 2012, 12:53:53 PM »

Some DF13 and DF63 results have already come in this morning.

First off, Franklin and Leblanc (a double twofer on that, as there are two Franklins and two Leblancs who are DF13-) are DF63+ and have been moved to that category.

Actually, there are three LeBlancs in Mike's spreadsheet, the third being f202783. Even though he is a GD of 21 from DF63+ LeBlanc (f127090) and in a different variety, he does seem to share some off mode markers, namely 391, 449, 456 and 576. Significant or coincidence?

-Kai

That third Leblanc (kit 202783) is not in the R-L21 Plus Project, as far as I can tell. I don't see that kit number in the French Heritage Project either.



Apparently he's Irish

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Eo´ganacht%20septs/default.aspx?section=yresults


I see, thanks. The surname is Moriarty, but he lists a Pierre LeBlanc, 1475 - 1495, as ancestor. It doesn't look like he has an L21+ result yet, either, at least not from FTDNA.

I wonder why he is in that project, if he really believes his ancestor was Pierre LeBlanc.

Anyway, he is way off our DF63+ Leblancs, and lists a different mdka, anyway.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2012, 12:54:20 PM by rms2 » Logged

Dubhthach
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« Reply #138 on: July 21, 2012, 12:59:22 PM »

Some DF13 and DF63 results have already come in this morning.

First off, Franklin and Leblanc (a double twofer on that, as there are two Franklins and two Leblancs who are DF13-) are DF63+ and have been moved to that category.


Actually, there are three LeBlancs in Mike's spreadsheet, the third being f202783. Even though he is a GD of 21 from DF63+ LeBlanc (f127090) and in a different variety, he does seem to share some off mode markers, namely 391, 449, 456 and 576. Significant or coincidence?

-Kai

That third Leblanc (kit 202783) is not in the R-L21 Plus Project, as far as I can tell. I don't see that kit number in the French Heritage Project either.



Apparently he's Irish

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Eo´ganacht%20septs/default.aspx?section=yresults


I see, thanks. The surname is Moriarty, but he lists a Pierre LeBlanc, 1475 - 1495, as ancestor. It doesn't look like he has an L21+ result yet, either, at least not from FTDNA.

I wonder why he is in that project, if he really believes his ancestor was Pierre LeBlanc.

Anyway, he is way off our DF63+ Leblancs, and lists a different mdka, anyway.

Well Moriarty is a munster and Eoghanachta connected name:

Ó MUIRCHEARTAIGH—I—O Morierty, O Murtagh, Moriarty, Murtagh, Murtaugh; 'descendant of Muircheartach' (sea-director, expert navigator); the name (1) of a Kerry family who were anciently chiefs of Aos Aisde, a district lying probably along the river Mang; and (2) of a Meath family still numerous in that county and in Monaghan, where it is anglicised Murtagh. In Munster it is always anglicised Moriarty.

The project page mentions:
Eoganacht Locha Lein - O'Moriarty

As a result he may have joined purely on basis that it advertises Moriarty as one of surnames in the project. Who knows.

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rms2
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« Reply #139 on: July 21, 2012, 01:13:08 PM »

I found a Moriarty in Ysearch (N9358) who matches 202783 on the first 12 markers, anyway (it's a 12-marker entry, unfortunately). He lists a Patrick Moriarty, born about 1789 in Tralee, Ireland, as mdka.

That could be him, and he just has never updated his Ysearch entry (an all too familiar tale).

He matches the "South Irish R1b" modal in Ysearch, XREMB, on those first 12 markers. I'm not manually checking 202783 against the rest. No thanks.

I'm betting Moriarty-LeBlanc (202783) is more Moriarty than LeBlanc and is DF13+ to boot.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2012, 01:15:32 PM by rms2 » Logged

k.o.gran
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« Reply #140 on: July 21, 2012, 01:56:51 PM »

OK, thanks for checking that out for me. I've seen GDs of 26@67 markers for DF63, so I just wanted to know if there was a possible overlap into the South Irish variety or Mike's 1511-A-T2 variety. My theory was that maybe LeBlanc had been told that he matched the South Irish variety and joined a project accordingly. His listed MDKA is clearly French.

-Kai
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df.reynolds
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« Reply #141 on: July 21, 2012, 03:20:46 PM »

Bishop, kit N80403 (Ysearch unknown)

GDNM8

--david
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Mike Walsh
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« Reply #142 on: July 21, 2012, 07:48:49 PM »

Here are the asterisk and double asterisk folks that I'm aware of (as I'm defined the asterisks.) I'm including the DF13* and DF13** guys because they've actually shown great diligence in testing, particularly DF13**.
               
DF13** = DF13+ L513- DF21- DF49- Z253- Z255- DF41- L144- L371- L555-
f26059   Durall   zzzUnkOrigin
f109174   Harrington   zzzUnkOrigin
f187172   Lewis   England, South West, Wiltshire
f191494   Mann   zzzUnkOrigin
fN8772   Porter   Ireland, Ulster
f19706   Price   Wales
fN55408   Smith   zzzUnkOrigin


Mike, you can add me to the list of DF13** as my test just came back DF49- last night, making me:

DF13+ L513- DF21- DF49- Z253- Z255- DF41- L144- (L371- L555-)

f193834  Yurzditsky   Belarus

Last two tests in parentheses do show up negative in my WTY, but are not listed on my haplotree.

I am also WTY L371- L555- and should be a **

Will add the L555- in the WTY column of my internal spreadsheet so you should now show up correctly.

It is too bad FTDNA can't get the pertinent SNP results to show up in one's haplotree.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2012, 07:51:33 PM by Mikewww » Logged

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« Reply #143 on: July 21, 2012, 07:55:19 PM »

OK, thanks for checking that out for me. I've seen GDs of 26@67 markers for DF63, so I just wanted to know if there was a possible overlap into the South Irish variety or Mike's 1511-A-T2 variety. My theory was that maybe LeBlanc had been told that he matched the South Irish variety and joined a project accordingly. His listed MDKA is clearly French.

-Kai

Yes, 1511-A-T2 is a 67 STR signature that I stumbled upon that aligns with Irish Type II.  Some people call this South Irish. To be honest, I don't like the geographic association because these guys are found in a lot more places than the south of Ireland.

... but, yes, the overlap is exact.  1511-A-T2 = South Irish = Irish Type II, at least as I understand them.

I don't think these guys have anything to do with DF63 people other than they are L21+.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2012, 07:56:53 PM by Mikewww » Logged

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rms2
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« Reply #144 on: July 22, 2012, 07:38:25 AM »

There are three DF13 results I am eagerly anticipating.

1. Pais, kit 84728. He is Catalonian, and one of our DF13- guys, Roma, is also Catalonian.

2. Orbán, kit 194684. He is Hungarian and has no close matches. I am interested to see if DF13 extends that far east.

3. Loncharich, kit 142664. He is Croatian. He has no matches either, except to a member of his own family.

Note: When I say "no close matches", I am including only those at 37 and 67 markers. While 25-marker matches have the potential to mean something, that potential is only revealed by upgrading to 37 or 67 markers and beyond.

I wish we could get all the guys in the Ireland category to test for DF13. Are there any DF13- guys in Ireland? Thus far, the answer to that is no, but only 42 of them have results (not counting the Irish guys in all the DF13+ subclades).
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Peter M
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« Reply #145 on: July 22, 2012, 07:47:46 AM »

There are three DF13 results I am eagerly anticipating.

1. Pais, kit 84728. He is Catalonian, and one of our DF13- guys, Roma, is also Catalonian.

2. Orbán, kit 194684. He is Hungarian and has no close matches. I am interested to see if DF13 extends that far east.

3. Loncharich, kit 142664. He is Croatian. He has no matches either, except to a member of his own family.

Note: When I say "no close matches", I am including only those at 37 and 67 markers. While 25-marker matches have the potential to mean something, that potential is only revealed by upgrading to 37 or 67 markers and beyond.

I wish we could get all the guys in the Ireland category to test for DF13. Are there any DF13- guys in Ireland? Thus far, the answer to that is no, but only 42 of them have results (not counting the Irish guys in all the DF13+ subclades).
Please keep in mind there are a LOT of people in Hungary who have a German ancestry (mainly South-Western Germany or Schwabenland) and Croatia once was a part of Hungary.

But still an interesting test result, I guess. $:-)
« Last Edit: July 22, 2012, 07:49:24 AM by Peter M » Logged
rms2
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« Reply #146 on: July 22, 2012, 08:35:49 AM »

There are three DF13 results I am eagerly anticipating.

1. Pais, kit 84728. He is Catalonian, and one of our DF13- guys, Roma, is also Catalonian.

2. Orbán, kit 194684. He is Hungarian and has no close matches. I am interested to see if DF13 extends that far east.

3. Loncharich, kit 142664. He is Croatian. He has no matches either, except to a member of his own family.

Note: When I say "no close matches", I am including only those at 37 and 67 markers. While 25-marker matches have the potential to mean something, that potential is only revealed by upgrading to 37 or 67 markers and beyond.

I wish we could get all the guys in the Ireland category to test for DF13. Are there any DF13- guys in Ireland? Thus far, the answer to that is no, but only 42 of them have results (not counting the Irish guys in all the DF13+ subclades).
Please keep in mind there are a LOT of people in Hungary who have a German ancestry (mainly South-Western Germany or Schwabenland) and Croatia once was a part of Hungary.

But still an interesting test result, I guess. $:-)

True, but don't most of them have German surnames? Orbán looks like a non-German, Magyar surname to me, but I'm no expert on that.

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Peter M
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« Reply #147 on: July 22, 2012, 09:21:53 AM »

There are three DF13 results I am eagerly anticipating.

1. Pais, kit 84728. He is Catalonian, and one of our DF13- guys, Roma, is also Catalonian.

2. Orbán, kit 194684. He is Hungarian and has no close matches. I am interested to see if DF13 extends that far east.

3. Loncharich, kit 142664. He is Croatian. He has no matches either, except to a member of his own family.

Note: When I say "no close matches", I am including only those at 37 and 67 markers. While 25-marker matches have the potential to mean something, that potential is only revealed by upgrading to 37 or 67 markers and beyond.

I wish we could get all the guys in the Ireland category to test for DF13. Are there any DF13- guys in Ireland? Thus far, the answer to that is no, but only 42 of them have results (not counting the Irish guys in all the DF13+ subclades).
Please keep in mind there are a LOT of people in Hungary who have a German ancestry (mainly South-Western Germany or Schwabenland) and Croatia once was a part of Hungary.

But still an interesting test result, I guess. $:-)

True, but don't most of them have German surnames? Orbán looks like a non-German, Magyar surname to me, but I'm no expert on that.

Not necessarily. A lot of them came to Hungary before surnames came in use. Or they changed their name to the Hungarian equivalent of their German name. Possibly some of them even came with the Huns in the 5th century when they (the Huns) retreated from Germany.

Even today there are name signs of towns in Hungary both in Hungarian and in German or Croatian when the village has a mixed population.

Orbán doesn't sound German to me, but I would ask Tibor for an authoritative opinion.
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« Reply #148 on: July 22, 2012, 07:56:15 PM »

He's in the Hungarian Magyar DNA Project, and Tibor Feher is one of its admins, if that means anything.

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Hungarian_Magyar_Y-DNA_Project/default.aspx
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« Reply #149 on: July 22, 2012, 09:13:07 PM »

He's in the Hungarian Magyar DNA Project, and Tibor Feher is one of its admins, if that means anything.

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Hungarian_Magyar_Y-DNA_Project/default.aspx

And their project background states:

Quote
The project's aim is to test the highest possible number of Hungarian (Magyar) surnames. Our primary goal is to discover who belonged to which tribe or ethnic group when entered the Carpathian Basin. Please note that this project is only for ethnic Magyar surnames to minimize the impact of post-17th century settlement and assimilation.

-david
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