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Author Topic: Corsica and its importance as far as R1b goes  (Read 1057 times)
Mike Walsh
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« on: June 19, 2012, 04:31:16 PM »

…Their family links to Corsica could have occurred in many ways. 

Mike now that you talk about Corsica, there is something that I thought I could bring up, I noticed as I have been doing some runs with the data from Busby.et.al.2011 that Corsica in fact has the highest diversity of all R1b-M269+ in Europe, at least on that dataset, and they have a good sample size, so it’s not a fluke due to small sample size. What do you think could have cause an Island such as Corsica to have such high diversity relative to other European regions? Also, do you have any haplotypes from Corsica from the FTDNA projects; it would be interesting to see if the results are replicated on a different set of samples.

I did not bring up Corsica.  Malicvelli did. What's your point?  Are you saying R1b came from Corsica to the Pyrenees?  Are you saying that Italian R1b comes from Corsica? 

To be honest, I haven't seen the data on Corsica. I'll start a thead on it.

What do we know about Corsica's populations and what does that tell us about potential migrations and expansions for various subclades of R1b?  It seems to be hot topic.
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Mike Walsh
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« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2012, 04:35:49 PM »

This is could be pretty interesting. Richard R is working on an hypothesis and JeanL has been looking at the numbers.

If have been writing up something about R1b in the Ligurian Sea for the last month or so and will share it with all of you in the next few days or so, but it is no fluke and I'll propose a very good reason for the high diversity :)

To talk some numbers into the question, Corsica(n=13) has a mean variance of .3795 mut/marker whereas England(n=94) for example has a mean variance of 0.2837 mut/marker.

Also, do you have any haplotypes from Corsica from the FTDNA projects; it would be interesting to see if the results are replicated on a different set of samples.  

I'll look, but I don't think we have much in the DNA projects from Corsica.

I guess I better read up on the Ligures
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ligures

I see that Jean M mentions Corsica as far as R1b-U152 on her Iron Age page.

Quote from: Jean M
The distribution of the Urnfield Culture is very similar to that of the Y-DNA Haplogroup R1b-U152. The density of R1b-U152 is greatest in Northern Italy and Corsica and radiates out from there.7 A distribution in all directions from a high density centre is what we would expect if a mutation occurs with a comparatively static population. It will percolate gradually outwards from its origin point.8 The barrier of the Alps may be responsible for the highest density in this case being offset from centre. If R1b-U152 did spread initially with Urnfield, then we can be sure that later Iron Age movements by the Celts also contributed to the distribution we see today, and possibly Roman Imperial mobility and later migrations by Germani. For example some R1b-U152 appears on the map in central Anatolia, which was colonised by Gaulish Celts, known there as Galatians. (See the map below of Celtic place-names in Classical sources.)
http://www.buildinghistory.org/distantpast/ironage.shtml

Even the Stelae come in to play.

Quote from: Jean M
The idea of a circle of stones representing ancestors seems to have flowed out of the Near East in fits and starts. Slab-like, stylised anthropomorphic stelae appear in the Kemi Oba culture of the Crimea (c. 3700-2200 BC). The original context of many is lost. They seem to have been re-used as grave covers by later cultures. Yet a few sites have revealed stelae arranged in a large circle, suggesting some form of sanctuary.5 The idea seems remarkably similar to Göbekli Tepe, yet thousands of years later. From the steppe the idea of honouring the ancestors with such stelae spread to Italy, France and Iberia. See The Stelae People. Yet only in Sardinia and Corsica do such stelae occur with stone circles.
http://www.buildinghistory.org/distantpast/megaliths.shtml

Although she doesn't associate this with R1b, she also notes that the Greeks had an early influence there.

Quote from: Jean M
The expansion of the Greek world from about 800 BC to southern Italy, Sicily, Corsica, Provence and the European coast of the Black Sea seems to have left genetic traces in the spread of Y-DNA E-V13 and J2a1b1. Roy King's team stress the importance of the Greek input in Southern France, which they link to viniculture spreading from the Greek colony of Massalia.
http://www.buildinghistory.org/distantpast/earlygreeks.shtml
« Last Edit: June 19, 2012, 04:45:28 PM by Mikewww » Logged

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OConnor
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« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2012, 04:49:06 PM »

In the 1998 census, 87.1% of the population was French-born[clarification needed] with 10% (26,018) being born out of France. The majority of immigrants were from the Maghreb region, particularly Moroccans (41.9% of immigrants) but also Italians (18.7%) and Portuguese (12.3%). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corsica
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R-DF13**(L21>DF13)
M42+, M45+, M526+, M74+, M89+, M9+, M94+, P108+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, P311+, P312+, P316+, M173+, M269+, M343+, P312+, L21+, DF13+, M207+, P25+, L11+, L138+, L141+, L15+, L150+, L16+, L23+, L51+, L52+, M168+, M173+, M207+, M213+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M343+, P69+, P9.1+, P97+, PK1+, SRY10831.1+, L21+, L226-, M37-, M222-, L96-, L193-, L144-, P66-, SRY2627-, M222-, DF49-, L371-, DF41-, L513-, L555-, L1335-, L1406-, Z251-, L526-, L130-, L144-, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195-, L96-, DF21-, Z255-, DF23-, DF1-, Z253-, M37-, M65-, M73-, M18-, M126-, M153-, M160-, P66-

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JeanL
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« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2012, 04:58:19 PM »

Per Busby.et.al.2011 Table-1 here is the data from Corsica.

Corsica(n=24)

R-M269+ 14/24 or 58.33%

R-L23(xL51) 1/24 or 4.17%

R-S29 2/24 or 8.33%

R-L21(xM222) 1/24 or 4.17%

R-U152/R-S28 10/24 or 41.67%


*I actually partially descend from Corsicans, my maternal grandfather's maternal grandmother had Corzo as her maiden name, I also found the surname on my father's side. I believe my early ancestors went from Calvi, Corsica to Spain in the 1500s.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2012, 05:02:58 PM by JeanL » Logged
Mike Walsh
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« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2012, 05:03:25 PM »

Per Busby.et.al.2011 Table-1 here is the data from Corsica.

Corsica(n=24)

R-M269+ 14/24 or 58.33%

R-L23(xL51) 1/24 or 4.17%

R-S29 2/24 or 8.33%

R-L21(xM222) 1/24 or 4.17%

R-U152/R-S28 10/24 or 41.67%

Thanks. I did notice there is a lot of U152 there but other than that I didn't recognize anything unusual. I know Corsica plays an important role as the Neolithic advancedacross the Med as well as with colonizers like the Greeks. I'm interested to see what Rocca has to say.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2012, 05:40:47 PM by Mikewww » Logged

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OConnor
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« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2012, 06:02:55 PM »

It looks like everybody was in Corsica at one time or another.
 I wonder if the Vandals had some R1b  types to add to the Corsican Soup?

This map surprised me as to how far the Vandals went.
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=+vandals+map&view=detail&id=5C9D5DC83F4E04C75675500A44EF3A451AB43ADE&first=0
« Last Edit: June 19, 2012, 06:05:03 PM by OConnor » Logged

R1b1a2a1a1b4


R-DF13**(L21>DF13)
M42+, M45+, M526+, M74+, M89+, M9+, M94+, P108+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, P311+, P312+, P316+, M173+, M269+, M343+, P312+, L21+, DF13+, M207+, P25+, L11+, L138+, L141+, L15+, L150+, L16+, L23+, L51+, L52+, M168+, M173+, M207+, M213+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M343+, P69+, P9.1+, P97+, PK1+, SRY10831.1+, L21+, L226-, M37-, M222-, L96-, L193-, L144-, P66-, SRY2627-, M222-, DF49-, L371-, DF41-, L513-, L555-, L1335-, L1406-, Z251-, L526-, L130-, L144-, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195-, L96-, DF21-, Z255-, DF23-, DF1-, Z253-, M37-, M65-, M73-, M18-, M126-, M153-, M160-, P66-

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princenuadha
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« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2012, 06:49:03 PM »

This article proposes a bell beaker spread of r1b to Italy, Sardinia, and Corsica. It also talks about the scant DNA evidence that supports this.

 http://u152.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=59:u152-bell-beakers-and-urnfield-tradition-in-italy&catid=1:latest-news
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princenuadha
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« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2012, 06:50:09 PM »

My bad, I didn't realize that was rocca.
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OConnor
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« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2012, 06:41:58 AM »

After a brief occupation by the Carthaginians, colonization by the ancient Greeks, and an only slightly longer occupation by the Etruscans, it was incorporated by the Roman Republic and became with Sardinia a province of the Roman Empire

In the 5th century, the Roman Empire collapsed and the island was invaded by the Vandals, the Visigoths, the Saracens, and the Lombards. Pepin the Short, king of the Franks and Charlemagne's father, expelled the invaders and granted Corsica to Pope Stephen II through the exarchate of Ravenna (756), which was the starting point of the temporal power of the papacy.

The Genoese took possession of the island in 1347, and governed it until 1729 – interrupted only by a brief occupation by forces of a Franco-Ottoman alliance in the Invasion of Corsica (1553)

Corsica was purchased by France from the Republic of Genoa in 1764.
Corsica was incorporated into France in 1770, marking the end of Corsican sovereignty.

Following the outbreak of the French Revolution in 1789, Pasquale Paoli was able to return to Corsica from exile in Britain. In 1794 he invited British forces under Lord Hood to intervene to free Corsica from French rule. Anglo-Corsican forces drove the French from the island and established an Anglo-Corsican Kingdom. Following Spain's entry into the war the British decided to withdraw from Corsica in 1796. Corsica then returned to French rule.

In 1814, near the end of the Napoleonic Wars, the island was briefly occupied again by British troops. The Treaty of Bastia gave the British crown sovereignty over the island, but it was later repudiated by Lord Castelreagh who insisted that the island should be returned to a restored French monarchy.

After the collapse of France to the German Wehrmacht in 1940, it came under the rule of the Vichy French regime, which was collaborating with the Nazis. Prior to its use as an aircraft base to attack German-occupied Italy, it was liberated by Italian and Free French Forces shortly after the Italian armistice in 1943.

During World War II, the island was nicknamed "USS Corsica", as the United States military established 17 airfields on Corsica for American tactical bomber groups attacking targets in Italy.

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

How does one untagle this possibly large genetic mix to pick out Bell Beaker decendants?
« Last Edit: June 20, 2012, 06:44:50 AM by OConnor » Logged

R1b1a2a1a1b4


R-DF13**(L21>DF13)
M42+, M45+, M526+, M74+, M89+, M9+, M94+, P108+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, P311+, P312+, P316+, M173+, M269+, M343+, P312+, L21+, DF13+, M207+, P25+, L11+, L138+, L141+, L15+, L150+, L16+, L23+, L51+, L52+, M168+, M173+, M207+, M213+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M343+, P69+, P9.1+, P97+, PK1+, SRY10831.1+, L21+, L226-, M37-, M222-, L96-, L193-, L144-, P66-, SRY2627-, M222-, DF49-, L371-, DF41-, L513-, L555-, L1335-, L1406-, Z251-, L526-, L130-, L144-, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195-, L96-, DF21-, Z255-, DF23-, DF1-, Z253-, M37-, M65-, M73-, M18-, M126-, M153-, M160-, P66-

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Maliclavelli
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« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2012, 12:02:01 PM »

After a brief occupation by the Carthaginians, colonization by the ancient Greeks, and an only slightly longer occupation by the Etruscans, it was incorporated by the Roman Republic and became with Sardinia a province of the Roman Empire

In the 5th century, the Roman Empire collapsed and the island was invaded by the Vandals, the Visigoths, the Saracens, and the Lombards. Pepin the Short, king of the Franks and Charlemagne's father, expelled the invaders and granted Corsica to Pope Stephen II through the exarchate of Ravenna (756), which was the starting point of the temporal power of the papacy.

The Genoese took possession of the island in 1347, and governed it until 1729 – interrupted only by a brief occupation by forces of a Franco-Ottoman alliance in the Invasion of Corsica (1553)

Corsica was purchased by France from the Republic of Genoa in 1764.
Corsica was incorporated into France in 1770, marking the end of Corsican sovereignty.

Following the outbreak of the French Revolution in 1789, Pasquale Paoli was able to return to Corsica from exile in Britain. In 1794 he invited British forces under Lord Hood to intervene to free Corsica from French rule. Anglo-Corsican forces drove the French from the island and established an Anglo-Corsican Kingdom. Following Spain's entry into the war the British decided to withdraw from Corsica in 1796. Corsica then returned to French rule.

In 1814, near the end of the Napoleonic Wars, the island was briefly occupied again by British troops. The Treaty of Bastia gave the British crown sovereignty over the island, but it was later repudiated by Lord Castelreagh who insisted that the island should be returned to a restored French monarchy.

After the collapse of France to the German Wehrmacht in 1940, it came under the rule of the Vichy French regime, which was collaborating with the Nazis. Prior to its use as an aircraft base to attack German-occupied Italy, it was liberated by Italian and Free French Forces shortly after the Italian armistice in 1943.

During World War II, the island was nicknamed "USS Corsica", as the United States military established 17 airfields on Corsica for American tactical bomber groups attacking targets in Italy.

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

How does one untagle this possibly large genetic mix to pick out Bell Beaker decendants?
Then not only Irish monks, but mongrels too. I found as usual offensive these statements, found upon nothing.
I spoke of R-L23/L150+. The Corsican Luciani Orsini matches my cousin Giorgio Tognarelli who came from inhabitants of Lunigiana migrated to Montecastello (Pisa province) during the 15th century and also Mr. Guastalli who lives also to-day in Lunigiana etc.
Here Irish monks, mongrels etc. have no power.

P.S. The paper of Roy King about the Greeks in Corsica I have broken in pieces as usual many times on many forums.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2012, 12:06:28 PM by Maliclavelli » Logged

Maliclavelli


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Heber
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« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2012, 02:15:33 PM »

Corsica was a key node on the Phoenician trading network linking Antioch, Cyprus, Crete, Sicily, Cyrenia, Corsica, Cadiz, Tartessos and Cornwall.

The Phoenicians were "the great merchants" and were the main traders of Mediterranean and Atlantic silver  and copper mines in Spain, Tartessos, Rio Tinto. They traded with Celts at Tartessos for copper, silver and at Cornwall for tin. They traded raw materials (cedar, pine, metals), food (wine, spices, fish), and luxury goods (carved ivory, glass, and purple textiles) linked the middle east and asia to europe and northern Africa skilled Phoenician artisans were imported throughout the Mediteranean to aid with design and building. Their main interaction with the Celts and Bell Beakers was Cadiz, Tartessos, Rio Tinto and Huevla.

This Meditteranean route was used from the early Neolithic with the first Neolithic wave migrating to Crete and Cyprus. A recent study showed the earliest Neolithic settlements in Cyprus.

 "Here we present the recent archaeological excavation at Klimonas, which demonstrates that established villagers were living on Cyprus between 11,100 and 10,600 y ago....
 This colonization suggests well-developed maritime capabilities by the PPNA period, but also that migration from the mainland may have occurred shortly after the beginning of agriculture. "

http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2012/05/01/1201693109.abstract

http://pinterest.com/pin/32721534763179592/
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Heber


 
R1b1a2a1a1b4  L459+ L21+ DF21+ DF13+ U198- U106- P66- P314.2- M37- M222- L96- L513- L48- L44- L4- L226- L2- L196- L195- L193- L192.1- L176.2- L165- L159.2- L148- L144- L130- L1-
Paternal L21* DF21


Maternal H1C1



OConnor
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« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2012, 07:39:21 AM »

After a brief occupation by the Carthaginians, colonization by the ancient Greeks, and an only slightly longer occupation by the Etruscans, it was incorporated by the Roman Republic and became with Sardinia a province of the Roman Empire

In the 5th century, the Roman Empire collapsed and the island was invaded by the Vandals, the Visigoths, the Saracens, and the Lombards. Pepin the Short, king of the Franks and Charlemagne's father, expelled the invaders and granted Corsica to Pope Stephen II through the exarchate of Ravenna (756), which was the starting point of the temporal power of the papacy.

The Genoese took possession of the island in 1347, and governed it until 1729 – interrupted only by a brief occupation by forces of a Franco-Ottoman alliance in the Invasion of Corsica (1553)

Corsica was purchased by France from the Republic of Genoa in 1764.
Corsica was incorporated into France in 1770, marking the end of Corsican sovereignty.

Following the outbreak of the French Revolution in 1789, Pasquale Paoli was able to return to Corsica from exile in Britain. In 1794 he invited British forces under Lord Hood to intervene to free Corsica from French rule. Anglo-Corsican forces drove the French from the island and established an Anglo-Corsican Kingdom. Following Spain's entry into the war the British decided to withdraw from Corsica in 1796. Corsica then returned to French rule.

In 1814, near the end of the Napoleonic Wars, the island was briefly occupied again by British troops. The Treaty of Bastia gave the British crown sovereignty over the island, but it was later repudiated by Lord Castelreagh who insisted that the island should be returned to a restored French monarchy.

After the collapse of France to the German Wehrmacht in 1940, it came under the rule of the Vichy French regime, which was collaborating with the Nazis. Prior to its use as an aircraft base to attack German-occupied Italy, it was liberated by Italian and Free French Forces shortly after the Italian armistice in 1943.

During World War II, the island was nicknamed "USS Corsica", as the United States military established 17 airfields on Corsica for American tactical bomber groups attacking targets in Italy.

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

How does one untagle this possibly large genetic mix to pick out Bell Beaker decendants?
Then not only Irish monks, but mongrels too. I found as usual offensive these statements, found upon nothing.
I spoke of R-L23/L150+. The Corsican Luciani Orsini matches my cousin Giorgio Tognarelli who came from inhabitants of Lunigiana migrated to Montecastello (Pisa province) during the 15th century and also Mr. Guastalli who lives also to-day in Lunigiana etc.
Here Irish monks, mongrels etc. have no power.

P.S. The paper of Roy King about the Greeks in Corsica I have broken in pieces as usual many times on many forums.

This topic was started by Mikewww."Corsica and its importance as far as R1b goes"
I don't think you should be offended by my post. I am only looking at different peoples who have been to Corsica. These are not people I have dreamed up.

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R1b1a2a1a1b4


R-DF13**(L21>DF13)
M42+, M45+, M526+, M74+, M89+, M9+, M94+, P108+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, P311+, P312+, P316+, M173+, M269+, M343+, P312+, L21+, DF13+, M207+, P25+, L11+, L138+, L141+, L15+, L150+, L16+, L23+, L51+, L52+, M168+, M173+, M207+, M213+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M343+, P69+, P9.1+, P97+, PK1+, SRY10831.1+, L21+, L226-, M37-, M222-, L96-, L193-, L144-, P66-, SRY2627-, M222-, DF49-, L371-, DF41-, L513-, L555-, L1335-, L1406-, Z251-, L526-, L130-, L144-, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195-, L96-, DF21-, Z255-, DF23-, DF1-, Z253-, M37-, M65-, M73-, M18-, M126-, M153-, M160-, P66-

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OConnor
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« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2012, 02:34:11 PM »

I would like to ask if any  R-L23/L150+ are found anywhere in or near the homeland of the Vandals. They were an eastern Germanic group.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Europa_Germanen_50_n_Chr.svg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vandals

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Invasions_of_the_Roman_Empire_1.png
« Last Edit: June 25, 2012, 02:35:50 PM by OConnor » Logged

R1b1a2a1a1b4


R-DF13**(L21>DF13)
M42+, M45+, M526+, M74+, M89+, M9+, M94+, P108+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, P311+, P312+, P316+, M173+, M269+, M343+, P312+, L21+, DF13+, M207+, P25+, L11+, L138+, L141+, L15+, L150+, L16+, L23+, L51+, L52+, M168+, M173+, M207+, M213+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M343+, P69+, P9.1+, P97+, PK1+, SRY10831.1+, L21+, L226-, M37-, M222-, L96-, L193-, L144-, P66-, SRY2627-, M222-, DF49-, L371-, DF41-, L513-, L555-, L1335-, L1406-, Z251-, L526-, L130-, L144-, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195-, L96-, DF21-, Z255-, DF23-, DF1-, Z253-, M37-, M65-, M73-, M18-, M126-, M153-, M160-, P66-

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Maliclavelli
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« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2012, 03:33:30 PM »

I would like to ask if any  R-L23/L150+ are found anywhere in or near the homeland of the Vandals. They were an eastern Germanic group.

To search for the Vandals in Italy and above all hg. R-L23/L150+ does mean to be to the last resort.
1)   Vandals created a reign in North Africa and were annihilated by Byzantines and after nobody spoke of them any more (I found a probable North African R1b I supposed to be from Vandals and I spoke about it on many forums, also here, but it wasn’t R-L23).
2)   R-L23, which is my haplogroup, not only is found in places where Vandals hadn’t anything to do, but I could say linked to Etruscans (not only in Tuscany, but also in Modena province, ancient Etruscan town: see the paper of Ferri I have spoken about many times).

Last resort. Ideology. No knowledge of History, Geography, Genetics and much more.
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acekon
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« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2012, 02:36:40 AM »

I would like to ask if any  R-L23/L150+ are found anywhere in or near the homeland of the Vandals. They were an eastern Germanic group.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Europa_Germanen_50_n_Chr.svg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vandals

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Invasions_of_the_Roman_Empire_1.png

"According to some historians, the names of Silesia and the Silingi are related. Another hypothesis derives the name of the mountain and river, and hence the region, from the old Polish word "Ślągwa", meaning "humid" or "damp", reflecting the climate of the region.[8]"

"Some archaeologists and historians identify the Vandals with the Przeworsk culture, and controversy surrounds potential connections between the Vandals and another, possibly a mixture of Slavic and Germanic tribes, the Lugii (Lygier, Lugier or Lygians), which is referred to as inhabiting the area by Roman writers. Some academics believe that either Lugii was an earlier name of the Vandals, or the Vandals were part of the Lugian federation, which was composed of Germanic and Slavic tribe"

"Later, the Scythians and Celts (the tribes of Boii, Cotini and Osi[2]) are known to have played a role within the Silesian territory. Still later Germanic tribes migrated to Silesia, possibly from Northern Germany or Scandinavia."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Silesia_%28Now%29.png

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/polish/default.aspx?vgroup=polish&section=yresults

R1b1a2a1 (L23+, U106-, P312-)

199843
176123=*DOD 391*_ ysearch *99SC2*L150+ L584- L51-
166563
196634
155359
N28987
135201
N68231
N36978

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/probasco-bartoszewski-bartos/default.aspx?section=yresults

Autosomal
 kit # 176123/Dodecad_DOD #391_Silesia Poland
Latest k10a run June 12/2012

66.7%-Atlantic_Baltic
21.9%-Mediterranian
9.6%-West Asian
1.2%- Siberian
0.6%-South Asian

0.0%-Paleoafrica
0.0%-Sub_Saharan
0.0%-South_East Asian
0.0%-Red Sea
0.0%-East_Asian

#176123_99SC2_ysearch-Silesia Poland

Top 7.

1)CX94E- 67/13 Eastern Europe
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5)XQE85-67/16 Sajetowski
6)D3TNG-67/17 Skoda Croatia
7)RBNQT-67/18 Gabert Romania





« Last Edit: June 26, 2012, 03:11:24 AM by acekon » Logged

YDNA: R-Z2105* Śląsk-Polska
MtDNA: U5b2a2*Königsberg-Ostpreussen
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