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Author Topic: DF13 results  (Read 2014 times)
Dubhthach
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« Reply #25 on: June 13, 2012, 04:58:15 PM »

Isn't the whole 90% = DF13 based off 1000 genomes data? If I recall right they didn't sample anywhere on the continent. I would caution thus that perhaps 90% DF13 has a slight sample biast. Now I could be compeltely wrong. Or it could be that DF13 makes up 60-70% of actual L21 but is considerably higher in areas such as Ireland and Britain that alot of samples have some connection to.

Opinions?
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Mike Walsh
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« Reply #26 on: June 13, 2012, 05:48:48 PM »

Isn't the whole 90% = DF13 based off 1000 genomes data? If I recall right they didn't sample anywhere on the continent. I would caution thus that perhaps 90% DF13 has a slight sample biast. Now I could be compeltely wrong. Or it could be that DF13 makes up 60-70% of actual L21 but is considerably higher in areas such as Ireland and Britain that alot of samples have some connection to.

Opinions?

I agree, we don't know what the percentage will be but it is apparently fairly common. All of the major L21 subclades fall under it so it is big from that perspective if nothing else.
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R1b-L21>L513(DF1)>L705.2
Mike Walsh
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« Reply #27 on: June 13, 2012, 05:55:50 PM »

How about l21 (no star)?
I was originally tested
23andme v2 as L21
23andme v3 as L21* (upgraded)
FTDNA Deep Clade L21 (no star)
Are there many L21 (no star) out there.
Will FTDNA automatically (at not charge) upgrade the assignment to reflect DF13.
This incremental testing could go on forever!

Incremental testing can go on, and that's actually a good thing. SNPs will help us better understand the Y DNA tree and people movements.  The pioneers will pay extra, though. I don't doubt that.

Here is the way I'm using the asterisks in my spreadsheet now:

L21+ DF13- =  L21*
L21+ DF13- DF63- = L21**
DF13+ L513- DF21- DF49- Z253- Z255- = DF13*
L513- DF21- DF49- Z253- Z255- DF41- L144- L371- L555- L743- L744- L96- = DF13**

DF13** is a tough mark to achieve, but people do it. On the other hand, DF13 is kind of nice little sign post. If you are DF13- you only have to worry about DF63, at least for now.
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R1b-L21>L513(DF1)>L705.2
GregRM
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« Reply #28 on: June 13, 2012, 06:07:20 PM »

Isn't the whole 90% = DF13 based off 1000 genomes data? If I recall right they didn't sample anywhere on the continent. I would caution thus that perhaps 90% DF13 has a slight sample biast. Now I could be compeltely wrong. Or it could be that DF13 makes up 60-70% of actual L21 but is considerably higher in areas such as Ireland and Britain that alot of samples have some connection to.

Opinions?

Just to avoid any confusion, the numbers I reported at http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/RL21Project/message/7742 are based on the researcher's testing (of a larger set of NON-1000 Genomes samples); to summarize, they are:
DF13+: >=95% (read "at least 95 percent") of L21+
DF13-, DF63+:  <5%  (read "less than 5 percent") of L21+
DF13-, DF63-: <5% of L21+

Due to a number of factors, it is quite possible that the frequencies in FTDNA testing could be significantly different.
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Jdean
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« Reply #29 on: June 13, 2012, 07:17:24 PM »

Isn't the whole 90% = DF13 based off 1000 genomes data? If I recall right they didn't sample anywhere on the continent. I would caution thus that perhaps 90% DF13 has a slight sample biast. Now I could be compeltely wrong. Or it could be that DF13 makes up 60-70% of actual L21 but is considerably higher in areas such as Ireland and Britain that alot of samples have some connection to.

Opinions?

Just to avoid any confusion, the numbers I reported at http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/RL21Project/message/7742 are based on the researcher's testing (of a larger set of NON-1000 Genomes samples); to summarize, they are:
DF13+: >=95% (read "at least 95 percent") of L21+
DF13-, DF63+:  <5%  (read "less than 5 percent") of L21+
DF13-, DF63-: <5% of L21+

Due to a number of factors, it is quite possible that the frequencies in FTDNA testing could be significantly different.

Yes I remember the details of that post

So these stats did come from our illustrious anonymous researcher, very interesting.

At the moment DF13- is winning hands down but of course that could change quickly.

I just wish I could remember how many neg results we had to go through before a DF5+ turned up, I remember it took a while but then again we didn't have such a flurry of excitement then.

Last but not least a very hearty thank you to you and all your colleges who are working so hard on the 1000 genome data and elsewhere, the leaps that have been made recently are quite astounding.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2012, 07:18:18 PM by Jdean » Logged

Y-DNA R-DF49*
MtDNA J1c2e
Kit No. 117897
Ysearch 3BMC9

rms2
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« Reply #30 on: June 13, 2012, 08:52:38 PM »

Well, I see you all have been hard at discussing DF13. Anyway, I created an R-L21 (DF13-) category at the R-L21 Plus Project. I figured that would be way easier than creating an R-DF13 category or categories.
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secherbernard
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« Reply #31 on: June 15, 2012, 07:48:23 AM »

There are 8 L21+ DF13- now with two frenches: Leblanc: kit N° 127090, and Maddox kit n° 25304. I am waiting for my DF13 result.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2012, 07:55:37 AM by secherbernard » Logged

YDNA: R-DF13+ L69+ DYS464X: cccc.3
mtDNA: U6a7a1
mtDNA of my father: U5a2c
YDNA of my maternal uncle: I1*
Ysearch and Mitosearch: UE9BU
Ysearch of my maternal uncle: CEC59

Mark Jost
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« Reply #32 on: June 15, 2012, 07:58:14 AM »

There are 8 L21+ DF13- now with one french: Leblanc: kit N° 127090, and may be another french: Maddox kit n° 25304. I am waiting for my DF13 result.
I just checked Ymap and DF13 has these stat's (Recalling one negative is a P312)

count_derived: 246
count_tested: 265
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148326
Pos: Z245 L459 L21 DF13**
Neg: DF23 L513 L96 L144 Z255 Z253 DF21 DF41 (Z254 P66 P314.2 M37 M222  L563 L526 L226 L195 L193 L192.1 L159.2 L130 DF63 DF5 DF49)
WTYNeg: L555 L371 (L9/L10 L370 L302/L319.1 L554 L564 L577 P69 L626 L627 L643 L679)
Jdean
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« Reply #33 on: June 15, 2012, 09:30:23 AM »

There are 8 L21+ DF13- now with one french: Leblanc: kit N° 127090, and may be another french: Maddox kit n° 25304. I am waiting for my DF13 result.
I just checked Ymap and DF13 has these stat's (Recalling one negative is a P312)

count_derived: 246
count_tested: 265


There were 8 neg results before DF13 went on sale and there's no way (save asking Thomas) of knowing what haplogroup they are.

a Spanish and French result already though.
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Y-DNA R-DF49*
MtDNA J1c2e
Kit No. 117897
Ysearch 3BMC9

Mark Jost
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« Reply #34 on: June 15, 2012, 12:16:36 PM »

There are eight R1b1a2a1a1b4 R-L21+ DF13- shown in the R=L21 DNA Project, one P312 for sure and, I assume, the remainder are from other major Haplogroups for placement purposes?
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148326
Pos: Z245 L459 L21 DF13**
Neg: DF23 L513 L96 L144 Z255 Z253 DF21 DF41 (Z254 P66 P314.2 M37 M222  L563 L526 L226 L195 L193 L192.1 L159.2 L130 DF63 DF5 DF49)
WTYNeg: L555 L371 (L9/L10 L370 L302/L319.1 L554 L564 L577 P69 L626 L627 L643 L679)
Jdean
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« Reply #35 on: June 15, 2012, 02:48:44 PM »

There are eight R1b1a2a1a1b4 R-L21+ DF13- shown in the R=L21 DNA Project, one P312 for sure and, I assume, the remainder are from other major Haplogroups for placement purposes?

I've no idea how FTDNA plan out the tests prior to a SNP becoming available.

Before Z14 was available for order there were loads of negative results and no positives, but Z14 is downstream of Z18 and most Z18+ people are positive for it.

The negatives that you can see at Ymap for that SNP are almost all the results from before it was available.

http://ymap.ftdna.com/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse_details/hs_chrY?ref=ChrY;start=15874114;end=15874131;name=Z14;class=Sequence

Probably there are 2 L21+, DF13- people who aren't in either the L21 or P312 projects at the moment.
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Y-DNA R-DF49*
MtDNA J1c2e
Kit No. 117897
Ysearch 3BMC9

rms2
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« Reply #36 on: June 15, 2012, 06:54:20 PM »

There are 8 L21+ DF13- now with two frenches: Leblanc: kit N° 127090, and Maddox kit n° 25304. I am waiting for my DF13 result.

Add to that one Spaniard, Roma, whose ancestor came from Catalonia.
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David Mc
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« Reply #37 on: June 15, 2012, 06:59:11 PM »

McElrea is also DF13+ (FTDNA 216031; YSearch SGCKR).
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R-DF49*
rms2
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« Reply #38 on: June 15, 2012, 09:48:46 PM »

McElrea is also DF13+ (FTDNA 216031; YSearch SGCKR).

Thanks!

So far we have well over a hundred positives and only eight negatives. Since the negatives are so few compared with the positives, I created a project category for the negatives.
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NealtheRed
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« Reply #39 on: June 18, 2012, 10:28:29 PM »

McElrea is also DF13+ (FTDNA 216031; YSearch SGCKR).

Thanks!

So far we have well over a hundred positives and only eight negatives. Since the negatives are so few compared with the positives, I created a project category for the negatives.

This is not directly related to DF13, per se, since the fellow is U152+, but Colangelo (kit#223929) in the R-Z255 Project tested DF13-.

The interesting part is that he is also L159.2+, but U152+ as well.
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Y-DNA: R-Z255 (L159.2+) - Downing (Irish Sea)


MTDNA: HV4a1 - Centrella (Avellino, Italy)


Ysearch: 4PSCK



OConnor
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« Reply #40 on: June 19, 2012, 04:52:17 PM »

I would suggest re-testing..especially after the lab error I experienced.
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R1b1a2a1a1b4


R-DF13**(L21>DF13)
M42+, M45+, M526+, M74+, M89+, M9+, M94+, P108+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, P311+, P312+, P316+, M173+, M269+, M343+, P312+, L21+, DF13+, M207+, P25+, L11+, L138+, L141+, L15+, L150+, L16+, L23+, L51+, L52+, M168+, M173+, M207+, M213+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M343+, P69+, P9.1+, P97+, PK1+, SRY10831.1+, L21+, L226-, M37-, M222-, L96-, L193-, L144-, P66-, SRY2627-, M222-, DF49-, L371-, DF41-, L513-, L555-, L1335-, L1406-, Z251-, L526-, L130-, L144-, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195-, L96-, DF21-, Z255-, DF23-, DF1-, Z253-, M37-, M65-, M73-, M18-, M126-, M153-, M160-, P66-

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