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Author Topic: The site of SJAPL(San Juan Ante Portam Latinam)  (Read 588 times)
JeanL
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« on: June 01, 2012, 09:54:23 AM »

Quote from: Fernandez-Crespo.et.al.2007
San Juan ante Portam Latinam is a small rock shelter in the Basque Country (Upper Ebro Valley, Spain), dated to 3.300-3.000 cal. BC., it was excavated in 1985, 1990 and 1991. The site is a mass burial which includes at least 338 individuals of both sexes and all ages, accompanied with many stone and bone tools, as well as ornamental objects. The site is of great importance due to the evidence of projectile injuries by arrow heads detected in several individuals.

[...]

Cultural context
During the Final Neolithic and the Eneolithic there are essentially two contemporary types of burial found in the Upper Ebro Valley: caves or rock shelters and megalithic graves. It is not known why some populations decided to bury their dead in caves and not in megaliths, or vice versa. Certain authors attribute this to economical reasons and argue that it is posible that populations with low resources for constructing megaliths had to bury their dead in second importance graves; other authors prefer the hypothesis of different religious traditions within those communities (Armendáriz, 1992: 18). In both cases, they are mass burials (despite a few exceptions) that held a variable number of skeletons, usually lower than one hundred (Table 1).
The site of San Juan ante Portam Latinam contains at least 338 individuals. Within the large group of prehistorical sites located in the left bank of the Ebro river, it is the largest osteological collection of this period, and one of the most important sites in the Iberian Peninsula (Fig. 1).

The site

A) The discovery
On April 1985, an excavator disinterred a pile of skulls and bones in a track near the town of Laguardia, in Basque Country. Due to this information, a survey was conducted, which led to the beginning of an archaeological excavation. It was commanded to José Ignacio Vegas and the excavations were developed in 1985, 1990 and 1991 (Vegas et al., 1999: 32).

B) Description of the site
San Juan ante Portam Latinam is facing a south rock shelter constituted of local sandstone and clay (Fig. 2). It is almost semicircular, but its actual dimensions are impossible to determine because of the previous excavations, that cut away part of the shelter. In any case, the dimensions do not seem to have exceeded an original area of 20 m², and the average height of the shelter is 1.75 m.

C) Chronology
After the excavation of 1985, two radiocarbon dates (both around 4,000 BC) were obtained. Despite their coincidence, they seemed too old for a context without geometric microliths, so in 1990 and 1991 new samples were taken, which were sent to two separate laboratories. The new group of eight dates was quite homogeneous and more representative of the period, having an average date between 3,300 and 3,042 cal BC (Fig. 3).

[...]

Determination of sex. For the diagnosis of sex the methods used were the criterion of the Workshop of European Anthropologists (W.E.A.; Ferembach et al., 1980) and those included in the Standards for data colletion fron human skeletal remains (Buikstra and Ubelaker, 1994). The determination of sex was based on the observation of characteristics on the jaw, pelvis and skull (preferably the skull due to its good conservation) of adults and well identified adolescent children.

Therefore, the distribution of sex is predominantly male individuals (70% of the 153 individuals sexed). This is observed in all of the age categories: 72% of young adults, 67% of middle adults and similar results for older adults (Table 4).

More here: http://eaa.elte.hu/FERNANDEZ.pdf


Here is a map showing the location of SJAPL within the Basque Country context.



http://i1133.photobucket.com/albums/m582/jeanlohizun/TSPlantingaetal2012Figure-1.jpg


These are some genetic results of studies that have been done thus far.

LCT prevalence, Plantinga.et.al.2012



http://i1133.photobucket.com/albums/m582/jeanlohizun/TSPlantingaetal2012Table-3.jpg

mt-DNA, Izagirre.et.al.1999*



http://i1133.photobucket.com/albums/m582/jeanlohizun/Izagirreetal1999Table-2.jpg

*They only used RFPL analyses to determine the haplogroups. However, they published the HVR-I sequences of the 26 samples tested for LCT prevalence, the sequences can be found on the supplementary file of the study:

Here is the link: http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/vaop/ncurrent/suppinfo/ejhg2011254s1.html?url=/ejhg/journal/vaop/ncurrent/abs/ejhg2011254a.html

So, all in all, looks like the next analysis due is typing Y chromosomes for haplogroups. So if you had to make an educated guess, what do you think the haplogroup profile of these folks would look like. Take into account the cultural context, the location, the timing, and some of the genetic results thus far published.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2012, 10:07:57 AM by JeanL » Logged
alan trowel hands.
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« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2012, 10:24:56 AM »

Its a pity the date is so close to the possible time of appearance of beakers in Iberia. Jean M's Stelea people etc  and also close to the variance dates for L51.  However, it seems slightly pre-beaker and slighly pre-L51 so I am going to guess some sort of I clade. 
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palamede
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« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2012, 12:43:36 PM »


So, all in all, looks like the next analysis due is typing Y chromosomes for haplogroups. So if you had to make an educated guess, what do you think the haplogroup profile of these folks would look like. Take into account the cultural context, the location, the timing, and some of the genetic results thus far published.
JeanL
My guess is not educated. I will follow opinions of your coleric fellow countryman. guess who is he. If I understood something:

First he noticed the two sites are on Araba who is now more mixed than the other provinces of the  Basque Country and more, it is along Ebro river near Rioja plain (now famous for the wines) with  more "neolithic" haplogroups.
He noticed the lactase persistence gene is not equilibrated because there is a lack of heterozigoetous C/T. Therefore he see a recent mix of two different populations: one with LP gene T/T who would be proto-vascon R1b-P312, R1b-L21 and population moving from Med. coast towards Rioja along Ebro river with same haplogroups G2a and I2a-M26 in Languedocian Treilles cave  (3000BC) and G2a and E1b1b-V13 in Catalan Covellanner cave (  5000BC) and probably J2a.

Therefore whatever the thesis, G2a3, I2a, J2a, E1b1b could be present.  The presence or absence of R1b-P312 and subclades will decide if the Chalcolitic Bell Beaker arrival of R1b is right or wrong .  Maybe also, if very recent mixing, it could be correlation between LP gene and Y-haplogroup, the more wandering X-haplogroups in patrilocal cultures are less conclusive. .  
« Last Edit: June 01, 2012, 12:55:24 PM by palamede » Logged

Y=G2a3b1a2-L497 Wallony-Charleroi; Mt=H2a2a1 Normandy-Bray
Dodecad-DiY: E Eur 9,25% W Eur 48,48% Med 28,46% W Asia 11,70%
World9: Atl-Balt 67,61% Southern 13,23% Cauc-Gedr 12,73%
K12a: North-E 39,71% Med 37,9% Cauc 12,55% Gedr 5,78% SW Asia 2,13%
Mike Walsh
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« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2012, 02:56:36 PM »


So, all in all, looks like the next analysis due is typing Y chromosomes for haplogroups. So if you had to make an educated guess, what do you think the haplogroup profile of these folks would look like. Take into account the cultural context, the location, the timing, and some of the genetic results thus far published.
....
Therefore whatever the thesis, G2a3, I2a, J2a, E1b1b could be present.  The presence or absence of R1b-P312 and subclades will decide if the Chalcolitic Bell Beaker arrival of R1b is right or wrong .  Maybe also, if very recent mixing, it could be correlation between LP gene and Y-haplogroup, the more wandering X-haplogroups in patrilocal cultures are less conclusive. .  

I really don't know.

f R1b doesn't show up that is not conclusive.

If R1b shows up, do you think this provides credence to R1b from the west from the start of the Beaker period since they were clearly there early enough? or something else?
« Last Edit: June 01, 2012, 02:57:51 PM by Mikewww » Logged

R1b-L21>L513(DF1)>S6365>L705.2(&CTS11744,CTS6621)
JeanL
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« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2012, 05:07:20 PM »

I find SJAPL interesting because there is a sign of minor violence, and because the Upper Ebro Valley, Spain was more influenced by external sources than the inner Basque Country.

I would be greatly surprised if something like R1b-M153 shows up there, because that would definitely put some uncertainty on the TMRCA.

I do think that if R1b-P312 shows up there, it would call into question the hypothesis of Klyosov, because he puts R1b-L11 in Iberia 4850 ybp, while this would push not just R1b-L11, but R1b-P312 to 5000 ybp.

I'm also looking at this site, because given the number of remains, if we are to get anything out of the Basque Country in terms of Y-chromosome aDNA, this would be our best shot. Although I expect to have more Neolithic influences due to its position, so I wouldn't be surprised if G2a, and I2 show up there.
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rms2
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« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2012, 09:22:10 PM »

Its a pity the date is so close to the possible time of appearance of beakers in Iberia. Jean M's Stelea people etc  and also close to the variance dates for L51.  However, it seems slightly pre-beaker and slighly pre-L51 so I am going to guess some sort of I clade. 

I'm guessing G2, I2, and maybe even E1b1b.

I will go out on a limb and say no R1b will turn up there.

If some R1b is found, I'm not sure what that will signify, but it would be interesting and certainly big news.
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