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Author Topic: Who did sleep in the igloo?  (Read 774 times)
Maliclavelli
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« on: May 19, 2012, 01:01:42 PM »

The recent paper Y-chromosome analysis reveals genetic divergence and new founding
native lineages in Athapaskan- and Eskimoan-speaking populations, unfortunately not for free but with the supplements available, reports many haplotypes, in part of Native American descent, but others clearly of Western European origin. We could debate if they could be of ancient Asian origin, but it seems by the last researches that the Solutrean theory re: the origin of Native Americans is believed wrong, then we should think to a Western European origin for this hgs. E, I, J and R. Some doubt for the single H1a and N1c1.
The hg. R are all R-M269 (beyond 2 R1a1a1*) and probably of some subclades not being them either R-M269 nor R-L150. One is interesting, having DYS439=15, very rare amongst the European Y, even though diffused in Middle East but in some subclades upstream R-L11+. It is what I believe a mutation for the tangent, whereas the most part are around the modal “12”.

This is the haplotype:
DYS19=14
DYS385=11-15
DYS388=12
DYS389I=13
DYS389II=29
DYS390=24
DYS391=11
DYS392=13
DYS393=13
DYS426=12
DYS437=15
DYS438=12
DYS439=15
DYS449=19
DYS456=16
DYS458=16
DYS635=23
YGATAH4=12

On SMGF there are two haplotypes probably linked to this:
Joseph Kelsch, 1810, Rosenthal, Crimea, Ukraine, Russia:
14,24,14,10,11-16,12,12,15,13,13,29,16,9-10,11,11,24,15,19,29,15-15-16-17,11,11,19-23,16,12,12,12,12,12,11,11,23,10,13,12,29,24

and Isidro Trujillo, 1710, Santa Fe, Santa Fe, New Mexico:
13,24,14,11,11-15,12,12,15,13,13,29,16,9-10,11,11,25,15,19,30,15-15-17-17,10,11,19-25,16,14,12,12,13,12,11,13,23,10,13,12,30,24.

This haplotype seems diffused from German to Spanish people and is present in the Isles, above all with DYS439=14.

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Maliclavelli


YDNA: R-S12460


MtDNA: K1a1b1e

Maliclavelli
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« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2012, 04:50:06 AM »

The closest haplotype on YHRD is:
1 14 13 29 24 11 13 13 11,15 12 14 15 19 17 16 23 11 >>
1 of 766 Australia [Aboriginal] Australian Aboriginal Oceania / Australia

And the closest ones to this are:
14 13 29 24 11 13 13 11,15 12 13 15 19 17 16 23 11 1 >>
1 of 140 Maranhão, Brazil [Admixed] Admixed Latin America
14 13 29 24 11 13 13 11,15 12 14 15 19 17 17 23 11 1 >>
1 of 1018 United States [African American] African - Afro-American North America

What to think? If he was an European, certainly he preferred exotic women!

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Maliclavelli


YDNA: R-S12460


MtDNA: K1a1b1e

ironroad41
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« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2012, 06:54:38 AM »

I'm on your side machiavelli!  I think it is all in how you view the paths out of Africa.  If it is true that there was a land mass between Gibraltar and Africa early on then the answer appears easy to offer.  It is only if you argue that the only way out of Africa was West, that the current view prevails.
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rms2
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« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2012, 07:10:41 AM »

On my mother's side of the family there was a tradition/tall tale that my mtDNA great grandmother, whose maiden name was Nora Lancaster, was "half Indian". She did have long, straight, dark hair and "high cheekbones", after all, even though all of her children were blondes.

Well, my mtDNA haplogroup, which I acquired from her, is the pretty typically European U5a2, and my autosomal results don't show the slightest hint of Amerindian. My great grandmother was born in March of 1878. She and her husband, Sidney Richman Morris, died sometime between 1910 and 1920, leaving my grandmother and her siblings as orphans. My grandmother and her brother Doyle were raised by Lancasters. The youngest brother went to live with a paternal aunt whose married name was Waddle.

1878-1920 is close enough in time that if my great grandmother was "half Indian", it should show up in my Family Finder results.

That family legend was one of the reasons I tested both mtDNA and Family Finder.

Apparently I am about as Amerindian as Elizabeth Warren.

« Last Edit: May 20, 2012, 07:45:22 AM by rms2 » Logged

samIsaack
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« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2012, 02:25:36 PM »

On my mother's side of the family there was a tradition/tall tale that my mtDNA great grandmother, whose maiden name was Nora Lancaster, was "half Indian". She did have long, straight, dark hair and "high cheekbones", after all, even though all of her children were blondes.

Well, my mtDNA haplogroup, which I acquired from her, is the pretty typically European U5a2, and my autosomal results don't show the slightest hint of Amerindian. My great grandmother was born in March of 1878. She and her husband, Sidney Richman Morris, died sometime between 1910 and 1920, leaving my grandmother and her siblings as orphans. My grandmother and her brother Doyle were raised by Lancasters. The youngest brother went to live with a paternal aunt whose married name was Waddle.

1878-1920 is close enough in time that if my great grandmother was "half Indian", it should show up in my Family Finder results.

That family legend was one of the reasons I tested both mtDNA and Family Finder.

Apparently I am about as Amerindian as Elizabeth Warren.

Thanks for the read! I too have quite a few Native American tall tales on either side of my family. Its always funny to ask which person was specifically Native and the answer is usually a however many greats, Grandmother..Of course when you provide evidence that the person wasn't Native, it always gets pushed back further into ambiguity. This too was my main reason for testing my mtDna, which turned out to be cold resistant J1c variety of European haplogroups. I have very little faith in family lore.. especially when its as convoluted as a line that is Colonial. Cold, hard facts aren't popular, but thats the only way to go!

« Last Edit: May 20, 2012, 02:26:11 PM by samIsaack » Logged

Y-Dna: R1b-SRY2627

Mtdna: J1c8
rms2
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« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2012, 04:20:50 PM »

Below is a photo of my mtDNA great grandmother. My grandmother is sitting on her lap. The boy on the left side of the photo is my grandmother's brother, Doyle. I think the little blond girl standing is my grandmother's sister, Opal, but I am not sure. The dark-haired young girl seated on the right side of the photo is, I believe, a niece, Katie M. Morris, who lived with the family.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

The youngest brother, Buell, is not in the photo. He was born in 1908 and so had not come along yet.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2012, 04:24:31 PM by rms2 » Logged

eochaidh
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« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2012, 05:01:44 PM »

Apparently I am about as Amerindian as Elizabeth Warren.



And she's about as Amerindian as John Kerry is Irish!
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Y-DNA: R1b DF23
mtDNA: T2g
gtc
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« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2012, 03:52:55 AM »

Below is a photo of my mtDNA great grandmother. My grandmother is sitting on her lap. The boy on the left side of the photo is my grandmother's brother, Doyle. I think the little blond girl standing is my grandmother's sister, Opal, but I am not sure. The dark-haired young girl seated on the right side of the photo is, I believe, a niece, Katie M. Morris, who lived with the family.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

The youngest brother, Buell, is not in the photo. He was born in 1908 and so had not come along yet.

Whatever her ancestry, she's a good looking woman. The boys have her eyes. It's hard to tell with the girls as they appear to be squinting.
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Y-DNA: R1b-Z12* (R1b1a2a1a1a3b2b1a1a1) GGG-GF Ireland (roots reportedly Anglo-Norman)
mtDNA: I3b (FMS) Maternal lines Irish
rms2
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« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2012, 07:38:11 AM »

Below is a photo of my mtDNA great grandmother. My grandmother is sitting on her lap. The boy on the left side of the photo is my grandmother's brother, Doyle. I think the little blond girl standing is my grandmother's sister, Opal, but I am not sure. The dark-haired young girl seated on the right side of the photo is, I believe, a niece, Katie M. Morris, who lived with the family.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

The youngest brother, Buell, is not in the photo. He was born in 1908 and so had not come along yet.

Whatever her ancestry, she's a good looking woman. The boys have her eyes. It's hard to tell with the girls as they appear to be squinting.

Thanks!
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