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rms2
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« on: April 14, 2012, 06:56:53 PM »

I posted this over in the autosomal subforum, but I thought I would mention it here, both because I'm kind of excited about it and I think it is relevant.

I got another British citizen as a match (I have at least two now) on Family Finder, this one predicted to be in the range of 5th cousin to remote cousin. We have 27.22 cM in common, with the longest block being 8.07 cM.

What is interesting about this one is he is R-L21, like me, and reports many of his surname lines as coming from Shropshire in England and Montgomeryshire in Wales.

Shropshire is in the West Midlands and right on the Welsh border. I have a 65/67 y-dna match whose family is from Shropshire, and most of my close y-dna matches are either from the West Midlands or Wales or have surnames that are common in those places. So this Family Finder match is right in line with what I have been finding from my y-dna test results.

How about you? Experience anything similar?

If you haven't ordered FTDNA's Family Finder test, I really think you should. I have found it to be worth every penny I paid for it.

 
« Last Edit: April 14, 2012, 06:59:38 PM by rms2 » Logged

NealtheRed
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« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2012, 07:24:33 PM »

I posted this over in the autosomal subforum, but I thought I would mention it here, both because I'm kind of excited about it and I think it is relevant.

I got another British citizen as a match (I have at least two now) on Family Finder, this one predicted to be in the range of 5th cousin to remote cousin. We have 27.22 cM in common, with the longest block being 8.07 cM.

What is interesting about this one is he is R-L21, like me, and reports many of his surname lines as coming from Shropshire in England and Montgomeryshire in Wales.

Shropshire is in the West Midlands and right on the Welsh border. I have a 65/67 y-dna match whose family is from Shropshire, and most of my close y-dna matches are either from the West Midlands or Wales or have surnames that are common in those places. So this Family Finder match is right in line with what I have been finding from my y-dna test results.

How about you? Experience anything similar?

If you haven't ordered FTDNA's Family Finder test, I really think you should. I have found it to be worth every penny I paid for it.

 

I have net yet considered Family Finder, but what you write above is very interesting indeed! I tested with 23andMe; is it the same thing, or?
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Y-DNA: R-Z255 (L159.2+) - Downing (Irish Sea)


MTDNA: HV4a1 - Centrella (Avellino, Italy)


Ysearch: 4PSCK



rms2
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« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2012, 07:42:31 PM »

I posted this over in the autosomal subforum, but I thought I would mention it here, both because I'm kind of excited about it and I think it is relevant.

I got another British citizen as a match (I have at least two now) on Family Finder, this one predicted to be in the range of 5th cousin to remote cousin. We have 27.22 cM in common, with the longest block being 8.07 cM.

What is interesting about this one is he is R-L21, like me, and reports many of his surname lines as coming from Shropshire in England and Montgomeryshire in Wales.

Shropshire is in the West Midlands and right on the Welsh border. I have a 65/67 y-dna match whose family is from Shropshire, and most of my close y-dna matches are either from the West Midlands or Wales or have surnames that are common in those places. So this Family Finder match is right in line with what I have been finding from my y-dna test results.

How about you? Experience anything similar?

If you haven't ordered FTDNA's Family Finder test, I really think you should. I have found it to be worth every penny I paid for it.

 

I have net yet considered Family Finder, but what you write above is very interesting indeed! I tested with 23andMe; is it the same thing, or?

I believe FTDNA is allowing people to transfer their 23andMe results over to FTDNA. I'm not sure if there is a charge for that.

That transfer would get you into FTDNA's Family Finder pool for matching purposes.

I am not sure what the differences are exactly. I think 23andMe has more medical stuff and, of course, charges an annual subscription fee that FTDNA does not.
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NealtheRed
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« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2012, 08:13:08 PM »

I posted this over in the autosomal subforum, but I thought I would mention it here, both because I'm kind of excited about it and I think it is relevant.

I got another British citizen as a match (I have at least two now) on Family Finder, this one predicted to be in the range of 5th cousin to remote cousin. We have 27.22 cM in common, with the longest block being 8.07 cM.

What is interesting about this one is he is R-L21, like me, and reports many of his surname lines as coming from Shropshire in England and Montgomeryshire in Wales.

Shropshire is in the West Midlands and right on the Welsh border. I have a 65/67 y-dna match whose family is from Shropshire, and most of my close y-dna matches are either from the West Midlands or Wales or have surnames that are common in those places. So this Family Finder match is right in line with what I have been finding from my y-dna test results.

How about you? Experience anything similar?

If you haven't ordered FTDNA's Family Finder test, I really think you should. I have found it to be worth every penny I paid for it.

 

I have net yet considered Family Finder, but what you write above is very interesting indeed! I tested with 23andMe; is it the same thing, or?

I believe FTDNA is allowing people to transfer their 23andMe results over to FTDNA. I'm not sure if there is a charge for that.

That transfer would get you into FTDNA's Family Finder pool for matching purposes.

I am not sure what the differences are exactly. I think 23andMe has more medical stuff and, of course, charges an annual subscription fee that FTDNA does not.

Thanks, Rich. I'll look into transferring my results. I am sure to get some matches from the West Country, much like you.
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Y-DNA: R-Z255 (L159.2+) - Downing (Irish Sea)


MTDNA: HV4a1 - Centrella (Avellino, Italy)


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rms2
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« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2012, 08:15:29 PM »

I posted this over in the autosomal subforum, but I thought I would mention it here, both because I'm kind of excited about it and I think it is relevant.

I got another British citizen as a match (I have at least two now) on Family Finder, this one predicted to be in the range of 5th cousin to remote cousin. We have 27.22 cM in common, with the longest block being 8.07 cM.

What is interesting about this one is he is R-L21, like me, and reports many of his surname lines as coming from Shropshire in England and Montgomeryshire in Wales.

Shropshire is in the West Midlands and right on the Welsh border. I have a 65/67 y-dna match whose family is from Shropshire, and most of my close y-dna matches are either from the West Midlands or Wales or have surnames that are common in those places. So this Family Finder match is right in line with what I have been finding from my y-dna test results.

How about you? Experience anything similar?

If you haven't ordered FTDNA's Family Finder test, I really think you should. I have found it to be worth every penny I paid for it.

 

I have net yet considered Family Finder, but what you write above is very interesting indeed! I tested with 23andMe; is it the same thing, or?

I believe FTDNA is allowing people to transfer their 23andMe results over to FTDNA. I'm not sure if there is a charge for that.

That transfer would get you into FTDNA's Family Finder pool for matching purposes.

I am not sure what the differences are exactly. I think 23andMe has more medical stuff and, of course, charges an annual subscription fee that FTDNA does not.

Thanks, Rich. I'll look into transferring my results. I am sure to get some matches from the West Country, much like you.

Wouldn't it be funny if you got me as a match (you lucky devil!)? ;-)
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NealtheRed
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« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2012, 09:20:23 PM »

I posted this over in the autosomal subforum, but I thought I would mention it here, both because I'm kind of excited about it and I think it is relevant.

I got another British citizen as a match (I have at least two now) on Family Finder, this one predicted to be in the range of 5th cousin to remote cousin. We have 27.22 cM in common, with the longest block being 8.07 cM.

What is interesting about this one is he is R-L21, like me, and reports many of his surname lines as coming from Shropshire in England and Montgomeryshire in Wales.

Shropshire is in the West Midlands and right on the Welsh border. I have a 65/67 y-dna match whose family is from Shropshire, and most of my close y-dna matches are either from the West Midlands or Wales or have surnames that are common in those places. So this Family Finder match is right in line with what I have been finding from my y-dna test results.

How about you? Experience anything similar?

If you haven't ordered FTDNA's Family Finder test, I really think you should. I have found it to be worth every penny I paid for it.

 

I have net yet considered Family Finder, but what you write above is very interesting indeed! I tested with 23andMe; is it the same thing, or?

I believe FTDNA is allowing people to transfer their 23andMe results over to FTDNA. I'm not sure if there is a charge for that.

That transfer would get you into FTDNA's Family Finder pool for matching purposes.

I am not sure what the differences are exactly. I think 23andMe has more medical stuff and, of course, charges an annual subscription fee that FTDNA does not.

Thanks, Rich. I'll look into transferring my results. I am sure to get some matches from the West Country, much like you.

Wouldn't it be funny if you got me as a match (you lucky devil!)? ;-)

That would be awesome.
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Y-DNA: R-Z255 (L159.2+) - Downing (Irish Sea)


MTDNA: HV4a1 - Centrella (Avellino, Italy)


Ysearch: 4PSCK



razyn
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« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2012, 09:23:19 PM »

I did that transfer of 23andMe results to Family Finder during the rather short window after it was possible, and before the price went up.  So far, I've had a few pen pals, but the only confirmed and paper-trailed match is a 5th cousin.  This was already in TN, so we have a couple of American generations before that; and the Germanna colonies are well documented so we also pick up some mutual ancestors in the old country.  We just hopped in the car and drove to Germanna and looked our guys up in their library, it's only about 75 miles from me.

A pitfall I have run into, with very limited experience of it yet, is that a lot of the FF customers are looking for a way through their brick walls.  It's hard for the person with the match, who has a halfway decent Gedcom, to "confirm" a relationship that the (DNA) matching person doesn't know about.  None of my listed surnames show up behind the other party's brick wall.

And I've had a similar problem where my Gedcom is only halfway decent, whereas the other party's is compendious.  They are looking for a thousand names, and don't find any of them among my forty or fifty, or whatever it is.  Still, we can have a pretty decent sized DNA match.
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rms2
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« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2012, 09:35:34 PM »

I've been pretty fortunate. I've been able to extend my pedigree on a couple of lines via Family Finder. Of course, I am still hoping for a breakthrough on my surname line. That's the "Holy Grail" line for me.

That is what I got into dna testing for in the first place.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2012, 09:35:53 PM by rms2 » Logged

Heber
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« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2012, 03:56:11 AM »

I've been pretty fortunate. I've been able to extend my pedigree on a couple of lines via Family Finder. Of course, I am still hoping for a breakthrough on my surname line. That's the "Holy Grail" line for me.

That is what I got into dna testing for in the first place.
Rich,
I uploaded my 23andme results during the transfer window for $50.
I have 929 matches on 23andme and 90 on FTDNA.
I immediately got 1 second cousin, 3 third cousins and 4 named fourth cousins.
The second, a female cousin was 138 shared cm.
I  identified the second on my GEDCOMS and we shared trees.
I was introduced to the family genealogists ( her mother) who has amazing old photos relevant to my tree.
We both extended our respective trees by several hundred names.
The other close cousins had familiar surnames which appear on my Y matches and some also transferred over from 23andme. So a lot more research to do on these to identify the connection.
Several of the names are common in my ancestors home village.
This is where tools for analysis of DNA, surnames and locations becomes useful.
I could not have achieved this with Y analysis alone.
I would say that FTDNA, although a smaller autosomal database is more genealogist friendly. All the matches are identified by name and many have GEDCOMSs.
23andme have promised more ancestry friendly features which should be implemented soon.
The forums on 23andme are more active and interesting and there is the added benefit of health analysis.
The Relative Finder and Ancestry Finder and Global Similarity tools on 23andme are more powerful and I like the Halpogroup Tree Mutation Mapper for Y analysis.
There is room for both 23andme and FTDNA to innovate and the competition is good for us consumers.
That was the best $50 I have spent on DNA testing so far.

« Last Edit: April 15, 2012, 05:04:35 AM by Heber » Logged

Heber


 
R1b1a2a1a1b4  L459+ L21+ DF21+ DF13+ U198- U106- P66- P314.2- M37- M222- L96- L513- L48- L44- L4- L226- L2- L196- L195- L193- L192.1- L176.2- L165- L159.2- L148- L144- L130- L1-
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Maternal H1C1



rms2
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« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2012, 06:29:44 AM »

I agree, Heber. I almost tested with 23andMe, but I don't like the subscription fee. Besides, I am kind of a die hard FTDNA guy. I personally like Bennett Greenspan, and the services I have received from FTDNA have been top notch.

But I agree about Family Finder testing. It opens whole new vistas in terms of genealogy that one cannot get from y-dna testing alone, and I think the two can very usefully complement each other. It has been my experience that Family Finder can get one back pretty far in time. One of my matches and I discovered that our most recent common ancestor was born in 1723, for example.

I had some trepidation about Family Finder when I first ordered it. It was on sale, but $200 is still a lot of money to me. It turned out to be $200 well spent: one of the best investments I've ever made. I am extremely pleased with Family Finder, although I must warn everyone that, as with dna testing in general, there is some learning involved, and one must take some steps on his/her own to understand the data.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2012, 06:35:22 AM by rms2 » Logged

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« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2012, 07:55:24 AM »

I didn't mention this before, but my first Family Finder match with a British citizen, also in the range of 5th cousin to remote cousin, with almost the exact same amounts of matching centimorgans, had surnames in his Gedcom listed as coming from Wiltshire.

That is where my mother's surname line came from. :-)
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« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2012, 05:47:04 PM »

I just found a link on family finder that goes back 7 generations.  It is on the maternal side to a gggggggrandfather born in 1705.  The connection was in Maryland however so it doesn't get me back to England which is my most serious objective at this time.  But it does link me to a parallel family history that could yield interesting information.  It has long been a point of contention as to whether the Blandford line came from an immigrant to Massachusetts or to Maryland or both and whether they are independent or related.  Due to this new information I may be able to get the answer.  Unfortunately I have not had the time to gather the dna information from other paternal family branches that could help with this answer.  However, being only 75 more days to retirement, the current time constraint is about to change.  :-)))
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Y-DNA:  R-DF13*


Surname Project:  Blandford

Kit:  ft115893   Ysearch:  EYSPZ


Earliest Known Ancestor:  Thomas Blanford; Dorset, England; born 1648


rms2
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« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2012, 08:17:25 PM »

I just found a link on family finder that goes back 7 generations.  It is on the maternal side to a gggggggrandfather born in 1705.  The connection was in Maryland however so it doesn't get me back to England which is my most serious objective at this time.  But it does link me to a parallel family history that could yield interesting information.  It has long been a point of contention as to whether the Blandford line came from an immigrant to Massachusetts or to Maryland or both and whether they are independent or related.  Due to this new information I may be able to get the answer.  Unfortunately I have not had the time to gather the dna information from other paternal family branches that could help with this answer.  However, being only 75 more days to retirement, the current time constraint is about to change.  :-)))

Great news! Congratulations!

My British Family Finder match just joined the R-L21 Plus Project. He's in the Wales category now.
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« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2012, 08:39:29 AM »

I just got some really good news via email: one of my closest 67-marker matches (64/67) just ordered the Family Finder test.

I've mentioned him here at WFN before. His surname is a variant of my own: his is Stephens, mine is Stevens.

We can't make the paper trail connection, since I can only get back to my 3rd great grandfather, Auguston Stevens, who was born in Wheeling, West Virginia, in 1804, and he can only get back to 1789 and William Stephens, who was born in Caswell County, North Carolina.

I am guessing the mutual ancestor was probably an early English or Welsh immigrant to Virginia, but I don't know. Where I live (in Virginia) my county was just lousy with Stevens/Stephens during the 17th century. It would be funny if one of them turned out to be our immigrant ancestor.
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« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2012, 08:50:56 AM »

I just got some really good news via email: one of my closest 67-marker matches (64/67) just ordered the Family Finder test.

I've mentioned him here at WFN before. His surname is a variant of my own: his is Stephens, mine is Stevens.

We can't make the paper trail connection, since I can only get back to my 3rd great grandfather, Auguston Stevens, who was born in Wheeling, West Virginia, in 1804, and he can only get back to 1789 and William Stephens, who was born in Caswell County, North Carolina.

I am guessing the mutual ancestor was probably an early English or Welsh immigrant to Virginia, but I don't know. Where I live (in Virginia) my county was just lousy with Stevens/Stephens during the 17th century. It would be funny if one of them turned out to be our immigrant ancestor.

I should add that I realize there are no guarantees that he and I will get an autosomal, Family Finder match just because we match on our y-dna.

But I have high hopes that we will and that such a match will give us a clue as to the time frame within which our mutual Stephens/Stevens y-dna ancestor lived.

I already have confirmed one match on Family Finder with a 6th cousin who shares with me a most recent common ancestor who was born in 1723.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2012, 09:04:06 AM by rms2 » Logged

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« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2012, 07:24:03 PM »

I just got some really good news via email: one of my closest 67-marker matches (64/67) just ordered the Family Finder test.

I've mentioned him here at WFN before. His surname is a variant of my own: his is Stephens, mine is Stevens.

We can't make the paper trail connection, since I can only get back to my 3rd great grandfather, Auguston Stevens, who was born in Wheeling, West Virginia, in 1804, and he can only get back to 1789 and William Stephens, who was born in Caswell County, North Carolina.

I am guessing the mutual ancestor was probably an early English or Welsh immigrant to Virginia, but I don't know. Where I live (in Virginia) my county was just lousy with Stevens/Stephens during the 17th century. It would be funny if one of them turned out to be our immigrant ancestor.


Well, my 64/67 Stephens match has his Family Finder results. Neither of us show up as a match for the other. Apparently our shared y-dna ancestor lived so long ago that there isn't enough common autosomal dna between us to show up in Family Finder as a match.

I'm disappointed, but it does seem to indicate that the connection was pretty far back, perhaps even predating emigration from Britain.
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« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2012, 09:10:40 PM »

I'm going to have go through the same process as you, using autosomal to really pin down a close yDNA match, stuck as I am in the late 1800s.  All it could take to get that autosomal connection would be finding just one relative on either side of your trees who is one generation closer to the TRMCA, and doesn't necessarily have to be on the y-line.  No chance of that happening with either of you Stevens'/Stephens'?
« Last Edit: May 21, 2012, 09:13:13 PM by Arwunbee » Logged

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seferhabahir
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« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2012, 11:02:02 PM »

I'm going to have go through the same process as you, using autosomal to really pin down a close yDNA match, stuck as I am in the late 1800s.  All it could take to get that autosomal connection would be finding just one relative on either side of your trees who is one generation closer to the TRMCA, and doesn't necessarily have to be on the y-line.  No chance of that happening with either of you Stevens'/Stephens'?

Kabo (kit #151577 in the R-L21 Baltic Cluster) shows up in my FF as a distant cousin. I know he is L583- but might be showing up because his mtDNA is J1c5, close to my  J1c7a.

Prago (kit #99631 in the R-L21 Baltic Cluster) also shows up in my FF as a distant cousin. Prager also tested L583- and his mtDNA is K1a1b1a.

It may be that these are the only two Baltic Cluster members that tested for Family Finder. Hard to tell. All three of us have a 3+ cM match on chromosome 15, and the rest of the matches are not lined up.

I would guess if Burde (kit #201644 and the only other L583+ besides me) tested FF he would show up as a close cousin. I have around 20 FF matches with 125 or more shared cM, and around 60 FF matches with the longest shared block 15 or longer cM. Will have to go through them and see how many are men and of those how many are R1b something or other.
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mtDNA: J1c7a

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« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2012, 11:24:23 PM »

Well, my 64/67 Stephens match has his Family Finder results. Neither of us show up as a match for the other. Apparently our shared y-dna ancestor lived so long ago that there isn't enough common autosomal dna between us to show up in Family Finder as a match.

I'm disappointed, but it does seem to indicate that the connection was pretty far back, perhaps even predating emigration from Britain.

Using MarkoH's new faster mutation rate average of 0.3% has a 67 marker factor of 6.49. (3.92 factor for the 111 marker comparisons )

For two haplotypes, the
TMRCA= ((67MarkerGDs x 67markerPerMarkerRate Factor) / 2) x YrsPerGeneration

So your TMRCA =((3 x 6.49)/2) x your YrsPerGen

There is a MRCA about 9.7 generations back.  I think you told me your per generation years was pretty high, right?

I wish autosomal dna was better at finding IBD greater than five or so generations, after that far its a crap shoot at finding a real solid common ancestor.

MJost
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148326
Pos: Z245 L459 L21 DF13**
Neg: DF23 L513 L96 L144 Z255 Z253 DF21 DF41 (Z254 P66 P314.2 M37 M222  L563 L526 L226 L195 L193 L192.1 L159.2 L130 DF63 DF5 DF49)
WTYNeg: L555 L371 (L9/L10 L370 L302/L319.1 L554 L564 L577 P69 L626 L627 L643 L679)
seferhabahir
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« Reply #19 on: May 22, 2012, 09:42:36 PM »

I found one more R1b1a FF match to me on the same piece of chromosome 15 as myself, Kabo and Prago. Since there is nothing else at all in common between we three in the Baltic Cluster, now I am wondering if this snippet of chromosome 15 somehow contains a string of SNPs that indicate shared R-L21 genetics. I don't think this is the way you are supposed to use the FF results, but it is interesting data point.
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Y-DNA: R-L21 (Z251+ L583+)

mtDNA: J1c7a

Mark Jost
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« Reply #20 on: May 22, 2012, 10:19:05 PM »

I found one more R1b1a FF match to me on the same piece of chromosome 15 as myself, Kabo and Prago. Since there is nothing else at all in common between we three in the Baltic Cluster, now I am wondering if this snippet of chromosome 15 somehow contains a string of SNPs that indicate shared R-L21 genetics. I don't think this is the way you are supposed to use the FF results, but it is interesting data point.
I look for matches that are in my same haplotype and look for similar conditions. Close nit commutities could, over time keep this tight Chr segment clusters together for many generations.

I know that Chr6 has some very tight SNPs that are common between alot of people who have no known relatedness but would be classed as distant or further back. Maybe you have a chr15 baltic cluster. Unless these are very close cousins, like 2nd or third, the randomness for each pair of parents which has 4 possible combinations, and there are 22 pairs of autosomal chromosomes.  That means that we can have one of 7 x 10 to the power of 13 possible combinations from our parents. Now extend that out four generations.  I would check the length to SNP ratio and see how tight they are and if there is a very close match.

MJost
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148326
Pos: Z245 L459 L21 DF13**
Neg: DF23 L513 L96 L144 Z255 Z253 DF21 DF41 (Z254 P66 P314.2 M37 M222  L563 L526 L226 L195 L193 L192.1 L159.2 L130 DF63 DF5 DF49)
WTYNeg: L555 L371 (L9/L10 L370 L302/L319.1 L554 L564 L577 P69 L626 L627 L643 L679)
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