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Author Topic: K1a1b1e  (Read 3718 times)
Maliclavelli
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« on: May 05, 2012, 10:39:10 AM »

These are the FGS used by Behar et al. (2012b) for haplogroup K1a1b1e:

Sample Id: JQ703805
Unresolved Options:
Partial Descendants:
Private Mutations: T477C;
Topologically Missing:
Country: Scotland
Geography:
Ancestry:
Reference: Behar 2012b
Contact:
Sample Id: JQ704056
Unresolved Options:
Partial Descendants:
Private Mutations: A8521G; T16093C;
Topologically Missing:
Country: [unknown]
Geography:
Ancestry: [/clone="4529", unknown, but the mutation T16093C is also in JQ706057, probably from Siena, Tuscany]
Reference: Behar 2012b
Contact:
Sample Id: JQ704207
Unresolved Options:
Partial Descendants:
Private Mutations: C114T; G3705A;
Topologically Missing: C146T(L1'2'3'4'5'6);
Country: Ireland
Geography:
Ancestry:
Reference: Behar 2012b
Contact:
Sample Id: JQ706057
Unresolved Options:
Partial Descendants:
Private Mutations: T16093C;
Topologically Missing:
Country: Italy
Geography:
Ancestry: Italian  [clone Siena100]
Reference: Behar 2012b
Contact:
Sample Id: HQ176413
Unresolved Options:
Partial Descendants:
Private Mutations: T11204C;
Topologically Missing:
Country: [Italy]
Geography:
Ancestry:  [Italian: Gioiello Tognoni]
Reference: FamilyTreeDNA
Contact:

Conclusions: either I and this from Siena, Tuscany, are from Ireland or Scotland, or these last are from Italy. Someone could say that we all come from Stelae people and come from Russia.

This haplogroup is given about 6000 years old.
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Maliclavelli


YDNA: R-S12460


MtDNA: K1a1b1e

Maliclavelli
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« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2012, 10:47:56 AM »

Beyond the mutation of our subclade (G9932A) we have all at least one mutation, then our common ancestress could be also older than 7500 years and if we'll find someone in Portugal or along the Ocean coast, we could also think that our ancestress was with those agriculturalists from Tuscany or "Grotta delle Arene Candide".
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Maliclavelli


YDNA: R-S12460


MtDNA: K1a1b1e

Maliclavelli
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« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2012, 05:30:26 AM »

Also DQ112894, published on Ian Logan spreadsheet and belonging to K1a1b1e, is Italian:
See:  T. Kivisild et al., “The Role of Selection in the Evolution of Human Mitochondrial Genomes”, Genetics Society of America, 2006: Eu25   Italian


EF657432, published in Herrnstadt et al., Reduced-median-network analysis of complete mitochondrial DNA coding-region sequences for the major African, Asian, and European haplogroups, Am. J. Hum. Genet. 70 (5), 1152-1171 (2002), was submitted by (08-JUN-2007) Department of Biochemistry and Molecular Biology 'Ernesto Quagliariello', University of Bari, Via Orabona 4, Bari 70126, Italy.

Dear Whoknows, but who knows you?
I am not a “she” but a “he”, exactly that Gioiello Tognoni K1a1b1e. Why do a few reply to me? For many reasons.
1)   Mine are scientific observations and to reply to me one should know enough to understand what I say, and evidently there are a few, also amongst many versed in other fields, who get this (see the famous Nordtvedt, Vizachero, Klyosov, or the popular Jean Manco etc.). But I have many friends here, first of all Richard Stevens, who invited me here after my banishments from Rootsweb, Dna-forums and lastly also Dienekes and Maju evidently don’t like me much. But Richard Rocca had the intelligence to not underestimate my theories.
2)   I am Italian, Tuscan, and evidently Wasp have always some prejudice against us “pizza” and “mandolino”. They cannot say to me “mafia” because I am a Tuscan and of Sicilian I have only the wife.
3)   But the most important reason is that my theories, which I think are winning along all the line, were against the believing of all, also of the plethora of geneticists and researchers who haven’t understood anything of this stuff so far.

On SMGF there are 24 “Wasp” probably K1a1b1e like me with the mutations
16224C
16311C
16519C
73G
263G
315.1C
477C
497T

I am waiting that someone test them for the coding region. After I think that my theory shall be recognized by everyone.

On Mitosearch there are two haplotypes like these ones:
A9ZQZ, Y6FRN
16224C 16311C 16519C 73G 263G 315.1C 477C 497T

I have put XWAU7 with also 16189C.

Another haplotype with 16259Y I haven’t put on Mitosearch because the heteroplasmy isn’t considered.

These all people have an ancestry from the Isles.

To Razyn I say that what he says Jean Manco has said frequently, also lastly on Dna-forums, and asked that an answer of mine were censured (she offended me, I replied with irony), but now is searching to save her theories with these last “Italian corridor”. I am grieving at her.

About your origin (Hulan, Holan? There was a Czech poet) I’ll say something definitive next.

The haplotype of JQ704207 seems rarer, but there is also an English, probably belonging to this haplogroup, on SMGF:

        1 gatcacaggt ctatcaccct attaaccact cacgggagct ctccatgcat ttggtatttt
       61 cgtctggggg gtgtgcacgc gatagcattg cgagacgctg gagccggagc accTtatgtc
      121 gcagtatctg tctttgattc ctgccCcatc ctattattta tcgcacctac gttcaatatt

Lilian Ottaway, 1884, Woking, Surrey, England:

16184A 16224C 16311C 16519C 73G 114T 146C 263G 315.1C 497T

But probably Behar et al. were unlucky, because this haplotype is probably derived from a previous one without the back mutation in 146, then with 146T (or with a new mutation from C to T)

16184A 16224C 16311C 16519C 73G 114T 263G 315.1C 497T

Even though it is difficult to think to all these back muations, the transversion in 16184 seems very rare and happened before.

There are on SMGF 3 people : 2 Australians of British descend (Quirk) and a Pole, Wolf, of German descend, and we find this haplotype also in the core of the Bell Beaker. Difficult to say by which path.

And certainly this K1a with back mutations in 73 and 263 is noteworthy:

Mary Cain, 1830 County Mayo, Ireland:

16093Y 16224C 16311C 16519C 315.1C 497T   

And also Mary Susan Bailey, 1891, Sanford, Colorado, USA :

16224C 16311C 16519C 315.1C 497T   

See Mitosearch PESXC and also Z9F22, 4CDDS, 85ABU.

JG Weston says: “Lilian Ethel Ottoway was my grand mother, she may have been adopted”.

And of course the most interesting is 85ABU:
First Name: Pedro
Last Name: Ramiro
Year Born: About 1500
Year Died:
Country of Origin: Santa Cruz de la Salceda, Burgos, Spain

And what to think of 4CDDS?

Haplogroup:   K
Tested with:   Family Tree DNA
Contact person:   William T (Bill) Pool     Contact this user

Most distant known maternal ancestor on the direct female line
First Name:   Anne
Last Name:   Beddingfield
Year Born:   About 1855
Year Died:   
Country of Origin:   Hawkinsville ?, GA, Germany
Latitude:   33 deg 7 min N
Longitude:   84 deg 4 min W

Additional information about Maternal Line:
mother of Anne Beddingfield was a Davis, first name and date of birth unknown
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Maliclavelli


YDNA: R-S12460


MtDNA: K1a1b1e

Maliclavelli
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« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2012, 04:22:16 AM »

I am seeing now that a sample with 16184A has been tested by Behar et al. and assigned to K1a1b1, then it hasn’t the mutation of K1a1b1e:

SAMPLE ID: JQ702781
Unresolved Options:
Partial Descendants:
Private Mutations: C114T; T1717g; T14674Y; T16092C; C16184a;
Topologically Missing:
Country: Germany
Geography:
Ancestry:
Reference: Behar 2012b
Contact:

It is interesting that these sample are above all European and are also the ancestors o K1a1b1a.
A similar haplotype is probably FTDNA 118362, Helen Pursel, 1843-1910, USA.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2012, 04:35:29 AM by Maliclavelli » Logged

Maliclavelli


YDNA: R-S12460


MtDNA: K1a1b1e

Maliclavelli
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« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2012, 04:36:26 AM »

But why these haplotypes are maintained K1a1b1 with these mutations like 16184A and also 114T so diffused? Probably they too should be assigned to a subclade of K1a1b1.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2012, 12:32:27 PM by Maliclavelli » Logged

Maliclavelli


YDNA: R-S12460


MtDNA: K1a1b1e

markeey
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« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2013, 10:15:14 AM »

Hi. I just did the test. I got K1a1b1e from my mather's side. Any common results? Im from Poland.
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Maliclavelli
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« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2013, 05:42:42 AM »

Hi. I just did the test. I got K1a1b1e from my mather's side. Any common results? Im from Poland.

I’d be very glad to look at your data. Have you done an FGS or only HVRI and II? But if so, how have they understood that you are K1a1b1e? You should have the mutation 9932A.
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Maliclavelli


YDNA: R-S12460


MtDNA: K1a1b1e

Maliclavelli
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« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2014, 05:20:14 PM »

I was waiting that the unique person who matches my K1a1b1e at a GD of 1 from the FTDNA people tested, i.e. who has the haplogroup with no other mutation out of the mutation of the K1a1b1e (G9932A) and who could say something about the probable origin of this hapologroup, answered my request, but in vain.
But the publication of the samples from the HGDP has answered my question:

KJ445998(HGDP01163-Italian) Zheng Haplogroup K1a1b1e 26-APR-2014
A73G A263G C497T A750G T1189C A1438G A1811G A2706G C3107N A3480G A4769G  C7028T A8860G G9055A T9698C G9932A A10398G A10550G T11299C A11467G A11470G G11719A G11914A A12308G G12372A C14167T C14766T T14798C A15326G A15924G T16224C T16311C T16519C

and that sample is from Italy, as my hypothesis was. C3107N has no meaning of course.
 
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Maliclavelli


YDNA: R-S12460


MtDNA: K1a1b1e

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